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Post by pedey on Sept 13, 2015 16:49:55 GMT -5
The Rockies would be crazy to trade Arenado, but their team is so bad all the way through. They need pitching desperately. Do you think they would listen to an offer for Arenado if the right prospects were involved? If the Sox could somehow dump The Panda (I wish they could dump Hanley too), it would be great if they could pull off a deal for Arenado. He wouldn't come cheap at all, but he would thrive at Fenway. Picture this lineup:
Betts Pedroia Bogaerts Ortiz Arenado Castillo Swihart Shaw Bradley
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Post by mattpicard on Sept 13, 2015 22:55:59 GMT -5
CarGo's the guy they'll try to move for some pitching talent, not Arenado. I'd have to think that any prospect package we put together that the Rockies would accept would be far, far too much for us to give up. And remember, while Arenado is a fantastic player (watching him play defense alone is just incredible), he's about to turn 30 and has a .255/.311/.442/.753 .252/.288/.433/.721 slash line outside of Coors in his career. There's a pretty good chance that Hanley in 2016 will outhit what Nolan would put up for the Sox.
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Post by glassox on Sept 13, 2015 23:29:10 GMT -5
I believe Nolan Arenado is only 24. Not about to turn 30. I feel Colorado wants to build around him in a similar fashion as they did with Tulo. CarGo i could see him being traded because his value is high, if he stays healthy the rest of the year.
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Post by mattpicard on Sept 13, 2015 23:43:52 GMT -5
I believe Nolan Arenado is only 24. Not about to turn 30. I feel Colorado wants to build around him in a similar fashion as they did with Tulo. CarGo i could see him being traded because his value is high, if he stays healthy the rest of the year. That's what happens when you've got a bunch of BB-Ref pages open -- I was reading off CarGo's. Thanks.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Sept 14, 2015 14:30:50 GMT -5
Nolan is the only player they market out here, he is on all the commercials and all the Rockies billboards around town. He is their only glimmer of hope, he is staying and probably will get locked up in the near future.
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Post by m1keyboots on Sept 14, 2015 17:31:35 GMT -5
It would take Mooks, one of our top pitching prospects JBJ/shaw type, us taking cargo, and BS to get Nolan. Methinks
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 1, 2016 22:09:48 GMT -5
This guy could be a quiet sleeper of the trade season. He's getting closer and closer to free agency (3 arbitration years left) and the Rockies could maximize their value for this guy this winter.
It will take the entire farm system but he's worth it.
Maybe a deal like this could work-
Nolan Arenado and Carlos Gonzalez for
Moncada, Sandoval (with maybe some cash), Eduardo Rodriguez, Devers, Kopech, and Basabe.
I would do it and extend Nolan.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 1, 2016 23:19:42 GMT -5
The Rockies would be crazy to trade Arenado, but their team is so bad all the way through. They need pitching desperately. Do you think they would listen to an offer for Arenado if the right prospects were involved? If the Sox could somehow dump The Panda (I wish they could dump Hanley too), it would be great if they could pull off a deal for Arenado. He wouldn't come cheap at all, but he would thrive at Fenway. Picture this lineup: Betts Pedroia Bogaerts Ortiz Arenado Castillo Swihart Shaw Bradley Why in the world would you want to dump Hanley Ramirez? A season of solid defense, averages of .286/.361/.866 with 30 HR and 111 RBI, doesn't do it for you?
