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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 17, 2015 6:54:04 GMT -5
He is hitting pop ups too often. (16.4%) That's his only problem. This was addressed earlier in the thread actually. Not just SSS noise, but shows an evolution that has been part of adjusting to pro ball. forum.soxprospects.com/post/162655/threadAs he said to Matt, hitting with wood for the first time took getting used to. My guess is that might be part of why they left him in Lowell until the break.
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Post by templeusox on Aug 17, 2015 7:10:19 GMT -5
The pop-up% does provide an interesting response to his BABIP issues though. Nonetheless, as long as he's maintaining that K% he can pop-up as much as he wants (to an extent).
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2015 7:15:11 GMT -5
I don't really understand what 'adjusting to wooden bats' means. It's still a bat, they swing the same way. Is it that they're heavier? Also, why isn't he in Salem yet?
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nomar
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Posts: 10,787
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Post by nomar on Aug 17, 2015 7:43:52 GMT -5
I don't really understand what 'adjusting to wooden bats' means. It's still a bat, they swing the same way. Is it that they're heavier? Also, why isn't he in Salem yet?Metal bats are lighter and have a larger barrel. But the biggest difference is in the flex of the bat. Metal bats flex and have that spring/trampoline effect and there's no energy out into the ball being lost when contact is made, whereas wood bats don't flex nearly as much and more energy is lost/wasted when contact is made. So... slower exit velocities and such. Normally someone his age has been exposed to this more than Benintendi has. Apparently talent has won out there, though.
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Post by jchang on Aug 17, 2015 8:11:40 GMT -5
Also, why isn't he in Salem yet? I think we should wait till Tues to before starting the drum beat on this
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 17, 2015 8:25:06 GMT -5
I don't really understand what 'adjusting to wooden bats' means. It's still a bat, they swing the same way. Is it that they're heavier? Also, why isn't he in Salem yet?Actually, he discusses this in the interview Matt did with him, which was put up on the news page last week. As nomar says, has a lot to do with the flex of the bat.
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Post by ethanbein on Aug 17, 2015 8:28:33 GMT -5
Worth mentioning that an adjustment was made to the college bats a few years ago to give them a coefficient of restitution ("bounce") closer to wooden bats. I'm sure there's still some adjustment needing to be made (and the interview backs that up), but it might not be as different as it used to be.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2015 8:37:42 GMT -5
I don't really understand what 'adjusting to wooden bats' means. It's still a bat, they swing the same way. Is it that they're heavier? Also, why isn't he in Salem yet?Metal bats are lighter and have a larger barrel. But the biggest difference is in the flex of the bat. Metal bats flex and have that spring/trampoline effect and there's no energy out into the ball being lost when contact is made, whereas wood bats don't flex nearly as much and more energy is lost/wasted when contact is made. So... slower exit velocities and such. Normally someone his age has been exposed to this more than Benintendi has. Apparently talent has won out there, though. I understand that, but not sure how that affects your swing. It just doesn't get hit as hard. I can't imagine having to change anything because you're using a different bat. The weight is the only thing that makes any sense to me. Getting used to the ball not being hit as hard isn't really something you can do anything about.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 17, 2015 8:43:42 GMT -5
Metal bats are lighter and have a larger barrel. But the biggest difference is in the flex of the bat. Metal bats flex and have that spring/trampoline effect and there's no energy out into the ball being lost when contact is made, whereas wood bats don't flex nearly as much and more energy is lost/wasted when contact is made. So... slower exit velocities and such. Normally someone his age has been exposed to this more than Benintendi has. Apparently talent has won out there, though. I understand that, but not sure how that affects your swing. It just doesn't get hit as hard. I can't imagine having to change anything because you're using a different bat. The weight is the only thing that makes any sense to me. Getting used to the ball not being hit as hard isn't really something you can do anything about. May not change your swing, but if you're making "great contact" on fewer pitches, you're going to need to change your approach, perhaps. And as Benintendi mentioned, the wood bat is heavier, so that is an adjustment. If you think about it, "weaker" contact + heavier bat could certainly = IFFBs, right?
