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Poll: Who Should Be in Next Year's Rotation? VOTE FOR FIVE!
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,881
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 7, 2015 0:58:52 GMT -5
It's surprising how quickly we've reached a consensus on what I think is the clear best strategy: acquire a top-of-rotation guy, leave a spot open for Owens, Johnson, or Wright, and round out the rotation with Buchholz, Porcello, and ERod. About half the voters disagree with one of those five options and don't foresee trading Miley, but he's clearly the 6th option.
So the obvious big topic of debate is whether you go the route of free agency or trade to acquire the top arm.
The other very interesting thing, of course, is that a significant number of voters are ready to commit to Wright as a 5th starter and an even greater number don't even want him in the mix. In fact, there are more folks who want Miley in the rotation than Wright.
Wright, BTW, ranks 1st among 167 MLB starters (minimum 40 IP) in lowest LD%, and 4th in BABIP.
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Post by cologneredsox on Aug 7, 2015 4:48:35 GMT -5
While I love the topic, I thinks it's coming to soon. Let Owens and hopefully soon Johnson, too, make some starts and show, how they adjust to the league. I'd love to see at least one of them as a permanent rotation member next season along ERod, Buch, Porcello and Wright/Miley. But who knows, this could turn out to be wishful thinking in 4 weeks or even more manifest in certainty.
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Post by juniorp90 on Aug 7, 2015 8:35:36 GMT -5
My choice:
1-Chris Sale (Trade) 2-Buchholz 3-Carrasco or Bauer (Trade) 4-Eduardo Rodríguez 5-Porcello
*Miley-Wrigth-Kelly to the bullpen or trade. *Owens and Johnson another year in the minors or posible 5 spot if Porcello is gone by a trade...
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Post by jdb on Aug 7, 2015 8:47:56 GMT -5
Curious if anyone can see a staff of three LHs pitching half our games in Fenway?
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Post by daltonjones on Aug 7, 2015 9:00:29 GMT -5
I have no confidence that our Talent Evaluation will not get hosed in trade or FA. And even if they don't, I fear that there is something in the clubhouse that turns pretty good players into pumpkins (the practicing statisticians I know believe in the existence of Qualitative factors)- a culture of losing as it were.
So I have written next year off, stand pat and start the 2017 Battle for the top ten protected picks thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 7, 2015 9:06:51 GMT -5
Curious if anyone can see a staff of three LHs pitching half our games in Fenway? It's been done before with Tudor, Hurst, and Ojeda. As long as they're quality lefties I see no issue with it. There's no reason (other than a deal) why E-Rod and Owens shouldn't be occupying the same rotation at some point, and if they don't deal Miley, you have three lefties, possibly even four if Johnson gets healthy and becomes part of the picture, but I think at that point either one or two gets dealt - my preference is that Johnson and Miley get dealt.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 7, 2015 10:01:28 GMT -5
Great poll, we needed something like this. The dialogue on this board with this topic should be outstanding. I still hope we go after Cueto, he would be great in a Red Sox uniform. Agree. Sign Cueto and trade Miley for relief help. Maybe Miley-Marrero-Guerra for Kimbrel or Chapman? Put Kelly in the 'pen. The rotation becomes Cueto-Buchholz-Rodriguez-Porcello-Owens with Wright and Johnson as depth, and the bullpen is then Kimbrel/Chapman, Koji, Tazawa, Kelly, and hopefully Light, with possibly Johnson and Wright as options, and Layne, Ross, Ogando, Aro, Barnes, Younginer, Jerez, Cook, etc as depth. It seems to me that the problem the Sox have had is that basically every guy, with perhaps the exception of Koji, is slotted in one spot better than where they should be, throughout the entire pitching staff. Getting an ace starter and lights-out reliever (and moving Kelly into the bullpen as a result) suddenly makes what seems like a ton of holes disappear. It may not be "easy," and it will be expensive, but it is pretty simple.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 7, 2015 10:05:05 GMT -5
