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Farrell to remain Manager if health permits
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Post by MLBDreams on Oct 2, 2015 15:55:15 GMT -5
Agreed about Torey should get the manager job, not JF due to young players performed better under TL. We have high hopes for the team with young prospect players that made significant process. All DD do is to make changes with bullpen & starter staffs as upgrade. I hope JF realized by the job performance Torey has done for the team as interim manager. It's best decision by not to play bad players on the field (aka Panda & Hanley).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 2, 2015 16:06:28 GMT -5
I think this all on John Farrell.....I think he comes forward & says he is stepping down as mgr due to health reasons (even though he may be ok to manage) & take a front office job....this way TL can stay on board & actually MOVE into the managers office without taking his friends job & DD doesn't have to be the bad guy in firing the man who recovered from cancer.....I don't think JF HAS to be a field mgr to be satisfied/fulfilled. Special Assistant to the GM is generally considered the best job in baseball. Boston, Baseball, Battlestar Galactica
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Post by ray88h66 on Oct 2, 2015 16:18:37 GMT -5
Agreed about Torey should get the manager job, not JF due to young players performed better under TL. We have high hopes for the team with young prospect players that made significant process. All DD do is to make changes with bullpen & starter staffs as upgrade. I hope JF realized by the job performance Torey has done for the team as interim manager. It's best decision by not to play bad players on the field (aka Panda & Hanley). [/b] That's the tricky part. If the Sox can't move Hanley and Panda, they will play, no matter who is manager.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2015 16:24:04 GMT -5
Special Assistant to the GM is generally considered the best job in baseball. Boston, Baseball, Battlestar Galactica Great office reference
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Post by burythehammer on Oct 3, 2015 4:45:43 GMT -5
I never said what you just wrote. What I am saying is that he deserves to be manager again because people shouldn't lose their jobs because of illness. It's a core belief of mine. I don't think you're phrasing this correctly. You seem to be saying that if someone gets sick their employer should be unable to fire them. But you're ignoring the fact that there was an extremely high likelihood, before he got sick, that Farrell was gone next year. The only thing that's changed is he got cancer (I don't really buy into the whole thing about the team performing better with Lovullo, it's 40 games or whatever, who cares). Maybe DD is keeping him based on merit, but if it's just because he doesn't want to look heartless, and he doesn't really think JF should be the team's manager, do you support that? BTW, I also think it's silly to lump an MLB manager who makes 1M+ a year and has a guaranteed contract in with "people" in general, and I'm pretty sure it IS basically against the law for your employer to fire you just because you have to miss time for treatment for an illness.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 3, 2015 7:51:20 GMT -5
I don't think you're phrasing this correctly. You seem to be saying that if someone gets sick their employer should be unable to fire them. But you're ignoring the fact that there was an extremely high likelihood, before he got sick, that Farrell was gone next year. The only thing that's changed is he got cancer (I don't really buy into the whole thing about the team performing better with Lovullo, it's 40 games or whatever, who cares). Maybe DD is keeping him based on merit, but if it's just because he doesn't want to look heartless, and he doesn't really think JF should be the team's manager, do you support that? BTW, I also think it's silly to lump an MLB manager who makes 1M+ a year and has a guaranteed contract in with "people" in general, and I'm pretty sure it IS basically against the law for your employer to fire you just because you have to miss time for treatment for an illness. I don't really understand how what I wrote can be misconstrued, but it appears this is going to be the second time this is going to happen. Maybe it's not my phrasing, but your context that should be scrutinized. Look at the title of the thread and look at my original post...it was a simple statement. I am not aware of any indication that he was going to be fired, beyond the usual frustrated poster on this board. Maybe you could point me to an article that was written and sourced. As far as DD or JF and his doctors or MH or any of the players that will determine his future. I would hope and are confident that they will sit down and discuss his health vis-a-vis the duties of a manager and make an informed decision that's best for him and the club.