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2015 8:44:13 GMT -5
Worth mentioning that an adjustment was made to the college bats a few years ago to give them a coefficient of restitution ("bounce") closer to wooden bats. I'm sure there's still some adjustment needing to be made (and the interview backs that up), but it might not be as different as it used to be. After looking it up, I found they also have a -3 rule. Length in inches minus 3 ounces is as light as they are now allowed to use in college. You can easily do the same with wooden bats. I used a 34"/31oz almost 30 years ago, not that that has anything to do with this.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Aug 17, 2015 8:45:50 GMT -5
There would be a slight timing and swing-path difference due to the weight of the bat and an even slighter one in the flex. It's conceivable that could drag the bat down the millimeters it'd take to turn a line drive into a pop-up.
But I'm still not convinced that the IFFB% is anything but noise. And I'm certainly not worried about it. We're talking the difference in a couple of pop-ups.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2015 8:46:23 GMT -5
I understand that, but not sure how that affects your swing. It just doesn't get hit as hard. I can't imagine having to change anything because you're using a different bat. The weight is the only thing that makes any sense to me. Getting used to the ball not being hit as hard isn't really something you can do anything about. May not change your swing, but if you're making "great contact" on fewer pitches, you're going to need to change your approach, perhaps. And as Benintendi mentioned, the wood bat is heavier, so that is an adjustment. If you think about it, "weaker" contact + heavier bat could certainly = IFFBs, right? Yeah, that's possible. Also, I just thought of the fact that there is a much bigger sweet spot on metal bats. That might be the biggest difference.
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Post by jmei on Aug 17, 2015 9:06:45 GMT -5
But I'm still not convinced that the IFFB% is anything but noise. And I'm certainly not worried about it. We're talking the difference in a couple of pop-ups. I'll start with the caveat that, in Benintendi's specific case, we're talking about a quarter of a season's worth of at bats (153 PAs as of this morning), and so it is tough to draw even the most tentative of conclusions for him specifically. But IFFB% has the same year-to-year correlation as slugging percentage and has a higher year-to-year correlation than, among other things, wOBA and batting average, and I wouldn't dismiss it entirely. Because it has a relatively small numerator, it is prone to noise in small samples, but I think it's a fairly useful metric to inform our evaluation of hitters.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Aug 17, 2015 9:59:52 GMT -5
But I'm still not convinced that the IFFB% is anything but noise. And I'm certainly not worried about it. We're talking the difference in a couple of pop-ups. I'll start with the caveat that, in Benintendi's specific case, we're talking about a quarter of a season's worth of at bats (153 PAs as of this morning), and so it is tough to draw even the most tentative of conclusions for him specifically. But IFFB% has the same year-to-year correlation as slugging percentage and has a higher year-to-year correlation than, among other things, wOBA and batting average, and I wouldn't dismiss it entirely. Because it has a relatively small numerator, it is prone to noise in small samples, but I think it's a fairly useful metric to inform our evaluation of hitters. Sure, but I was talking about Benintendi's specifically. I don't know at which point IFFB% stabilizes, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that it's not in the first 115 ABs of a player's pro career.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 17, 2015 10:55:49 GMT -5
Metal bats are lighter and have a larger barrel. But the biggest difference is in the flex of the bat. Metal bats flex and have that spring/trampoline effect and there's no energy out into the ball being lost when contact is made, whereas wood bats don't flex nearly as much and more energy is lost/wasted when contact is made. So... slower exit velocities and such. Normally someone his age has been exposed to this more than Benintendi has. Apparently talent has won out there, though. I understand that, but not sure how that affects your swing. It just doesn't get hit as hard. I can't imagine having to change anything because you're using a different bat. The weight is the only thing that makes any sense to me. Getting used to the ball not being hit as hard isn't really something you can do anything about. I can make a physical argument that makes good sense, I believe. You're used to locating the bat for a certain effect, say trying to get lift. The metal bat is wider, that means the change in curvature is slower from the middle of the bat to the top. There's less of an angle off the bat with that wider width at the place where you typically make contact. So, you start using wooden bats. You're still locating the bat for what you think will be the proper lift, but the angle is more pronounced where it makes contact. The result is a pop-up instead of a drive. I can draw you a picture if you'd like.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Aug 17, 2015 12:18:36 GMT -5
I understand that, but not sure how that affects your swing. It just doesn't get hit as hard. I can't imagine having to change anything because you're using a different bat. The weight is the only thing that makes any sense to me. Getting used to the ball not being hit as hard isn't really something you can do anything about. I can make a physical argument that makes good sense, I believe. You're used to locating the bat for a certain effect, say trying to get lift. The metal bat is wider, that means the change in curvature is slower from the middle of the bat to the top. There's less of an angle off the bat with that wider width at the place where you typically make contact. So, you start using wooden bats. You're still locating the bat for what you think will be the proper lift, but the angle is more pronounced where it makes contact. The result is a pop-up instead of a drive. I can draw you a picture if you'd like. LOVE IT. I bet, Norm, you are great with Venn Diagrams!