It's surprising how quickly we've reached a consensus on what I think is the clear best strategy: acquire a top-of-rotation guy, leave a spot open for Owens, Johnson, or Wright, and round out the rotation with Buchholz, Porcello, and ERod. About half the voters disagree with one of those five options and don't foresee trading Miley, but he's clearly the 6th option. So the obvious big topic of debate is whether you go the route of free agency or trade to acquire the top arm. The other very interesting thing, of course, is that a significant number of voters are ready to commit to Wright as a 5th starter and an even greater number don't even want him in the mix. In fact, there are more folks who want Miley in the rotation than Wright. Wright, BTW, ranks 1st among 167 MLB starters (minimum 40 IP) in lowest LD%, and 4th in BABIP. I seem to recall a fair "post-knuckleballer" effect in terms of next-day starter performance, too. I think that's a thing. What are the numbers for starters who followed Wright this year? Seems his presence as a 5 may make the top of the rotation even better. He certainly puts up Miley (or better) numbers at a fraction of the cost. He's definitely criminally underrated on here.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 7, 2015 10:15:59 GMT -5
My choice: 1-Chris Sale (Trade) 2-Buchholz 3-Carrasco or Bauer (Trade) 4-Eduardo Rodríguez 5-Porcello *Miley-Wrigth-Kelly to the bullpen or trade. *Owens and Johnson another year in the minors or posible 5 spot if Porcello is gone by a trade... If you're trying to get both Sale and CC/Bauer, 1) Neither Owens not Johnson will be around anymore, because they'll both need to be included to consummate those deals (within reason), or... 2) You're going to need a new SS, CF, and/or catcher. 3) I don't see any team taking Porcello unless they're dumping a Melvin Uptonesque contract on the Sox. I like the idea of trading for Bauer, actually more than CC, because at 24 I think he has room to really blossom. But I just don't see Sale as happening without a massive gutting of talent, starting with a guy like Betts or Bogaerts and including another blue-chipper (Margot?) plus a couple other guys in the top-12. That said, if the Sox could get Sale for, say, Swihart-Margot-Guerra-Johnson, I say do it. I don't like the idea of trading Swihart before we know what Vasquez can do coming off of TJ, but Sale is an animal.
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Post by jmei on Aug 7, 2015 10:40:11 GMT -5
Curious if anyone can see a staff of three LHs pitching half our games in Fenway? It's been done before with Tudor, Hurst, and Ojeda. As long as they're quality lefties I see no issue with it. There's no reason (other than a deal) why E-Rod and Owens shouldn't be occupying the same rotation at some point, and if they don't deal Miley, you have three lefties, possibly even four if Johnson gets healthy and becomes part of the picture, but I think at that point either one or two gets dealt - my preference is that Johnson and Miley get dealt. I'm of the opinion that, contrary to popular belief, the Green Monster is actually almost as friendly to LHH as it is to RHH. It gives guys like Ortiz and Adrian Gonzalez a lot of cheap wall-ball doubles that would be warning track flies in most stadiums, and while it helps dead-pull fly-ball righties with good but not elite power (think Pedroia, Mike Lowell, Cody Ross, etc.-- guys who, in a more neutral ballpark, are more prone to warning-track power), it actually hurts some RHH because it turns line-drive doubles/home runs into doubles or even singles. Think guys like Hanley who hit low-trajectory rockets (and Hanley is slow on the basepaths to boot). So the idea of having a bunch of lefties doesn't worry me too much.
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Post by jmei on Aug 7, 2015 10:50:33 GMT -5
It's surprising how quickly we've reached a consensus on what I think is the clear best strategy: acquire a top-of-rotation guy, leave a spot open for Owens, Johnson, or Wright, and round out the rotation with Buchholz, Porcello, and ERod. About half the voters disagree with one of those five options and don't foresee trading Miley, but he's clearly the 6th option. So the obvious big topic of debate is whether you go the route of free agency or trade to acquire the top arm. The other very interesting thing, of course, is that a significant number of voters are ready to commit to Wright as a 5th starter and an even greater number don't even want him in the mix. In fact, there are more folks who want Miley in the rotation than Wright. Wright, BTW, ranks 1st among 167 MLB starters (minimum 40 IP) in lowest LD%, and 4th in BABIP. I don't know that Miley is "clearly" the 6th option. Maybe things changed since you posted this, but Miley is currently the fourth highest vote-getter in the poll with 41 votes. Yes, if you add up the last two options (Johnson/Owens and Wright/Johnson/Owens), you get more than 41 (as of this post, 51), but I think that overcounts some folks who might want two of Johnson/Owens/Wright in the rotation. At the very least, I think it's close enough that I wouldn't call it a consensus. I'm not particularly impressed by 47.1 innings of a low BABIP or line drive rate, which are two of the most luck-driven stats out there for pitchers. But I agree that he's at least earned a rotation spot for the rest of the season (i.e., if Buchholz/Porcello/Johnson come back from injury this year and get slotted into the rotation, I'd keep Wright up over Kelly and Johnson (and maybe even Owens)).
