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Post by GyIantosca on Sept 24, 2015 17:08:26 GMT -5
I was worried w/the Mccraken interview if he hired him maybe they were going to do changes. It seems like Dave is happy with our management personnel.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Sept 24, 2015 17:09:12 GMT -5
I remember a few years ago, Hazen, who was the director of player dev. then, has done a twitter chat about the state of the system and it was crowded by SP.com posters and he got asked about a young SS in the DSL named Xander Bogaerts...just remembering the smile on his face that moment, it was like "yeah, he's very special and how the hell do you guys know about him?" Great internet moment! Yeah that chat! Thank you for finding it IIRC the question was asked by SoxScout aka Red Sox Stats (who blocked on twitter for reasons I still don't undestand)
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 24, 2015 17:32:18 GMT -5
There had to be a senior person above Cherington in the chain of command. They hired a "fellow GM" and Cherington exercised his right to decline to serve under him. He may have thought of staying on as a demotion. I think this is an important point. There really isn't a lot of change going on here. I wonder if BC has pictures of Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval on his dart board.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 24, 2015 20:32:21 GMT -5
Jason Mastrodonato @jmastrodonato 5m5 minutes ago Classy text from Ben Cherington: "Mike is very deserving and ready to be a GM and I think the Sox made a smart choice."
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Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 24, 2015 20:36:02 GMT -5
There had to be a senior person above Cherington in the chain of command. They hired a "fellow GM" and Cherington exercised his right to decline to serve under him. He may have thought of staying on as a demotion. I think this is an important point. There really isn't a lot of change going on here. I wonder if BC has pictures of Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval on his dart board. My guess is that there is a major change going on in Hazen's checking account.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2015 23:17:57 GMT -5
I'm happy and kind of relieved that Mike Hazen was Dombrowski's choice. It certainly makes the most sense. He knows the organization as well as anybody else does, has done a good job building up the minors, and certainly has the support of the baseball ops dept.
Dave Dombrowski, thus far, has been true to his word. He hasn't blown up the operation.
It's interesting that Cherington was unwilling to allow Dombrowski to have the final say on baseball ops matters because he saw it as a step down. In the case of Hazen he was second in line to Cherington and now at a better title and a higher paycheck, he's still second in line, this time to Dombrowski. For him it's not a step down. In reality, it's probably more of a parallel move, but one that will earn him more prestige and money.
It also makes me more comfortable because it makes me think that the Sox will have a strong advocate for keeping the farm system intact, as opposed to going for a short-term fix. It doesn't mean that he has the final say in that matter, but at least he'll have Dombrowski's ear.
I certainly hope they do keep the front office intact, as that sounds like the most likely scenario. Hopefully that means Ed Romero Jr. sticks around, and I also hope, if he doesn't get a GM gig, that the Sox are able to retain DiPoto.
Now I can't help but wonder who takes Hazen's old gig. Is it possible that Farrell might not want to have to do the kind of intensive traveling that he's been doing, and perhaps could wind up working in the front office, where he certainly has experience, while Lovullo would stay on as the manager?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 24, 2015 23:58:58 GMT -5
I'm no insider, but when Lucchino resigned on August 1, they faced a vacuum in their front office. To whom would Cherington report? Sam Kennedy? No -- he is not the chief executive officer "going forward" (as all CEOs like to say). To Mike Gordon? Doubtful. To Werner? God, no. To John Henry? Then almost assuredly. Dombrowski's firing by Ilitch presented Henry with the chance to hire a proven senior executive with whom he had worked in Miami. Had Ilitch pulled the trigger sooner, perhaps Dombrowski would have inherited the CEO mantle from Lucchino. (He had it with the Tigers for a dozen years.) There had to be a senior person above Cherington in the chain of command. They hired a "fellow GM" and Cherington exercised his right to decline to serve under him. He may have thought of staying on as a demotion. There's no stigma for Hazen, only two years younger and with almost as much time in the game as Cherington. My own take is that, with the retirement of Lucchino - whether he was pushed or he jumped - Henry decided to establish much clearer lines of authority. The friction between Epstein and LL was palpable. I could easily pick up the vibes from out here in the West. It could be that, having come from a subordinate position in the organization, Cherrington found himself in the same sort of jousting competition with LL once he became GM, but with little desire to use the media. Epstein has no such qualms. I don't think there was a well established "senior person". How many posts on this site were about who bore responsibility for what? That never seemed very clear. Another piece of evidence is the perception that Cherrington likely had of his own authority, which probably led to his leaving once the organization chart got sorted out. No more ambiguity and he wasn't going to be top dog. That may have been the problem that Henry addressed with these moves. He knows and trusts Dombrowski, so he made it clear that the decision making on the high level stuff Chris mentions would rest with the guy. No more arguments, no more gorilla suits.
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Post by burythehammer on Sept 25, 2015 5:35:34 GMT -5
Yeah that chat! Thank you for finding it IIRC the question was asked by SoxScout aka Red Sox Stats (who blocked on twitter for reasons I still don't undestand) He blocked me too. He's a sensitive little guy.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 25, 2015 6:41:23 GMT -5
For Cherington, reporting to Dombrowski was absolutely going to be a demotion. Yes, he always had bosses, but it's not like Lucchino was out talking with GMs and negotiating trades and scouting players and stuff.