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 17, 2015 12:32:36 GMT -5
... I can draw you a picture if you'd like. They say it's worth a thousand words. Let's see.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Aug 17, 2015 15:04:42 GMT -5
Is it no longer true that when you get jammed, it's easier to get a hit with metal bat than with a wooden bat, because the metal bat does not have a sweet spot? Did this used to be true, but not survive the change in bats a few years ago?
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Post by brendan98 on Aug 17, 2015 15:21:26 GMT -5
Is it no longer true that when you get jammed, it's easier to get a hit with metal bat than with a wooden bat, because the metal bat does not have a sweet spot? Did this used to be true, but not survive the change in bats a few years ago? The the new bats used in HS & College play have to be BBCOR approved, they are dampened down from the bats from several years ago which were BESR approved bats. The difference in the bats is the exit speed which the ball comes off the bat, the BBCOR's exit speed is a little more in line with what you would see from a wood bat, however the sweet spot on a BBCOR bat is still going to be significantly larger than the average wood bat, the need to barrel the ball up with wood is not as great as it is with the BBCOR.
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Post by jrffam05 on Aug 17, 2015 15:22:19 GMT -5
I understand that, but not sure how that affects your swing. It just doesn't get hit as hard. I can't imagine having to change anything because you're using a different bat. The weight is the only thing that makes any sense to me. Getting used to the ball not being hit as hard isn't really something you can do anything about. I can make a physical argument that makes good sense, I believe. You're used to locating the bat for a certain effect, say trying to get lift. The metal bat is wider, that means the change in curvature is slower from the middle of the bat to the top. There's less of an angle off the bat with that wider width at the place where you typically make contact. So, you start using wooden bats. You're still locating the bat for what you think will be the proper lift, but the angle is more pronounced where it makes contact. The result is a pop-up instead of a drive. I can draw you a picture if you'd like. What you're saying is, it's the difference between this, And this**Difference not to scale
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2015 15:26:48 GMT -5
Is it no longer true that when you get jammed, it's easier to get a hit with metal bat than with a wooden bat, because the metal bat does not have a sweet spot? Did this used to be true, but not survive the change in bats a few years ago? The the new bats used in HS & College play have to be BBCOR approved, they are dampened down from the bats from several years ago which were BESR approved bats. The difference in the bats is the exit speed which the ball comes off the bat, the BBCOR's exit speed is a little more in line with what you would see from a wood bat, however the sweet spot on a BBCOR bat is still going to be significantly larger than the average wood bat, the need to barrel the ball up with wood is not as great as it is with the BBCOR. Also, the weight rule in NCAA is -3 now, which means you can use a wooden bat with the same length and weight. Unrelated, but I didn't realize they started making bats with bamboo. I wonder if they can make bats out of hemp?
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Post by Gwell55 on Aug 17, 2015 15:39:00 GMT -5
The the new bats used in HS & College play have to be BBCOR approved, they are dampened down from the bats from several years ago which were BESR approved bats. The difference in the bats is the exit speed which the ball comes off the bat, the BBCOR's exit speed is a little more in line with what you would see from a wood bat, however the sweet spot on a BBCOR bat is still going to be significantly larger than the average wood bat, the need to barrel the ball up with wood is not as great as it is with the BBCOR. Also, the weight rule in NCAA is -3 now, which means you can use a wooden bat with the same length and weight. Unrelated, but I didn't realize they started making bats with bamboo. I wonder if they can make bats out of hemp?Wonder if this then will bring out, when your having a Bradley day, an all new meaning to the phrase "I Lit em up today boys"!!!
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Post by michael on Aug 17, 2015 16:56:44 GMT -5
Hemp will make you bats if overused
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2015 16:59:05 GMT -5
Man, hemp isn't pot. You'd have to smoke a telephone pole sized hemp joint to feel anything.
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Post by Gwell55 on Aug 17, 2015 17:04:01 GMT -5
Man, hemp isn't pot. You'd have to smoke a telephone pole sized hemp joint to feel anything. Huh, what do ya mean??? in Idaho back in the 60-70's every Old rag of a rope in the state got used up at the University and was a heck of a lot more potent than that Idaho homegrown stuff that came in by the pound... who knew!!!
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