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Post by jmei on Aug 7, 2015 11:02:57 GMT -5
One final note: the starting pitching depth after Wright/Johnson/Owens is pretty nonexistent. After those guys, you have maybe Matt Barnes or Joe Kelly (if they even want to try them as starters) and nothing else (though I assume they'll pick up a guy or two on a minor league deal). If you start the season with two of those first three guys in the rotation, your SP depth is dangerously thin. Even if you start the season with only one of those first three guys in the rotation, I think the SP depth starts looking a little weak, especially if Buchholz is one of their five starters. Those depth considerations are a major reason why I would prefer to have Miley start the season as the fifth starter and let injury and performance attrition open up a spot for Wright/Johnson/Owens.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 7, 2015 11:35:20 GMT -5
One final note: the starting pitching depth after Wright/Johnson/Owens is pretty nonexistent. After those guys, you have maybe Matt Barnes or Joe Kelly (if they even want to try them as starters) and nothing else (though I assume they'll pick up a guy or two on a minor league deal). If you start the season with two of those first three guys in the rotation, your SP depth is dangerously thin. Even if you start the season with only one of those first three guys in the rotation, I think the SP depth starts looking a little weak, especially if Buchholz is one of their five starters. Those depth considerations are a major reason why I would prefer to have Miley start the season as the fifth starter and let injury and performance attrition open up a spot for Wright/Johnson/Owens. I would think not a lot of teams have much depth past the 8th man in a rotation. There's always hope that Trey Ball/Ty Buttery makes a jump and can be a serviceable emergency call-up, but more than likely there are always serviceable arms floating around waiver wires or low-cost trades that can be made.
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Post by raftsox on Aug 7, 2015 11:38:46 GMT -5
It's surprising how quickly we've reached a consensus on what I think is the clear best strategy: acquire a top-of-rotation guy, leave a spot open for Owens, Johnson, or Wright, and round out the rotation with Buchholz, Porcello, and ERod. About half the voters disagree with one of those five options and don't foresee trading Miley, but he's clearly the 6th option. I fall under that category. Sign (not trade for) one of the big-namers, Buch, Porcello, ERod and one of the 3 (2 if Johnson is out). I prefer Wright starting the season with Owens in AAA as callup depth. Miley might not seem like a trade candidate, but he should have a fair amount of value this offseason as a young, mid-rotation, cost controlled option. I would aim for a very good bullpen arm. Kelly should be a bullpen arm, too. AAA starters on the 40 would be Owens and Barnes followed by maybe Johnson and probably Workman after the first month or so. This makes a solid rotation with some upside depth.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 7, 2015 11:41:25 GMT -5
One final note: the starting pitching depth after Wright/Johnson/Owens is pretty nonexistent. It's too bad Keith Couch kind of fell off a cliff.
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Post by ramireja on Aug 7, 2015 11:45:28 GMT -5
One final note: the starting pitching depth after Wright/Johnson/Owens is pretty nonexistent. After those guys, you have maybe Matt Barnes or Joe Kelly (if they even want to try them as starters) and nothing else (though I assume they'll pick up a guy or two on a minor league deal). If you start the season with two of those first three guys in the rotation, your SP depth is dangerously thin. Even if you start the season with only one of those first three guys in the rotation, I think the SP depth starts looking a little weak, especially if Buchholz is one of their five starters. Those depth considerations are a major reason why I would prefer to have Miley start the season as the fifth starter and let injury and performance attrition open up a spot for Wright/Johnson/Owens. Its a fair point, but we're talking about the 6th, 7th, and 8th guys. If you give one of those three the 5th position, and assume a Miley trade, I'm okay with the other two as the 6th and 7th guys, with depth beyond that being Kelly or a minor league free agent. Thats perfectly reasonable depth in my opinion. If one of Johnson/Owens/Wright can pitch as well as Miley in the 5th spot, and maybe even offer more upside at a lower cost, then I think that pitcher should start the year in the rotation. Sorry, just read your post a little closer....I do agree you don't want two of the three in the rotation, but I'm in favor of one of the three. I think the depth holds up ok in that case.