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Post by mgoetze on Oct 3, 2015 8:43:55 GMT -5
My signature predates JF's cancer diagnosis.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 3, 2015 9:44:06 GMT -5
To be clear, the report is that Farrell will be the manager if healthy, not that he will be with the organization in an undetermined role. This. Which is meh IMO. It's not his fault JBJ and Shaw replaced Sandoval and Hanley once he went down, so I don't think our better half is the result of Lovullo. But Farrell is horrible with using even the most basic splits to form a lineup and makes questionable decisions with the bullpen as well. I don't think he has a huge effect on the number of games we win, but he doesn't have a positive one either IMO. This and Fenwaythehardway's post pretty much reflect my thoughts exactly. I think the fact they just re-signed Farrell recently and don't want to waste money is part of it and they don't want to have to fire him either. You have to think next year is his last shot but younger players do seem to struggle under Farrell and he doesn't give them as much playing time which is kind of scary to me given the progress of our young guys this season. I agree he is horrible with the splits and he also doesn't ever seem to pinch run, pinch hit or bring in the right reliever even when obvious guys to bring in are right there in front of him.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 3, 2015 9:46:42 GMT -5
I never said what you just wrote. What I am saying is that he deserves to be manager again because people shouldn't lose their jobs because of illness. It's a core belief of mine. I don't think you're phrasing this correctly. You seem to be saying that if someone gets sick their employer should be unable to fire them. But you're ignoring the fact that there was an extremely high likelihood, before he got sick, that Farrell was gone next year. The only thing that's changed is he got cancer (I don't really buy into the whole thing about the team performing better with Lovullo, it's 40 games or whatever, who cares). Maybe DD is keeping him based on merit, but if it's just because he doesn't want to look heartless, and he doesn't really think JF should be the team's manager, do you support that? BTW, I also think it's silly to lump an MLB manager who makes 1M+ a year and has a guaranteed contract in with "people" in general, and I'm pretty sure it IS basically against the law for your employer to fire you just because you have to miss time for treatment for an illness. They also get paid for their entire contract, unlike we worker bees. So firing a manager is not really firing someone. It's telling them to take a permanent paid vacation until their contract runs out. This is a pretty silly disagreement.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 3, 2015 10:10:26 GMT -5
Farrell was not reticent in playing younger players. He had Panda and Hanley given to him in Cherington's belief that he had assembled a contending team. He was also, I believe, forced to play Victorino and Napoli to attempt to build up value for a midseason trade.
He played Mookie, Bogey and Vasquez last year and Middlebrooks before that. There is also the theory that you shouldn't rush rookies into everyday lineups so as not to destroy their confidence should they encounter adversity.
Swihart developed nicely though he was forced into the role as regular catcher because of injuries to Vasquez and Hanigan. Bradley was given ample opportunity to seize a regular OF position but blew it until late in this season. So I don't buy the notion that somehow JF shunted his younger players to lesser roles on the team or sent them back to the minors.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 3, 2015 10:13:22 GMT -5
Instead of talking about what isn't his fault, what does Farrell bring to the table in terms of positives?
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 3, 2015 10:22:03 GMT -5
Farrell was not reticent in playing younger players. He had Panda and Hanley given to him in Cherington's belief that he had assembled a contending team. He was also, I believe, forced to play Victorino and Napoli to attempt to build up value for a midseason trade. He played Mookie and Vasquez last year and Middlebrooks before that. There is also the theory that you shouldn't rush rookies into everyday lineups so as not to destroy their confidence should they encounter adversity. Swihart developed nicely though he was forced into the role as regular catcher because of injuries to Vasquez and Hanigan. Bradley was given ample opportunity to seize a regular OF position but blew it until late in this season. So I don't buy the notion that somehow JF shunted his younger players to lesser roles on the team or sent them back to the minors. This isn't just one or two things. You also had him keeping Xander on the bench against LHP when Drew was OPS'ing about .400 against them in 2013 and then Farrell stating that Gomes earned the everyday job in the OF when he was OPS'ing under .500 vs. RHP while Nava was on the bench. And he'd take forever to drop veterans down in the lineup in favor of younger players who were hitting. He played Mookie last year when he had no choice and the season was already over. He didn't have much choice with Vazquez or Middlebrooks either. But if Mookie were on the team to start the season last year? I guarantee Sizemore, Carp and Victorino would have gotten the playing time. He takes way too long to show confidence in young players, which probably doesn't help their confidence either. And what does showing confidence in veterans who are playing terribly for way too long show? This isn't anything new with him. Blue Jays fans were as pissed off as most of us have been regarding his lineup decisions. He isn't going to change and most of it is hard to defend.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 3, 2015 10:23:05 GMT -5
Instead of talking about what isn't his fault, what does Farrell bring to the table in terms of positives? His last name doesn't start with a V?
