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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 21, 2015 11:23:20 GMT -5
... without changing the team's fortunes in the foreseeable future.
[moderator mode] Please don't start talking about who we might trade these guys for. That's another forum! [/end mode] The idea of this thread is for others to creat their lists of guys who appear to be valuable but superfluous.
In order of obviousness or clarity.
1. Wade Miley. You have to acquire a frontline starter, and the clear consensus among us is that it's Miley he supplants. That leaves you with a rotation of X, Buchholz, Porcello, Rodriguez, and either a) Wright with Owens and Johnson in AAA, or b) Owens or Johnson with Wright as the long reliever. If you keep Miley, Wright is the long reliever and Owens and Johnson are both in AAA. The marginal value of Miley over the best of Wright, Owens or Johnson (which may well be zero or negative) is a lot less than Miley's value over replacement. If you keep Barnes starting at AAA, you're OK for an 8th starter.
2. Javier Guerra. He's never going to play an inning at SS for us. His stock is high. Because his primary skill is defense, he has a relatively high floor, which offsets his distance from MLB.
3. Manuel Margot. This was originally an afterthought, but the more I thought it through the more I realized he belongs here. He and Benintendi are likely to arrive at roughly the same time, in the middle of 2017 for Benintendi, perhaps a bit later in the year for Margot. There should only be one OF spot next to Mookie and JBJ. Compared to Benintendi, a greater portion of Margot's value is defensive, so he loses more of it shifting to an OF corner. Just as importantly, Benintendi appears to have the better hit tool right now (as far as we can tell translating between A- ball and AA) and is therefore likely to be a better rookie, making him more attractive to a team like us that wants to compete every year. Margot is projected to pass him at their respective peaks, which in fact makes Margot more attractive to a team starting a multi-year rebuild.
4. Michael Chavis. He's very unlikely to ever play an inning for us, and dealing him solves the Devers / Chavis PT dilemma for good. The only reason he's not number 2 on this list is that his stock might be higher a year from now; OTOH, if he struggles again, it may drop further. You hope there's a team out there that still likes his tools. I wouldn't mention him when starting trade talk; you hope the other team asks for him.
5. Blake Swihart. Margot, Guerra, and Chavis should get you a pretty good upgrade from Miley. Add Swihart, and you can probably get almost anybody. It's quite likely that Vazquez will be the better MLB catcher for the next, say, three years (and not by a small margin, either*), after which Swihart is projected to pass him. And Swihart will always have the greater trade value, in part because Vazquez's defense will be undervalued. There are just two reasons not to do this: one, Vazquez's injury makes it a bit of a gamble, and two, Swihart's stock may have taken a bit of a hit because of his rookie struggles, and may be even higher a year from now. (There's also a slight chance that Swihart is so good next year that he immediately becomes the guy who you have to keep, but I think that's 20-to-1 or worse.)
*Swihart has now started 53 games, versus Vazquez's 50 last year; he's caught 11 more innings. Both are age-23 rookie seasons. Both guys started slow at the plate and improved. Including pitch-framing:
+2.7 bWAR: Vazquez (6.5 bWAR per 120 games) -0.1 bWAR: Swihart.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 21, 2015 11:31:50 GMT -5
I like your list, but I wouldn't have Miley 1st as I could understand holding onto him too.
I've also been warming to the idea of trading Swihart. He would be a good starting point in a Sale/Archer/Gray deal, and I really like Vazquez.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 21, 2015 12:23:36 GMT -5
Since this appears to be more than a prospect list, I would add the following:
A. Wright/Johnson/Owens all belong high up on this list, perhaps as 1B, 1C and 1D with Miley.
B. If you are discussing the integration of Benintendi in 2017, you would have to consider adding Hanley to the list. If Hanley stays in the outfield next year, you would have to consider adding Pedroia to the list. One of them is expendible because of Betts.