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 2, 2016 8:16:44 GMT -5
To be fair to Pedey, he posted that before this season. Pedro's list going to Colorado seems a bit strong. E-rod would leave a gaping hole in the rotation and no, I don't consider Buchholz to fill that hole. I consider him, or Pomz, or Wright to be a swingman. Even taking out E-rod, it would sting. I'd do it, but I don't see them doing it.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 2, 2016 10:23:22 GMT -5
To be fair to Pedey, he posted that before this season. Pedro's list going to Colorado seems a bit strong. E-rod would leave a gaping hole in the rotation and no, I don't consider Buchholz to fill that hole. I consider him, or Pomz, or Wright to be a swingman. Even taking out E-rod, it would sting. I'd do it, but I don't see them doing it. Sorry I missed that. There haven't been many posts in this thread so I assumed it was recent. Should have checked the date. Doubt Pedey feels the same way now.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 2, 2016 17:38:30 GMT -5
This guy could be a quiet sleeper of the trade season. He's getting closer and closer to free agency (3 arbitration years left) and the Rockies could maximize their value for this guy this winter. It will take the entire farm system but he's worth it. Maybe a deal like this could work- Nolan Arenado and Carlos Gonzalez for Moncada, Sandoval (with maybe some cash), Eduardo Rodriguez, Devers, Kopech, and Basabe. I would do it and extend Nolan. Omg that is about as crazy a trade offer as I've seen in a long time! Arenado is not Mike Trout and that's a Mike Trout type package. Go look at Arenado splits, his OPS is almost 200 points lower on the road, than at home. He's a good player, but Moncada alone could become his equal in a few years. You don't trade 4 elite top 50 former or current prospects when Arenado is the main player. We also don't need Gonzalez, our OF is just fine, if not elite already. I sure hope you've never bashed DD trades, if this is what you think we should do.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 3, 2016 12:01:35 GMT -5
This guy could be a quiet sleeper of the trade season. He's getting closer and closer to free agency (3 arbitration years left) and the Rockies could maximize their value for this guy this winter. It will take the entire farm system but he's worth it. Maybe a deal like this could work- Nolan Arenado and Carlos Gonzalez for Moncada, Sandoval (with maybe some cash), Eduardo Rodriguez, Devers, Kopech, and Basabe. I would do it and extend Nolan. Omg that is about as crazy a trade offer as I've seen in a long time! Arenado is not Mike Trout and that's a Mike Trout type package. Go look at Arenado splits, his OPS is almost 200 points lower on the road, than at home. He's a good player, but Moncada alone could become his equal in a few years. You don't trade 4 elite top 50 former or current prospects when Arenado is the main player. We also don't need Gonzalez, our OF is just fine, if not elite already. I sure hope you've never bashed DD trades, if this is what you think we should do. Nolan is a top 5 player in all of baseball and he's 24. He's not Mike Trout, but he's pretty damn close. He's a franchise player. He's what we'd hope Moncada will turn into.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 3, 2016 14:08:20 GMT -5
Omg that is about as crazy a trade offer as I've seen in a long time! Arenado is not Mike Trout and that's a Mike Trout type package. Go look at Arenado splits, his OPS is almost 200 points lower on the road, than at home. He's a good player, but Moncada alone could become his equal in a few years. You don't trade 4 elite top 50 former or current prospects when Arenado is the main player. We also don't need Gonzalez, our OF is just fine, if not elite already. I sure hope you've never bashed DD trades, if this is what you think we should do. Nolan is a top 5 player in all of baseball and he's 24. He's not Mike Trout, but he's pretty damn close. He's a franchise player. He's what we'd hope Moncada will turn into. How is he a top 5 player? What do you use to come up with that? He's not even close to Mike Trout level of 10.55 bwars, only Betts and his 9.55 was close. He was 11th in bwars at 6.5, he's much closer to Pedroia and Bradley who had 5.63 and 5.33 than Mike Trout. He is a very good player, I have no problem calling him a franchise player. That doesn't mean he's even close to Mike Trout. His stats are inflated due to Coors field. Would I still want the Sox to get him? Yes, but you don't gut a ton of our young players to do it. Your package includes 4 guys that all have a really good chance of being really good players. All four in the next 3-4 years could be all stars and could become franchise type players. Your trade also leaves a huge void in our rotation for next year. It just makes little sense.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 3, 2016 14:24:36 GMT -5
The Sox would still have a really good rotation regardless of this idea.
Having a young right handed slugger in Fenway park is ideal. His numbers would inflate in Fenway also, which is another reason why I want him.
He is a top 5 player because of his combined gold glove defense at third and the way he slugs from that position. He's a 40+ homerun slugger that plays some of the best defense in baseball. How is that not a top 5 player?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 3, 2016 14:30:58 GMT -5
Best case scenario is that Moncada and Devers BECOME Arenado. They could "become all-stars" but Nolan is already a all-star and he's 24.
Maybe you don't have to include Eduardo or Kopech and you still can get him, I don't think this would be the case but hopefully you could do it that way. I think you'll need to overpay to get this guy and he's worth it.