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 3, 2015 11:23:02 GMT -5
He is good at talking to the media and liked within the clubhouse but thats about it.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 3, 2015 11:28:22 GMT -5
Instead of talking about what isn't his fault, what does Farrell bring to the table in terms of positives? Besides helping to bring a championship to Boston with a collection of second tier players Cherington brought together, I like the fact that he, like Francona, will address the media and explain himself for the decisions he made. He's also, by all accounts, respected by his players and goes out of his way to protect them from prying eyes (media).
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 3, 2015 11:36:11 GMT -5
Farrell was not reticent in playing younger players. He had Panda and Hanley given to him in Cherington's belief that he had assembled a contending team. He was also, I believe, forced to play Victorino and Napoli to attempt to build up value for a midseason trade. He played Mookie and Vasquez last year and Middlebrooks before that. There is also the theory that you shouldn't rush rookies into everyday lineups so as not to destroy their confidence should they encounter adversity. Swihart developed nicely though he was forced into the role as regular catcher because of injuries to Vasquez and Hanigan. Bradley was given ample opportunity to seize a regular OF position but blew it until late in this season. So I don't buy the notion that somehow JF shunted his younger players to lesser roles on the team or sent them back to the minors. This isn't just one or two things. You also had him keeping Xander on the bench against LHP when Drew was OPS'ing about .400 against them in 2013 and then Farrell stating that Gomes earned the everyday job in the OF when he was OPS'ing under .500 vs. RHP while Nava was on the bench. And he'd take forever to drop veterans down in the lineup in favor of younger players who were hitting. He played Mookie last year when he had no choice and the season was already over. He didn't have much choice with Vazquez or Middlebrooks either. But if Mookie were on the team to start the season last year? I guarantee Sizemore, Carp and Victorino would have gotten the playing time. He takes way too long to show confidence in young players, which probably doesn't help their confidence either. And what does showing confidence in veterans who are playing terribly for way too long show? This isn't anything new with him. Blue Jays fans were as pissed off as most of us have been regarding his lineup decisions. He isn't going to change and most of it is hard to defend. If Blue Jay fans were so pissed about his decisions why weren't they cheering when he left? I got the impression from all the boos that they were pissed that he deserted their team. Guess some, at least, wanted him to stay. At any rate, Dombrowski is committed to him assuming his health and recovery permit a full time commitment to manage. I'd like to see him guide these kids, and those to come, to playoff status next season.
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Post by burythehammer on Oct 3, 2015 12:07:18 GMT -5
I am not one of these people who blames everything on the manager and calls for them to be fired at the drop of a hat, but if you're seriously denying that John Farrell's job was at least in jeopardy, deservedly or not, after two straight last place finishes you're just being disingenuous. If I cared enough I'm sure I could find a credible source that says so, but it's so obvious to everyone I'm not going to waste my time.