C. Marrero needs to be on this list somewhere.
I would take Chavis off the list. Either Devers will shift to 1B or Chavis will shift into a corner OF spot at higher levels, if necessary. I'd wager on the latter over the former, if forced to choose one over the other.
So, my list would look like this.
1. Hanley or Pedroia - this is the biggest decision DD is going to make in the next three months. Personally, I read the tea leaves as DD offloading Hanley now and Pedroia next trade deadline, but we'll have to see. Betts shifts into the spot of the one who is traded and JBJ takes over CF.
2. One or two of Miley/Johnson/Owens/Wright - DD will want to clear two rotation spots, one for a FA stud and one for a SP arriving via trade to add to Porcello, Rodriguez and Buchholz.
3. Margot - our most expendible prospect
4. Guerra - sell high
5. Swihart or Vazquez
6. Marrero - not sure he has much value, but he'll have none if he's not traded. Expendible because of Holt/M.Hernandez.
Depth
SP - one of Johnson/Owens/Wright, Buttrey, Ball, Kopech, Espinoza RP - Barnes, Light OF - Benintendi, Longhi (1B/COF) IF - Moncada, Devers, Travis, Chavis (3B/COF)
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Post by orcoaster on Aug 21, 2015 12:31:39 GMT -5
Good list. I think there's an elephant in the room who should be added.
Mookie Betts
IF Jackie Bradley Jr's recent surge is a turning point in his development, and I think this is highly likely, it is logical to put Mookie on the table. Betts' accomplishments to date, his untapped potential, his young age, and his low cost make him one of the most valuable trade chips in the league. If the Red Sox are to land a young ace in the Sale/Archer/Gray category, Mookie gets that deal done.
As good as Mookie has been defensively in CF, he is out of position there. And he will never approach the generational prowess of JBJ. I know many covet an outfield of both Betts and JBJ, but it's not a good fit. JBJ's bat does not play in RF, and Betts' doesn't work in LF. Betts' arm can't handle RF. Betts is one of those unique players who actually has more value on an opposing team than he does on his present team. He is THE sell high candidate in the league today.
Of course this argument collapses in JBJ reverts to the hitter we've seen over the last three years. But he's made steady progress through the minors and odds are he's finally figured it out. Regardless, the one place the Red Sox have legitimate "deep depth" is in the outfield, especially with Margot and Benintendi moving smartly through the system.
I love me some Mookie Betts, but the road to the next championship may require moving him. I'd bet a donut that Dave Dombrowski, the guy who traded Andrew Miller and Cameron Maybin, is mulling this over carefully. You have to give to get, and we deal from strength by trading Betts.
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Post by jdb on Aug 21, 2015 12:47:52 GMT -5
I think just about everyone is game except Betts, Xander and Rodriguez at the the MLB level. I could see one of JBJ or Castillio going if we can't get rid of Hanley and the infield isn't doable. In the minors I want to keep Moncado and Devers. I would put Espinoza there but given his age, size and distance from the majors if a team wants him as a headliner I'm thinking hard about it. I'd be surprised if Margot makes it to Fort Myers and right now I think we sign a top FA starter.