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Post by jmei on Aug 7, 2015 11:56:23 GMT -5
One final note: the starting pitching depth after Wright/Johnson/Owens is pretty nonexistent. After those guys, you have maybe Matt Barnes or Joe Kelly (if they even want to try them as starters) and nothing else (though I assume they'll pick up a guy or two on a minor league deal). If you start the season with two of those first three guys in the rotation, your SP depth is dangerously thin. Even if you start the season with only one of those first three guys in the rotation, I think the SP depth starts looking a little weak, especially if Buchholz is one of their five starters. Those depth considerations are a major reason why I would prefer to have Miley start the season as the fifth starter and let injury and performance attrition open up a spot for Wright/Johnson/Owens. Its a fair point, but we're talking about the 6th, 7th, and 8th guys. If you give one of those three the 5th position, and assume a Miley trade, I'm okay with the other two as the 6th and 7th guys, with depth beyond that being Kelly or a minor league free agent. Thats perfectly reasonable depth in my opinion. If one of Johnson/Owens/Wright can pitch as well as Miley in the 5th spot, and maybe even offer more upside at a lower cost, then I think that pitcher should start the year in the rotation. Sorry, just read your post a little closer....I do agree you don't want two of the three in the rotation, but I'm in favor of one of the three. I think the depth holds up ok in that case. Here's one issue: if the young guy in the rotation is not Steven Wright, that means Wright has to go in the bullpen and is less useful as a depth starter. Even knuckleballers require a start or two to stretch out from throwing 30 pitches to being a 100 pitch starter, and if one of the starters unexpectedly needs to miss a start and Wright pitched the day before, the logistics get tricky. I initially had the same thought about Kelly, but he somehow will have options left next year, so he's more easily stashed. Maybe I'm worrying a little much about depth here, but it's certainly a variable in the equation. I think you have to think that the young troika is meaningfully better than Miley (I'm skeptical) and that you can get legit value for Miley in a trade (more likely) for it to be worth going in that direction.
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Post by mandelbro on Aug 7, 2015 12:25:58 GMT -5
Lots of talk about what to do with Miley and the other lefty back of the rotation candidates. I don't that is a pressing situation at all. Miley is signed to a reasonable contract for what he does. The young guys have more to prove. If they make their case we can always move Miley a year from now.
The big question mark here is Buchholz. To recap: you have a reliable 4th/5th starter in Miley. You have an inconsistent 4th starter in Porcello whose pay dictates a spot in the rotation. You have a talented guy in Rodriguez who can be a 3rd starter for the time being and more down the road. You have Buchholz, whose peaks and valleys probably average out to being a 3rd guy on the staff, like he was in 2013. Then you have Johnson and Owens whose outcomes range from AAA material to being worthy of back of the rotation slots. Then there's Wright and Kelly.
In summary, you have eight candidates for the 3-4-5 slots in a successful Sox rotation. Meanwhile, other than Rodriguez taking the next step or Buchholz staying healthy (two plausible outcomes, but that you simply cannot bank on) you have no candidates for the 1-2 slots if you plan on being a contender next year.
So if you put Rodriguez, Porcello, Miley in the rotation, Kelly and Wright in the pen, Owens and Johnson in AAA... where does that leave Buchholz? He is the key. Do you 1) acquire one new starter and roll with Buchholz or 2) accept that you're going to have to make some rash long term decisions to shore up the staff, pick up Clay's option, trade him, and acquire two new starters?
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Post by jdb on Aug 7, 2015 12:43:56 GMT -5
I think the Sale talk is a pipe dream but Quintana probably deserves a thread in the trade forum. Law mentioned yeaterday in his chat he could be a candidate to be traded so they can fill some holes. He's on a great deL too.
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Post by soxcentral on Aug 7, 2015 12:57:17 GMT -5
It's surprising how quickly we've reached a consensus on what I think is the clear best strategy: acquire a top-of-rotation guy, leave a spot open for Owens, Johnson, or Wright, and round out the rotation with Buchholz, Porcello, and ERod. About half the voters disagree with one of those five options and don't foresee trading Miley, but he's clearly the 6th option. So the obvious big topic of debate is whether you go the route of free agency or trade to acquire the top arm. I'm pretty suprised at how many people are ok with Buchholz as the number 2 after another half season of performance.