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Post by auger1 on Oct 3, 2015 17:00:36 GMT -5
This isn't just one or two things. You also had him keeping Xander on the bench against LHP when Drew was OPS'ing about .400 against them in 2013 and then Farrell stating that Gomes earned the everyday job in the OF when he was OPS'ing under .500 vs. RHP while Nava was on the bench. And he'd take forever to drop veterans down in the lineup in favor of younger players who were hitting. He played Mookie last year when he had no choice and the season was already over. He didn't have much choice with Vazquez or Middlebrooks either. But if Mookie were on the team to start the season last year? I guarantee Sizemore, Carp and Victorino would have gotten the playing time. He takes way too long to show confidence in young players, which probably doesn't help their confidence either. And what does showing confidence in veterans who are playing terribly for way too long show? This isn't anything new with him. Blue Jays fans were as pissed off as most of us have been regarding his lineup decisions. He isn't going to change and most of it is hard to defend. If Blue Jay fans were so pissed about his decisions why weren't they cheering when he left? I got the impression from all the boos that they were pissed that he deserted their team. Guess some, at least, wanted him to stay. At any rate, Dombrowski is committed to him assuming his health and recovery permit a full time commitment to manage. I'd like to see him guide these kids, and those to come, to playoff status next season. Blue Jays fans were very happy Farrell left. He was not well liked by the fans during his stay. I think the boos were to show him they thought he sucked
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Oct 3, 2015 20:08:57 GMT -5
Righteous. People shouldn't lose their job because of illness, no matter the occupation. Illness is not why people want to get rid of Farrell. I'm not sure personally. I've always been suspicious of Farrell's ability to handle young players, and it is kind of interesting how the team's young core seemed to blossom as soon as he left, but clearly there's other reasons for it working out that way. Still though, nothing that's happened since he's been gone indicates that Farrell is essential to the future success of this organization. Xander blossomed well before that. I think alot of people are making a big assumption regarding the teams play once Farrell left the team. It's possible it is a coincidence or maybe his illness inspired them, who knows.
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Post by okin15 on Oct 3, 2015 22:01:20 GMT -5
My gut is to prefer Lovullo as well, but he should have been able to improve Farrell's decision makeing from behind the scenes, as that was his job at the time. It's not like we can say he's just been a success everywhere he has been (though he was good as the Pawtucket manager). Still, seems like it would be a shame to lose him, and I think that happens if he's not manager. Was kind of hoping Farrell would become the GM (in title only) but if they want to keep Torey, the'll have to find a different option that satisfies John. And I agree that he needs to suggest the move himself or it doesn't happen.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 3, 2015 23:04:49 GMT -5
If Blue Jay fans were so pissed about his decisions why weren't they cheering when he left? I got the impression from all the boos that they were pissed that he deserted their team. Guess some, at least, wanted him to stay. At any rate, Dombrowski is committed to him assuming his health and recovery permit a full time commitment to manage. I'd like to see him guide these kids, and those to come, to playoff status next season. Blue Jays fans were very happy Farrell left. He was not well liked by the fans during his stay. I think the boos were to show him they thought he sucked It's sad that this type of characterization should be attributed to John Farrell even if it's your interpretation of the Toronto fans opinion. Talk about kicking a guy when he's down. I pray for his recovery and look forward to his taking out the lineup on opening day 2016.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 4, 2015 8:13:32 GMT -5
Blue Jays fans were very happy Farrell left. He was not well liked by the fans during his stay. I think the boos were to show him they thought he sucked It's sad that this type of characterization should be attributed to John Farrell even if it's your interpretation of the Toronto fans opinion. Talk about kicking a guy when he's down. I pray for his recovery and look forward to his taking out the lineup on opening day 2016. You really think no one was complaining about him before he was diagnosed with cancer?
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 4, 2015 10:51:19 GMT -5
It's sad that this type of characterization should be attributed to John Farrell even if it's your interpretation of the Toronto fans opinion. Talk about kicking a guy when he's down. I pray for his recovery and look forward to his taking out the lineup on opening day 2016. You really think no one was complaining about him before he was diagnosed with cancer? No. But using that terminology does nothing to promote a healthy discourse.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 4, 2015 11:08:37 GMT -5
@peteabe: #RedSox announce that Farrell will return as manager.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 4, 2015 11:08:48 GMT -5
@peteabe: Torey Lovullo has signed a new two-year contract as bench coach.
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