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Post by beantown on Aug 21, 2015 12:55:27 GMT -5
Good list. I think there's an elephant in the room who should be added. Mookie Betts IF Jackie Bradley Jr's recent surge is a turning point in his development, and I think this is highly likely, it is logical to put Mookie on the table. Betts' accomplishments to date, his untapped potential, his young age, and his low cost make him one of the most valuable trade chips in the league. If the Red Sox are to land a young ace in the Sale/Archer/Gray category, Mookie gets that deal done. As good as Mookie has been defensively in CF, he is out of position there. And he will never approach the generational prowess of JBJ. I know many covet an outfield of both Betts and JBJ, but it's not a good fit. JBJ's bat does not play in RF, and Betts' doesn't work in LF. Betts' arm can't handle RF. Betts is one of those unique players who actually has more value on an opposing team than he does on his present team. He is THE sell high candidate in the league today. Of course this argument collapses in JBJ reverts to the hitter we've seen over the last three years. But he's made steady progress through the minors and odds are he's finally figured it out. Regardless, the one place the Red Sox have legitimate "deep depth" is in the outfield, especially with Margot and Benintendi moving smartly through the system. I love me some Mookie Betts, but the road to the next championship may require moving him. I'd bet a donut that Dave Dombrowski, the guy who traded Andrew Miller and Cameron Maybin, is mulling this over carefully. You have to give to get, and we deal from strength by trading Betts. I agree he isn't a great fit in LF, but you're forgetting the possibility of a vacant spot at 2B. I think that Betts, along with Xander, is a franchise cornerstone-type guy up the middle.. absolutely untouchable
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Post by humanbeingbean on Aug 21, 2015 12:57:54 GMT -5
Good list. I think there's an elephant in the room who should be added. Mookie Betts IF Jackie Bradley Jr's recent surge is a turning point in his development, and I think this is highly likely, it is logical to put Mookie on the table. Betts' accomplishments to date, his untapped potential, his young age, and his low cost make him one of the most valuable trade chips in the league. If the Red Sox are to land a young ace in the Sale/Archer/Gray category, Mookie gets that deal done. As good as Mookie has been defensively in CF, he is out of position there. And he will never approach the generational prowess of JBJ. I know many covet an outfield of both Betts and JBJ, but it's not a good fit. JBJ's bat does not play in RF, and Betts' doesn't work in LF. Betts' arm can't handle RF. Betts is one of those unique players who actually has more value on an opposing team than he does on his present team. He is THE sell high candidate in the league today. Of course this argument collapses in JBJ reverts to the hitter we've seen over the last three years. But he's made steady progress through the minors and odds are he's finally figured it out. Regardless, the one place the Red Sox have legitimate "deep depth" is in the outfield, especially with Margot and Benintendi moving smartly through the system. I love me some Mookie Betts, but the road to the next championship may require moving him. I'd bet a donut that Dave Dombrowski, the guy who traded Andrew Miller and Cameron Maybin, is mulling this over carefully. You have to give to get, and we deal from strength by trading Betts. I agree he isn't a great fit in LF, but you're forgetting the possibility of a vacant spot at 2B. I think that Betts, along with Xander, is a franchise cornerstone-type guy up the middle.. absolutely untouchable I agree, and I think Moncada will end up at third, Devers at first... I can imagine a Benintendi/JBJ/Castillo (or Margot) outfield, then a Moncada/Bogaerts/Betts/Devers/Swihart infield, very easily.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 21, 2015 13:02:20 GMT -5
Eric, I disagree with you often, but I pretty much agree with your entire list and the reasoning presented. Guerra and Margot in particular are guys I've been thinking about as trade bait most of this year.
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Post by awall on Aug 21, 2015 13:03:37 GMT -5
it would make far more sense to trade Pedroia than Betts, at this point.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2015 13:10:33 GMT -5
Good list. I think there's an elephant in the room who should be added. Mookie Betts IF Jackie Bradley Jr's recent surge is a turning point in his development, and I think this is highly likely, it is logical to put Mookie on the table. Betts' accomplishments to date, his untapped potential, his young age, and his low cost make him one of the most valuable trade chips in the league. If the Red Sox are to land a young ace in the Sale/Archer/Gray category, Mookie gets that deal done. As good as Mookie has been defensively in CF, he is out of position there. And he will never approach the generational prowess of JBJ. I know many covet an outfield of both Betts and JBJ, but it's not a good fit. JBJ's bat does not play in RF, and Betts' doesn't work in LF. Betts' arm can't handle RF. Betts is one of those unique players who actually has more value on an opposing team than he does on his present team. He is THE sell high candidate in the league today. Of course this argument collapses in JBJ reverts to the hitter we've seen over the last three years. But he's made steady progress through the minors and odds are he's finally figured it out. Regardless, the one place the Red Sox have legitimate "deep depth" is in the outfield, especially with Margot and Benintendi moving smartly through the system. I love me some Mookie Betts, but the road to the next championship may require moving him. I'd bet a donut that Dave Dombrowski, the guy who traded Andrew Miller and Cameron Maybin, is mulling this over carefully. You have to give to get, and we deal from strength by trading Betts. I agree with this. Mookie should be able to get one of the young stud pitchers close to straight up, with the exception of Sale. The Mets seem like a good target since they have so much. Maybe they can pull off Rodon from the White Sox. If you think JBJ is for real, Mookie is a luxury more than a necessity.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2015 13:11:06 GMT -5
it would make far more sense to trade Pedroia than Betts, at this point. You would get far more for Betts, which is the point.