Edit: I'll put it this way: I doubt Cherington had to get permission from Lucchino to trade Gunkel for De Aza, or De Aza for Ysla, other than making sure the cash considerations were ok with ownership perhaps. Under the current structure, Dombrowski would probably have final sign-off on such deals.
As for Hazen's position, I don't think it's one that needs to be "filled." He was one of the nebulous VPs they have, like Amiel Sawdaye is now. That number has historically fluctuated.
Edit2: Looked, and Brian O'Halloran has the SVP/AGM title as well. Baird is SVP/Player Personnel. Ferrera and Sawdaye are both VPs.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 25, 2015 8:32:39 GMT -5
For Cherington, reporting to Dombrowski was absolutely going to be a demotion. Yes, he always had bosses, but it's not like Lucchino was out taking with GMs and negotiating trades and scoring players and stuff. As for Hazen's position, I don't think it's one that needs to be "filled." He was one of the nebulous VPs they have, like Amiel Sawdaye is now. That number has historically fluctuated. Honest question: Would Hazen's VP position be a promotion for Farrell?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 25, 2015 9:24:25 GMT -5
For Cherington, reporting to Dombrowski was absolutely going to be a demotion. Yes, he always had bosses, but it's not like Lucchino was out taking with GMs and negotiating trades and scoring players and stuff. As for Hazen's position, I don't think it's one that needs to be "filled." He was one of the nebulous VPs they have, like Amiel Sawdaye is now. That number has historically fluctuated. Honest question: Would Hazen's VP position be a promotion for Farrell? If he wanted to continue being a field manager? Probably not.
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Post by ethanbein on Sept 25, 2015 10:37:37 GMT -5
Hazen wasn't just some VP, he was Assistant GM, no? How many teams have no baseball ops-focused AGM?
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Post by jrffam05 on Sept 25, 2015 11:19:59 GMT -5
I was really hoping DD would have hired Wren, and traded all our prospects for high salary relievers already.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 25, 2015 11:28:09 GMT -5
Hazen wasn't just some VP, he was Assistant GM, no? How many teams have no baseball ops-focused AGM? See the edit to my post. They still have an Assistant GM, a Sr VP of Player Personnel, and Amiel as a VP of amateur and international scouting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 12:55:10 GMT -5
Interesting tidbit today. Mike Hazen owes it all to Peter Gammons. www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/09/mike-hazen-gm-red-sox.html"Speier also spoke to Hazen’s Princeton baseball coach, Scott Bradley, at length about the way in which Hazen broke into the front office game; Bradley introduced Hazen to Peter Gammons after Hazen’s minor league career ended, and after doing some work scouting the Cape Cod League, an impressed Gammons put him in touch with Indians GM Mark Shapiro, encouraging Shapiro to hire him as an intern. Shapiro made the hire, and within a month contacted Bradley and Gammons to profess what a special career he believed Hazen to have in front of him."
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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 25, 2015 14:10:44 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal #RedSox announce that they have named former #Braves GM Frank Wren their new senior VP of baseball operations.
Welp.
ADD: Jared Banner promoted to Director of Player Personnel. Brad Pearson promoted to head athletic trainer with Rick Jameyson leaving the team.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Sept 25, 2015 14:19:18 GMT -5
Sean McAdam @sean_McAdam 3m3 minutes ago Sox say Wren will ''serve as a talent evaluator and will assist Dombrowski in all aspects of baseball operations.'' Sean McAdam @sean_McAdam 4m4 minutes ago Red Sox announce that Frank Wren has been hired as senior vice president of baseball operations. Wren has been GM in BAL and ATL.
Gordon Edes @gordonedes 4m4 minutes ago Chain of command: 1, DD 2, Hazen 3, Wren Pete Abraham @peteabe 6m6 minutes ago #RedSox following Dodgers model of loading up on executives.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 25, 2015 14:20:36 GMT -5
So basically the Hazen hire was PR before hiring Wren? Yuck.
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Post by slyfox on Sept 25, 2015 14:20:36 GMT -5
Is there any chance that Red Sox manage to retain Dipoto as well? Don't love the Wren signing but a roundtable of DD, Hazen, Dipoto, and Wren to determine major decisions is pretty enticing.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Sept 25, 2015 14:21:33 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal #RedSox announce that they have named former #Braves GM Frank Wren their new senior VP of baseball operations. Welp. ADD: Jared Banner promoted to Director of Player Personnel. Brad Pearson promoted to head athletic trainer with Rick Jameyson leaving the team. Much rather would have had McCracken or Dipoto in this role, though I suppose they want GM gigs elsewhere.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 25, 2015 14:22:18 GMT -5
So basically the Hazen hire was PR before hiring Wren? Yuck. No
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Post by templeusox on Sept 25, 2015 14:25:36 GMT -5
So basically the Hazen hire was PR before hiring Wren? Yuck. This role basically makes Wren a talent evaluator and a shoulder Dombrowski can lean on. He won't be signing off on decisions though.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 25, 2015 14:29:52 GMT -5
Baird has the role currently
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Sept 25, 2015 14:51:13 GMT -5
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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 25, 2015 14:51:50 GMT -5
Sean McAdam @sean_McAdam Baseball source says Wren will serve chiefly as a talent evaluator. Will be based in ATL and scout talent "for acquisition purposes.''
Sean McAdam @sean_McAdam Sounds as if Wren will be serving in a role similar to one now held by Allard Baird.
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