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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2015 21:45:36 GMT -5
I'm already reading the 80 page SABR paper linked upthread that shows (allegedly) what a savvy trader he is. How about synopsizing for us? Or, just explain how we should be thrilled over winning 91+ games in 3 of the next 14 years, with no Titles?
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danr
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Post by danr on Aug 18, 2015 21:46:09 GMT -5
For weeks dozens of us have been trying to figure out how to fix the Sox and there was very little consensus. Mostly, we scratched our collective heads about what to do about Hanley and Sandoval, a terrible bullpen and lousy starting pitching without spending a fortune on free agents or trading away the farm. It didn't seem that the team management had any better idea than most of us.
Well, folks, that's about to change. Things are going to happen. And I am all for that. I always have believed that when things are not going well, make changes even if the changes are not obviously better. Change is better than standing still.
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art
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Post by art on Aug 18, 2015 21:46:14 GMT -5
Looks like DiPoto didn't need much time to reach some major conclusions. John Henry didn't get rich by tolerating the kind of results he's gotten in the last 2 years.
According to the announcement, Cherington was offered the opportunity to stay. They must have made him an offer he had to refuse.
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Post by soxfan06 on Aug 18, 2015 21:46:29 GMT -5
I wonder what becomes of Cherington. The three last place finishes kind of make the World Series win seem like an outlier. Hopefully, he doesn't get labeled as "that guy who got lucky that one year." There are probably 15 teams in MLB which would be super happy with the best minor league system in the majors if that's the worst he does for you. Yeah, that's probably why it is rumored that the Red Sox asked him to stay on. In general I'm a fan of this hire, depending on the GM we hire. We need to go analytical with our GM. Then we can have a good balance of scouting/analytical. Also, we MUST keep Eddie Romero on.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 18, 2015 21:46:21 GMT -5
I wonder what becomes of Cherington. The three last place finishes kind of make the World Series win seem like an outlier. Hopefully, he doesn't get labeled as "that guy who got lucky that one year." I expect he'll get partial credit for the 2004, 2007 teams plus building an excellent farm system.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 18, 2015 21:47:27 GMT -5
I'm already reading the 80 page SABR paper linked upthread that shows (allegedly) what a savvy trader he is. How about synopsizing for us? Or, just explain how we should be thrilled over winning 91+ games in 3 of the next 14 years, with no Titles? Ahhh, so you have no defense of the Detroit years then? Didn't think so.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 18, 2015 21:48:15 GMT -5
Or he could have held onto those guys and traded the guys who flamed out. That was the point of my post. The most important scouting a team does is the scouting of its own kids - knowing who to sell high on and who to keep. Did I mention Lars Anderson? Also, I quite frankly don't think Ben (and I'm not a Ben hater by any means) gets big props for holding onto Xander and Mookie. Xander was a primo prospect for a couple of years before hitting the ML and Mookie's rapid ascent through the system made it clear he had a chance to be something special too. Holding onto them - barring being blown away by an offer - was an easy decision, IMO. Why do you assume that any GM in the majors would have ever given up anything whatsoever for Lars Anderson? Because other teams are stupid when we're smart? 'Cause at one time Lars was considered a potential impact bat, certainly attractive enough to be a pot sweetener in a trade. If I'm not mistaken this site had him as one of the top 2 or 3 prospects in the system at one time. I definitely remember Callis or Law having him as the top prospect in the system and BA having him as one of the top 50 or so in BB.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 18, 2015 21:48:52 GMT -5
“@redsoxstats: McAdam says on csnne that it sounds like none of Cherington’s lieutenants are staying. Total overhaul.”
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Post by jmei on Aug 18, 2015 21:49:11 GMT -5
Ahhh, so you have no defense of the Detroit years then? Didn't think so. I linked to an article you are taking too long to read. I can wait until you're finished to continue, but you did ask for a quick synopsis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 21:49:06 GMT -5
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Post by huskies15 on Aug 18, 2015 21:49:38 GMT -5
I will withhold judgement on DD, but if he hires Frank Wren as GM I will lose it. The guy traded away ATL's whole system, signed BJ Upton, and had cost the Braves any semblance of a future by the time he was fired. If DD wants to have his role for a while he will be methodical and careful about who he lays in bed with (hires as GM).
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Post by kalinis on Aug 18, 2015 21:50:00 GMT -5
ben did a great job with farm system. the problem is signings like hanley and pablo. and his pitching philosophy. dombrowski did win a title in florida then of course had to gut the whole team due to payroll issues. so he has built teams from farm up. in detroit his team was always in the hunt. yes didn't win ws but got close. cherington could of stayed elected not to, frankly dombrowski to me is just gonna be lucchino who already had final say on players anyways. i hope they keep most of there scouts and a bunch of the farm system guys. the people running it do a good job. that said we will see what happens . rumor is frank wren is fav to get gm job.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2015 21:51:01 GMT -5
Why do you assume that any GM in the majors would have ever given up anything whatsoever for Lars Anderson? Because other teams are stupid when we're smart? 'Cause at one time Lars was considered a potential impact bat, certainly attractive enough to be a pot sweetener in a trade. If I'm not mistaken this site had him as one of the top 2 or 3 prospects in the system at one time. I definitely remember Callis or Law having him as the top prospect in the system and BA having him as one of the top 50 or so in BB. Considered by some, not all. And you have no clue what GMs thought of him. You can't say he was so awesome that they were stupid to not trade him. Because if he was so awesome, they shouldn't have traded him.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 18, 2015 21:51:12 GMT -5
I don't see how this move can be viewed negatively. The last place finishes aren't becoming of a Red Sox franchise that is one of the best baseball markets MLB has. As far as BC, it appears as though he decided to leave, which IMHO means he wasn't confident to finish what he started. It appears as though he took it fairly personally, which is his right, but negates any real sympathy from me. He's had a long run of employment for one franchise, he should be very thankful for that.