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Post by juniorp90 on Aug 7, 2015 13:18:57 GMT -5
My choice: 1-Chris Sale (Trade) 2-Buchholz 3-Carrasco or Bauer (Trade) 4-Eduardo Rodríguez 5-Porcello *Miley-Wrigth-Kelly to the bullpen or trade. *Owens and Johnson another year in the minors or posible 5 spot if Porcello is gone by a trade... If you're trying to get both Sale and CC/Bauer, 1) Neither Owens not Johnson will be around anymore, because they'll both need to be included to consummate those deals (within reason), or... 2) You're going to need a new SS, CF, and/or catcher. 3) I don't see any team taking Porcello unless they're dumping a Melvin Uptonesque contract on the Sox. I like the idea of trading for Bauer, actually more than CC, because at 24 I think he has room to really blossom. But I just don't see Sale as happening without a massive gutting of talent, starting with a guy like Betts or Bogaerts and including another blue-chipper (Margot?) plus a couple other guys in the top-12. That said, if the Sox could get Sale for, say, Swihart-Margot-Guerra-Johnson, I say do it. I don't like the idea of trading Swihart before we know what Vasquez can do coming off of TJ, but Sale is an animal. That was just thinking about a trade Margot-Swihart-Ball-Stanquiewizc-Johnson for Sale. To be honest, to get good arms there to give good talent and having Betts, Castillo, Benintendi and Bradley Jr I think we could give to Margot. To cover the catching we can go to free agency ... Hundley, Avila ... along with Vasquez. And assuming Bauer trading, you could include a package do about Sam Travis, Chavis, etc...
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Post by telson13 on Aug 7, 2015 13:22:30 GMT -5
Its a fair point, but we're talking about the 6th, 7th, and 8th guys. If you give one of those three the 5th position, and assume a Miley trade, I'm okay with the other two as the 6th and 7th guys, with depth beyond that being Kelly or a minor league free agent. Thats perfectly reasonable depth in my opinion. If one of Johnson/Owens/Wright can pitch as well as Miley in the 5th spot, and maybe even offer more upside at a lower cost, then I think that pitcher should start the year in the rotation. Sorry, just read your post a little closer....I do agree you don't want two of the three in the rotation, but I'm in favor of one of the three. I think the depth holds up ok in that case. Here's one issue: if the young guy in the rotation is not Steven Wright, that means Wright has to go in the bullpen and is less useful as a depth starter. Even knuckleballers require a start or two to stretch out from throwing 30 pitches to being a 100 pitch starter, and if one of the starters unexpectedly needs to miss a start and Wright pitched the day before, the logistics get tricky. I initially had the same thought about Kelly, but he somehow will have options left next year, so he's more easily stashed. Maybe I'm worrying a little much about depth here, but it's certainly a variable in the equation. I think you have to think that the young troika is meaningfully better than Miley (I'm skeptical) and that you can get legit value for Miley in a trade (more likely) for it to be worth going in that direction. I think your depth point is a good one, particularly when it goes from having a solid 6-7 to just having a 6 and not much else. However, what if Miley could be packaged with an MLB-ready prospect like Marrero and a lower-level but high-upside guy like Guerra for Kimbrel? Miley's performance hasn't been anything near irreplaceable...he eats innings (which has value), but could probably be totally replaced performance-wise by any of Johnson-Owens-Wright. On the other hand, Kimbrel (or Chapman) instantly makes the bullpen very good...and reduces the usage stress on Koji and Tazawa. Innings 7-8-9 become much easier. That also shortens the time starters need to stay in the game and allows for an earlier hook. I guess I'm willing to trade some solid back-end rotation depth for a big boost in late-inning relief performance. I think an outstanding bullpen abrogates at least a fair portion of the need for an 8-deep rotation. Plus, it's easier to find a #5 starter on the waiver wire/trade market than it is a monster closer. To top it off, Miley is probably more attractive to SD than some other teams because of the favorable conditions for contact pitchers in Petco. He might also give SD more leverage in trading someone like Ross or Cashner to restock their farm system. Mostly, I just think, when the chips are down-as they are for the Sox right now-it's better to fill actual holes before worrying about potential ones. They can always stretch Barnes out (as they're doing now) and keep him as a AAA starter, and maybe try picking up a couple guys like Strailly who've had rough years. There's also the arb cuts to sort through for SP depth.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 7, 2015 13:37:14 GMT -5