This guy might actually be obtainable too, unlike Mike Trout, who really isn't in any realistic world. The Rockies aren't going to extend him or it would of happened already.
Having Mookie and Nolan back to back in a lineup is a dream scenario. You could be in contention for 10 years with these two players in the same lineup.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 3, 2016 14:35:43 GMT -5
Ohh and I would want Cargo because he would make a good platoon from the Dh position with Chris Young for a year and he could fill in from the corner outfield from time to time.
This way you could avoid the Edwin contract you don't want. The Sox are getting a slugger one way or another this off season. Minis well be a young one.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 3, 2016 16:08:17 GMT -5
He's not a top 5 player because there are better players than him! You still don't get that his home park inflated him HR totals do you?? He played almost exactly the same amount of games at home, as he did on road. He hit 25 homers at home and 16 on the road. There is no way Fenway is going to inflate his numbers, it's going to decrease them. Do you really not understand that Coors field inflates hitters numbers? You act like he played in a pitchers park like Petco, when he played his home games in the best hitters park in the league. Again last season his OPS was 200 points higher at home than on the road! It was 1.030 at home and .832 on the road. That means at home he was David Ortiz and on the road he was like Dustin Pedroia.
He's a very good player, but very slim chance he hits 40 HR as a Red Sox, never mind his numbers going up.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 3, 2016 23:41:07 GMT -5
Nolan is a top 5 player in all of baseball and he's 24. He's not Mike Trout, but he's pretty damn close. He's a franchise player. He's what we'd hope Moncada will turn into. How is he a top 5 player? What do you use to come up with that? He's not even close to Mike Trout level of 10.55 bwars, only Betts and his 9.55 was close. He was 11th in bwars at 6.5, he's much closer to Pedroia and Bradley who had 5.63 and 5.33 than Mike Trout. He is a very good player, I have no problem calling him a franchise player. That doesn't mean he's even close to Mike Trout. His stats are inflated due to Coors field. Would I still want the Sox to get him? Yes, but you don't gut a ton of our young players to do it. Your package includes 4 guys that all have a really good chance of being really good players. All four in the next 3-4 years could be all stars and could become franchise type players. Your trade also leaves a huge void in our rotation for next year. It just makes little sense. Yes. I don't see how that trade makes the team all that much better, even in the short term. In the long-term, it's a nightmare.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 3, 2016 23:47:43 GMT -5
He's not a top 5 player because there are better players than him! You still don't get that his home park inflated him HR totals do you?? He played almost exactly the same amount of games at home, as he did on road. He hit 25 homers at home and 16 on the road. There is no way Fenway is going to inflate his numbers, it's going to decrease them. Do you really not understand that Coors field inflates hitters numbers? You act like he played in a pitchers park like Petco, when he played his home games in the best hitters park in the league. Again last season his OPS was 200 points higher at home than on the road! It was 1.030 at home and .832 on the road. That means at home he was David Ortiz and on the road he was like Dustin Pedroia. He's a very good player, but very slim chance he hits 40 HR as a Red Sox, never mind his numbers going up. To be fair, he does have to hit in Petco, Pac Bell, and Chavez Ravine in a substantial number of away games. So his away totals may be excessively *deflated*. But I'd still be very concerned that Arenado's numbers outside of Coors would be much more pedestrian. With his defense and an .900 OPS (guesstimate in the AL), he'd be a terrific addition, but not worth the whole future for three years.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 4, 2016 13:42:25 GMT -5
He's not a top 5 player because there are better players than him! You still don't get that his home park inflated him HR totals do you?? He played almost exactly the same amount of games at home, as he did on road. He hit 25 homers at home and 16 on the road. There is no way Fenway is going to inflate his numbers, it's going to decrease them. Do you really not understand that Coors field inflates hitters numbers? You act like he played in a pitchers park like Petco, when he played his home games in the best hitters park in the league. Again last season his OPS was 200 points higher at home than on the road! It was 1.030 at home and .832 on the road. That means at home he was David Ortiz and on the road he was like Dustin Pedroia. He's a very good player, but very slim chance he hits 40 HR as a Red Sox, never mind his numbers going up. To be fair, he does have to hit in Petco, Pac Bell, and Chavez Ravine in a substantial number of away games. So his away totals may be excessively *deflated*. But I'd still be very concerned that Arenado's numbers outside of Coors would be much more pedestrian. With his defense and an .900 OPS (guesstimate in the AL), he'd be a terrific addition, but not worth the whole future for three years. That's why you extend him.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 4, 2016 13:44:42 GMT -5