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Post by kalinis on Aug 18, 2015 21:51:18 GMT -5
I will withhold judgement on DD, but if he hires Frank Wren as GM I will lose it. The guy traded away ATL's whole system, signed BJ Upton, and had cost the Braves any semblance of a future by the time he was fired. If DD wants to have his role for a while he will be methodical and careful about who he lays in bed with (hires as GM). dd will have final say on all moves. so wren or whoever he signs as gm won't be able to make moves without his say so. thats why cherington stepped down i think.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Aug 18, 2015 21:51:54 GMT -5
I expect the "I hate Larry Lucchino" crowd must be feeling a little embarrassed about now. This move really makes Lucchino look like the guy who acted as the moderator between a results-now owner and younger executives who might have wanted to take a longer view. And the guy who was willing to take the arrows from arguably the most cynically nasty press corps around.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Aug 18, 2015 21:53:45 GMT -5
For weeks dozens of us have been trying to figure out how to fix the Sox and there was very little consensus. Mostly, we scratched our collective heads about what to do about Hanley and Sandoval, a terrible bullpen and lousy starting pitching without spending a fortune on free agents or trading away the farm. It didn't seem that the team management had any better idea than most of us. Well, folks, that's about to change. Things are going to happen. And I am all for that. I always have believed that when things are not going well, make changes even if the changes are not obviously better. Change is better than standing still. This is the type of thinking that allowed Tito to be replaced by Bobby Valentine.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 18, 2015 21:53:55 GMT -5
Silver Lining Alert!!!!
It just occurred to me as I was ready to log out and go to bed: New GM (or President of BBall Ops, whatever) = new manager.
Sorry, John Farrell. Get well, pal. And take all the time you need.
It's New Manager Time! It's New Manager Time! (and it won't Terry "Hanley's our left fielder" Lovello.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 18, 2015 21:53:58 GMT -5
I will withhold judgement on DD, but if he hires Frank Wren as GM I will lose it. The guy traded away ATL's whole system, signed BJ Upton, and had cost the Braves any semblance of a future by the time he was fired. If DD wants to have his role for a while he will be methodical and careful about who he lays in bed with (hires as GM). dd will have final say on all moves. so wren or whoever he signs as gm won't be able to make moves without his say so. thats why cherington stepped down i think. Probably. That doesn't mean I want a Wren having any part of the moves here. He's only a slight step up from Towers. Team Dipoto.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Aug 18, 2015 21:55:06 GMT -5
“@redsoxstats: McAdam says on csnne that it sounds like none of Cherington’s lieutenants are staying. Total overhaul.” This sounds like a good idea. Ladies and Gentleman I give you the Baltimore Orioles Boston Red Sox.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 18, 2015 21:55:41 GMT -5
Jason Beck @beckjason 1h1 hour ago Dombrowski said two weeks ago he could build new circle of assistants at next stop. So, not expecting him to poach Tigers circle.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 18, 2015 21:55:24 GMT -5
Ahhh, so you have no defense of the Detroit years then? Didn't think so. I linked to an article you are taking too long to read. I can wait until you're finished to continue, but you did ask for a quick synopsis. Linking an article is not making an argument. You lose. Or refute my position. Seriously.
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Post by soxfan06 on Aug 18, 2015 21:56:18 GMT -5
Ahhh, so you have no defense of the Detroit years then? Didn't think so. Yes, taking the Detroit Tigers from a team that was 684-936 in the 10 years before he arrived (68.4-93.6 average) to a team that was averaged 86.2 wins a year in his last 10 years there is such a terrible job.
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Post by ethanbein on Aug 18, 2015 21:56:39 GMT -5
FWIW, I think DiPoto would be the perfect GM under Dombrowski. It seems like their strengths would compliment each other really well. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like that is too likely at this point, but it would make me feel pretty good about this move if that ends up being the case.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 18, 2015 21:57:05 GMT -5
For weeks dozens of us have been trying to figure out how to fix the Sox and there was very little consensus. Mostly, we scratched our collective heads about what to do about Hanley and Sandoval, a terrible bullpen and lousy starting pitching without spending a fortune on free agents or trading away the farm. It didn't seem that the team management had any better idea than most of us. Well, folks, that's about to change. Things are going to happen. And I am all for that. I always have believed that when things are not going well, make changes even if the changes are not obviously better. Change is better than standing still. This is the type of thinking that allowed Tito to be replaced by Bobby Valentine. Amen, brother. It can always be worse. One of life's certainties.
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