If you're trying to get both Sale and CC/Bauer, 1) Neither Owens not Johnson will be around anymore, because they'll both need to be included to consummate those deals (within reason), or... 2) You're going to need a new SS, CF, and/or catcher. 3) I don't see any team taking Porcello unless they're dumping a Melvin Uptonesque contract on the Sox. I like the idea of trading for Bauer, actually more than CC, because at 24 I think he has room to really blossom. But I just don't see Sale as happening without a massive gutting of talent, starting with a guy like Betts or Bogaerts and including another blue-chipper (Margot?) plus a couple other guys in the top-12. That said, if the Sox could get Sale for, say, Swihart-Margot-Guerra-Johnson, I say do it. I don't like the idea of trading Swihart before we know what Vasquez can do coming off of TJ, but Sale is an animal. That was just thinking about a trade Margot-Swihart-Ball-Stanquiewizc-Johnson for Sale. To be honest, to get good arms there to give good talent and having Betts, Castillo, Benintendi and Bradley Jr I think we could give to Margot. To cover the catching we can go to free agency ... Hundley, Avila ... along with Vasquez. And assuming Bauer trading, you could include a package do about Sam Travis, Chavis, etc... If the White Sox took that package for Sale, I'd do it. Still hate to lose Swihart but...any trade for Sale is gonna hurt. I like Margot a lot, too...but the Sox obviously have the depth, and Benintendi (and maybe Moncada) as backup. I would **love** to see them get Bauer, but I can't imagine Travis headlining a deal does it. I think the Indians would want a blue-chipper and/or Bourne salary relief. Taking Bourne reduces the prospect cost, so maybe Travis would be enough, but then the Sox are stuck with yet another underperforming OF. Plus, although Travis doesn't have many HR, he is on pace for 50 XBH, and he's kept his OBP around .380. If the Sox plan to keep Hanley in LF, Travis is probably their 1b for 2017. Not sure how to swing a Bauer trade (JBJ plus two? He'll prob learn to hit the inside FB as soon as the deal is announced), but I think it's a great idea.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 7, 2015 16:06:49 GMT -5
One final note: the starting pitching depth after Wright/Johnson/Owens is pretty nonexistent. After those guys, you have maybe Matt Barnes or Joe Kelly (if they even want to try them as starters) and nothing else (though I assume they'll pick up a guy or two on a minor league deal). If you start the season with two of those first three guys in the rotation, your SP depth is dangerously thin. Even if you start the season with only one of those first three guys in the rotation, I think the SP depth starts looking a little weak, especially if Buchholz is one of their five starters. Those depth considerations are a major reason why I would prefer to have Miley start the season as the fifth starter and let injury and performance attrition open up a spot for Wright/Johnson/Owens. I would think not a lot of teams have much depth past the 8th man in a rotation. There's always hope that Trey Ball/Ty Buttery makes a jump and can be a serviceable emergency call-up, but more than likely there are always serviceable arms floating around waiver wires or low-cost trades that can be made. I just realized what you were saying, my apologizes. Still, I'm not too worried about the depth because of how easy it is to acquire a fill-in arm.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 7, 2015 16:13:26 GMT -5
If you're trying to get both Sale and CC/Bauer, 1) Neither Owens not Johnson will be around anymore, because they'll both need to be included to consummate those deals (within reason), or... 2) You're going to need a new SS, CF, and/or catcher. 3) I don't see any team taking Porcello unless they're dumping a Melvin Uptonesque contract on the Sox. I like the idea of trading for Bauer, actually more than CC, because at 24 I think he has room to really blossom. But I just don't see Sale as happening without a massive gutting of talent, starting with a guy like Betts or Bogaerts and including another blue-chipper (Margot?) plus a couple other guys in the top-12. That said, if the Sox could get Sale for, say, Swihart-Margot-Guerra-Johnson, I say do it. I don't like the idea of trading Swihart before we know what Vasquez can do coming off of TJ, but Sale is an animal. That was just thinking about a trade Margot-Swihart-Ball-Stanquiewizc-Johnson for Sale. To be honest, to get good arms there to give good talent and having Betts, Castillo, Benintendi and Bradley Jr I think we could give to Margot. To cover the catching we can go to free agency ... Hundley, Avila ... along with Vasquez. And assuming Bauer trading, you could include a package do about Sam Travis, Chavis, etc... If the Sox offered Swihart, Xander, Betts, Owens, Devers, and Margot I'm not sure if that is enough to move Chris Sale. He's a transcendent player. He's 26 and already has almost a 1,000 strike outs (only 4 years as a starter)
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