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Post by orcoaster on Aug 21, 2015 13:19:46 GMT -5
I agree he isn't a great fit in LF, but you're forgetting the possibility of a vacant spot at 2B. I think that Betts, along with Xander, is a franchise cornerstone-type guy up the middle.. absolutely untouchable I agree, and I think Moncada will end up at third, Devers at first... I can imagine a Benintendi/JBJ/Castillo (or Margot) outfield, then a Moncada/Bogaerts/Betts/Devers/Swihart infield, very easily. The Red Sox are paying Dustin Pedroia to play second base until 2021. His bat won't play anywhere else. He is far more valuable to the RS than to any other team therefore he has next to no trade value. You don't salary dump the face of the franchise and you certainly don't bench him (See Ortiz, David). Dustin plays 2B until 2021. In 2022 Mookie Betts turns 30 years old. It's more likely the next RS second baseman played last season in junior high, than it is Betts follows Pedroia. When Dustin has been unavailable, Mookie hasn't even been suggested as an emergency option. Hanley has played third, but no breath of returning Betts to the infield. The RS don't even want to move Betts out of CF for a clearly superior defensive player. For better or worse, the RS view Betts as a CF and clearly not as an infielder. Consequently, he's an imperfect fit for the developing roster.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 21, 2015 13:27:14 GMT -5
Since this appears to be more than a prospect list, I would add the following: A. Wright/Johnson/Owens all belong high up on this list, perhaps as 1B, 1C and 1D with Miley. B. If you are discussing the integration of Benintendi in 2017, you would have to consider adding Hanley to the list. If Hanley stays in the outfield next year, you would have to consider adding Pedroia to the list. One of them is expendible because of Betts. C. Marrero needs to be on this list somewhere. I would take Chavis off the list. Either Devers will shift to 1B or Chavis will shift into a corner OF spot at higher levels, if necessary. I'd wager on the latter over the former, if forced to choose one over the other. So, my list would look like this. 1. Hanley or Pedroia - this is the biggest decision DD is going to make in the next three months. Personally, I read the tea leaves as DD offloading Hanley now and Pedroia next trade deadline, but we'll have to see. Betts shifts into the spot of the one who is traded and JBJ takes over CF. 2. One or two of Miley/Johnson/Owens/Wright - DD will want to clear two rotation spots, one for a FA stud and one for a SP arriving via trade to add to Porcello, Rodriguez and Buchholz. 3. Margot - our most expendible prospect 4. Guerra - sell high 5. Swihart or Vazquez 6. Marrero - not sure he has much value, but he'll have none if he's not traded. Expendible because of Holt/M.Hernandez. Depth SP - one of Johnson/Owens/Wright, Buttrey, Ball, Kopech, Espinoza RP - Barnes, Light OF - Benintendi, Longhi (1B/COF) IF - Moncada, Devers, Travis, Chavis (3B/COF) Yeah, Marrero should be on my list, probably 6th. My sense of his value was so low that he didn't even cross my mind, but I'm forgetting how lame SS bats are these days. He projects to be about the 20th best hitting SS in MLB. I don't think his glove lifts him to first-division starter (all these guys can pick it), but he can be an upgrade / stopgap for someone as soon as next year. I made the argument that a Hanley trade makes no sense in his thread. It's largely because there's only one team, the O's, who will be looking to acquire a DH, which I think reduces his trade value to nothing. The marginal upgrade at 1B isn't worth the cost. If DDo wants to acquire two pitchers, one via trade and one via FA, then you would indeed trade either Johnson or Owens, ideally the former. The idea of trading Pedroia to make room for all this young talent makes some sense. But I don't