He's not a top 5 player because there are better players than him! You still don't get that his home park inflated him HR totals do you?? He played almost exactly the same amount of games at home, as he did on road. He hit 25 homers at home and 16 on the road. There is no way Fenway is going to inflate his numbers, it's going to decrease them. Do you really not understand that Coors field inflates hitters numbers? You act like he played in a pitchers park like Petco, when he played his home games in the best hitters park in the league. Again last season his OPS was 200 points higher at home than on the road! It was 1.030 at home and .832 on the road. That means at home he was David Ortiz and on the road he was like Dustin Pedroia. He's a very good player, but very slim chance he hits 40 HR as a Red Sox, never mind his numbers going up. Your 5 best players in baseball would be different than mine then. A guy who can slug at a premium position like that, while playing the best defense in the league at that position arguably is a top 5 player in my book. You honestly don't think a place like Fenway wouldn't inflate his numbers too?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 4, 2016 13:46:25 GMT -5
Speaking of Pedrioa, he's a guy to point to and say that right handed hitters numbers inflate at Fenway park. Check out Pedrioa's numbers road and home splits last year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 4, 2016 14:25:19 GMT -5
Leaders in bwar- Trout, Betts, Bryant, Altuve, Donaldson, Cano, Seager, Machado, and Dozier. He's not the only guy in league that can slug and play great D at premium position.
Do I think Fenway would inflate his numbers? Nope, not compared to Coors field. Fenway can help hitters compared to other parks like Petco, but Coors field is the best hitters park in league and has been for like the last 20 years. Have you really never heard of the Coors field effect? If he played for Red Sox he would be closer to a 30 Homer guy, then a 41 Homer guy. Still a great player, but not close to a Mike Trout level player.
As to Pedroia, last year his OPS was .856 at home and.793 on road. He hit 7 HR at home and 8 HR on the road. So Fenway didn't inflate his HR totals. Ortiz last year hit 20 HR at home and 18 on the road. Fenway didn't inflate his numbers. Betts hit 17 HR at home, 14 on road.
Players normally hit better at home, it's there comfort zone. But when a players OPS is 200 points higher for his career at home compared to road that's a red flag. Sure what Telson said about some of the road parks is true, he does play a decent amount of games in pitcher parks. That alone doesn't explain 200 points on his OPS though.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 4, 2016 14:44:17 GMT -5
Altuve, Bryant, Cano, and Dozier are no where on the same planet in terms of Arenado defensively.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 4, 2016 14:54:20 GMT -5
Leaders in bwar- Trout, Betts, Bryant, Altuve, Donaldson, Cano, Seager, Machado, and Dozier. He's not the only guy in league that can slug and play great D at premium position. Do I think Fenway would inflate his numbers? Nope, not compared to Coors field. As to Pedroia, last year his OPS was .856 at home and.793 on road. He hit 7 HR at home and 8 HR on the road. Players normally hit better at home, it's there comfort zone. But when a players OPS is 200 points higher for his career at home compared to road that's a red flag. Sure what Telson said about some of the road parks is true, he does play a decent amount of games in pitcher parks. That alone doesn't explain 200 points on his OPS though. So when a Sox player hits better at home, it's normal and fine. When Nolan hits better at home and then hits worse against some of the most pitcher friendly parks in the the game, it's a red flag? You realize that Fenway is one of the most hitter friendly parks because of the least amount of foul territory in the majors and there's a wall 300 feet away from right handed hitters, right? Sure Fenway will take some homeruns away, but it won't take away from his extra base totals unless he's hitting hard singles off the monster every time out. Which is why I think both Trout and Arenado would both be 30 homerun plus bats at Fenway. Your post is filled with double standards and it's really not worth arguing anymore. You don't value Arenado like I think you should be. That's your opinion versus mine. He isn't just a "really good player," he's a franchise player you can build around for the next 10 years if you wanted to imo.
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