see it ever happening. Instead, I see him finishing his career on our bench. I think that moving him only makes sense when and if Devers supplants Moncada (who has made Sandoval expendable after another year or two) at 3B; Moncada goes to the OF and Betts returns to 2B. (In that scenario, BTW, If Castillo is good enough to be a first-division starter when Benintendi is ready, you deal him; if not, he goes to the bench.) Why do I think Pedroia ends up on the bench? Consider his value in the clubhouse, and that they'll be hugely in the black on the deal by the time it no longer makes sense to start him, and, above all, that Pedroia is a guy who would rather play some baseball than none. It sure looks to me like they started with something like a 5 x $22M deal that would take him through age 34, which is precisely the sort of home-town discount deal that wouldn't have surprised anyone, and then spread the money out over three extra years. Which accomplishes the following: 1) Reduces the AAV to an insanely low level, freeing up $8.25M a year under the tax limit, helping the team be more competitive. 2) Guarantees that you'll have Pedroia's clubhouse presence for three extra years, which is a win as long as he can be a replacement level spare part. 3) Guarantees Pedroia that he gets to play some baseball rather than none until he's 37. So I bet that he's well aware that he probably finishes the contract as a backup. And even if he can only play 1B, 2B, and LF, it's likely that you'd rather have him on the bench than a cheap alternative.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 21, 2015 13:37:12 GMT -5
Good list. I think there's an elephant in the room who should be added. Mookie Betts I know many covet an outfield of both Betts and JBJ, but it's not a good fit. Betts' [bat] doesn't work in LF. Betts is one of those unique players who actually has more value on an opposing team than he does on his present team. He is THE sell high candidate in the league today. I agree he isn't a great fit in LF I agree with this ... If you think JBJ is for real, Mookie is a luxury more than a necessity. All of this is logically sound, but nevertheless demonstrably and completely wrong! In theory, LFers should hit much better than CFers and Betts should be way more valuable to another team than to us. But there is currently an incredible shortage of good-hitting corner OFers. Betts loses almost no value being moved there. I just ran this down in detail in some other thread.
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Aug 21, 2015 13:47:40 GMT -5
I agree, and I think Moncada will end up at third, Devers at first... I can imagine a Benintendi/JBJ/Castillo (or Margot) outfield, then a Moncada/Bogaerts/Betts/Devers/Swihart infield, very easily. The Red Sox are paying Dustin Pedroia to play second base until 2021. His bat won't play anywhere else. He is far more valuable to the RS than to any other team therefore he has next to no trade value. You don't salary dump the face of the franchise and you certainly don't bench him (See Ortiz, David). Dustin plays 2B until 2021. In 2022 Mookie Betts turns 30 years old. It's more likely the next RS second baseman played last season in junior high, than it is Betts follows Pedroia. When Dustin has been unavailable, Mookie hasn't even been suggested as an emergency option. Hanley has played third, but no breath of returning Betts to the infield. The RS don't even want to move Betts out of CF for a clearly superior defensive player. For better or worse, the RS view Betts as a CF and clearly not as an infielder. Consequently, he's an imperfect fit for the developing roster. I'd look to move Pedroia this offseason. You may think he is the face of the team but I certainly don't and feel that he is an overrated leader on this team. This is the type of player DD should be looking to move now before his contract becomes untradeable as he gets older.
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Post by awall on Aug 21, 2015 13:48:16 GMT -5
it would make far more sense to trade Pedroia than Betts, at this point. You would get far more for Betts, which is the point. My assumption is that you make the best move to improve your team. Keeping Betts and moving Pedroia would allow you to give JBJ a shot long term at CF while keeping your back-up plan on the team and in a position he's perfectly good at playing already.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 21, 2015 13:51:35 GMT -5
I would take Chavis off the list. Either Devers will shift to 1B or Chavis will shift into a corner OF spot at higher levels, if necessary. I'd wager on the latter over the former, if forced to choose one over the other. Is that largely because you think Chavis' stock will go up? It's hard to find a scenario where he ever starts for us -- if Devers ends up at 1B, and by all reports he's becoming a very good defensive 3B, Moncada probably ends up at 3B. Nor does Chavis look likely to break into the OF.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2015 13:53:07 GMT -5
Good list. I think there's an elephant in the room who should be added. Mookie Betts I know many covet an outfield of both Betts and JBJ, but it's not a good fit. Betts' [bat] doesn't work in LF. Betts is one of those unique players who actually has more value on an opposing team than he does on his present team. He is THE sell high candidate in the league today. I agree he isn't a great fit in LF I agree with this ... If you think JBJ is for real, Mookie is a luxury more than a necessity. All of this is logically sound, but nevertheless demonstrably and completely wrong! In theory, LFers should hit much better than CFers and Betts should be way more valuable to another team than to us. But there is currently an incredible shortage of good-hitting corner OFers. Betts loses almost no value being moved there. I just ran this down in detail in some other thread. It's not so much that I think he can't hit enough for LF. It's that we don't need his defense in LF and there are so many other options on the way. I like a Hanley/JBJ/Castillo OF with deGrom (or one of 4-5 other similar guys) as our #1 than Betts/JBJ/Castillo. Given that at least one of Benintendi, Moncada, Margot should be quite a good starting option in a couple years, it makes the loss of Betts easier to handle. And there are usually plenty of LF free agents available year to year. When is Bautista a FA? It's fine if CFers are now hitting better than LFers, but it's still probably a lot harder to find a good fielding CF who can hit than an average LF who can hit. I don't mind keeping Mookie in LF, but I think he'd be worth more to other teams in CF. I say this mainly because it now seems to be inevitable that we're trading for a young stud pitcher.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 21, 2015 14:02:04 GMT -5
I'd look to move Pedroia this offseason. You may think he is the face of the team but I certainly don't and feel that he is an overrated leader on this team. This is the type of player DD should be looking to move now before his contract becomes untradeable as he gets older. Pedroia's clubhouse value is much more his personality than his leadership qualities, although the latter are important, of course. The reason the '04 Sox came back against the Yankees is that the team believed that their terrible play in game 3 had no predictive quality at all. Millar and Damon felt that what happened in the recent past was meaningless, because they and their teammates were f-ing great, and they communicated that to the others. The reason why the team played so far below their abilities in September of 2011 was that Pedroia was the only guy left who had that attitude, and instead you had guys like AGon thinking that the bad play was God's will. You can't have too many guys on your team who actually believe that starting tomorrow everyone will play great, no matter how badly everyone has been playing. It's an absolutely priceless psychological clubhouse commodity, the single mindset that, in sufficient strength, wards off prolonged slumps and inoculates you against collapses. And Dustin Pedroia may well have it more strongly than any player on the planet.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 21, 2015 14:04:34 GMT -5
I would rather trade Pedroia and move Mookie to 2B than trade Betts for any pitcher personally. We have a deep enough farm to get just about anyone without letting go of Betts.
I also think trading Pedroia and moving Mookie to 2B and keeping JBJ in the outfield is a decent idea. Pedroia's contract is very team friendly, and perhaps a potential contender like NYM would be willing to part with a young pitcher in a deal for Pedroia.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2015 14:11:31 GMT -5
I'd look to move Pedroia this offseason. You may think he is the face of the team but I certainly don't and feel that he is an overrated leader on this team. This is the type of player DD should be looking to move now before his contract becomes untradeable as he gets older. Pedroia's clubhouse value is much more his personality than his leadership qualities, although the latter are important, of course. The reason the '04 Sox came back against the Yankees is that the team believed that their terrible play in game 3 had no predictive quality at all. Millar and Damon felt that what happened in the recent past was meaningless, because they and their teammates were f-ing great, and they communicated that to the others. The reason why the team played so far below their abilities in September of 2011 was that Pedroia was the only guy left who had that attitude, and instead you had guys like AGon thinking that the bad play was God's will. You can't have too many guys on your team who actually believe that starting tomorrow everyone will play great, no matter how badly everyone has been playing. It's an absolutely priceless psychological clubhouse commodity, the single mindset that, in sufficient strength, wards off prolonged slumps and inoculates you against collapses. And Dustin Pedroia may well have it more strongly than any player on the planet. That reminds me of Napoli who this year predicted they were going to go 42-14 to finish the season or whatever and wrote it on the wall. I love players like that. And anyone who is older knows that the psychology of being expected to lose like the Red Sox were for 86 years, that prophecy manifests itself more often than not. It just seemed like that was the actual reason they lost half the time. Especially in 86.
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danr
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Post by danr on Aug 21, 2015 14:15:33 GMT -5
Trading Pedroia and moving Betts to 2B makes sense from the standpoint of mechanical team construction. But there is more to team construction than simple mechanics. Thus, I truly doubt it will happen and I personally do not want it to happen. I think the Sox will be a better team with Pedroia than they would without him. He contributes an enormous amount that isn't visible. I think there is a good chance he will be in team management/coaching in a few years.
Almost certainly Ortiz is going to be gone after next year. Pedroia will be the last of the veterans, the last of the players bonded with the fans over many years. I cannot see Dombrowski letting both players leave in the same year. It would be bad for fan relations, for the reputation of the team with other players, and for team performance.
I also don't see Betts being traded. I think it is far more likely than Dombrowski will figure out a way to get rid of Hanley and Betts will be the LF. Just because current Sox management has wanted to keep Betts in CF doesn't mean the new Sox management will want to do that. It doesn't make sense with JBJ emerging.
In my opinion it is a no brainer. When you have the best CF in baseball you play him in CF. And Eric is absolutely right. Betts can play LF and probably be an All-Star. The old ideas of the kinds of players that each position should have are just that: old. They don't make sense in contemporary baseball. What makes sense is to have a balanced team of hitting, speed, defense and pitching.
I have no problem with Eric's list and I agree with much of what Amfox1 wrote, except for trading Pedroia. Hanley is the one who has to go. He simply doesn't fit and he is too expensive.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 21, 2015 14:16:56 GMT -5
I would rather trade Pedroia and move Mookie to 2B than trade Betts for any pitcher personally. We have a deep enough farm to get just about anyone without letting go of Betts. I also think trading Pedroia and moving Mookie to 2B and keeping JBJ in the outfield is a decent idea. Pedroia's contract is very team friendly, and perhaps a potential contender like NYM would be willing to part with a young pitcher in a deal for Pedroia. I'm fine with that as well, as long as DDo continues his record of keeping the best prospects and trading the busts. I'm curious what kind of trade value Castillo has also.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 21, 2015 14:19:53 GMT -5
Is that largely because you think Chavis' stock will go up? It's hard to find a scenario where he ever starts for us -- if Devers ends up at 1B, and by all reports he's becoming a very good defensive 3B, Moncada probably ends up at 3B. Nor does Chavis look likely to break into the OF. I think Chavis' stock may go up, but I cannot see why he is unlikely to break into the OF. He is 2-3 years away, at a minimum, and we cannot possibly assume that who will be in our outfield in 2018.
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Post by ifixbadcredit on Aug 21, 2015 14:34:19 GMT -5
Why would Guerra never play SS for the Red Sox? HIs ETA is in line with Bogaert's free agency and isn't Boras Bogaert's agent?
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