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Post by Jonathan Singer on Oct 1, 2015 21:37:50 GMT -5
10/2 Red Sox (LHP Henry Owens 4-3 3.84) @ Indians (RHP Josh Tomlin 6-2 3.03) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI10/3 Red Sox (TBD) @ Indians (RHP Corey Kluber 8-16 3.62) 7:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEI10/4 Red Sox (RHP Rick Porcello 9-14 5.02) @ Indians (RHP Danny Salazar 13-10 3.51) 3:10 pm ET, NESN/WEEIMLB StandingsRed Sox Hitting StatsRed Sox Pitching StatsMLB ScoreboardMLB TransactionsWeatherSeries Thread Disclaimer: The SoxProspects Moderators will be somewhat liberal in policing the Red Sox "Series" Threads. Some of the Ground Rules are applied loosely in here, as we understand that there is a tendency to want to react (or overreact) to every play of a Sox game with one line reactionary posts. Those posts are okay in the Red Sox Series threads to a point - we certainly appreciate the passion. Just try not to overdo it, and try to maintain some semblance of reason. In addition, please don't let those type of posts spill over to other more substantive threads, where they may be deleted. -The Management
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Post by blizzards39 on Oct 1, 2015 22:22:47 GMT -5
3-0 to finish .500
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Oct 1, 2015 22:32:18 GMT -5
tiebreakers NL: NYM has tie over LAD CHC has tie over PIT tiebreakers AL: TOR has tie over KC HOU has tie over NYY all based on head-to-head espn.go.com/mlb/standings/gridat 87-75: TEX would host the Monday tiebreaker game vs HOUS. if NYY also 87-75, TEX also has the tiebreaker vs. NYY and would host the TUES wildcard game, if TEX lost on MON. MONDAY tiebreaker game for Wildcard #2, homefield: HOUS has tie over LAA LAA has tie over MINN MINN has tie over HOU LAA has the 3-way tiebreaker. (h2h among all 3) |
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Post by klostrophobic on Oct 2, 2015 1:16:09 GMT -5
Corey Kluber is 8-16. That seems almost completely impossible. Has there ever been a better pitcher with a worse record? I find it hard to believe you could find the 9th best pitcher by fWAR in any given year and find him to have a 33.3 winning pct.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 2, 2015 8:26:35 GMT -5
Corey Kluber is 8-16. That seems almost completely impossible. Has there ever been a better pitcher with a worse record? I find it hard to believe you could find the 9th best pitcher by fWAR in any given year and find him to have a 33.3 winning pct. First one that popped into my head: in 1992 Jim Abbott was 7-15 with a 2.77 ERA and 5.8 bWAR, good for 7th in the American League. And similarly to Kluber, he'd been excellent in the previous season, finishing third for the Cy Young and second in the AL in bWAR. The big difference, though - the 1992 Angels were the worst-hitting team in the league by quite a bit, while the '15 Indians were merely below average. So yeah, very strange season. |
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Post by Nick Rabasco2 on Oct 2, 2015 9:26:50 GMT -5
More recently, there was Cliff Lee's 2012 when he made 30 starts, 211 IP, 3.16/3.13/3.06 and 5 WAR with a record of 6-9
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 2, 2015 10:42:14 GMT -5
Mike Mussina was 11-15 in 2000 with 6.2 fWAR. Nolan Ryan was 8-16 in 1987 with 6.4 fWAR. Here's a quick fg filter for pitchers since 1980 with more than 5 WAR sorted by most losses. LinkIn fact, Roger Clemens was 10-13 for the Red Sox in his last season with them with a 6.8 WAR season in 1996. And the dumb@$$es thought he might be finished. |
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 2, 2015 12:35:25 GMT -5
Corey Kluber is 8-16. That seems almost completely impossible. Has there ever been a better pitcher with a worse record? I find it hard to believe you could find the 9th best pitcher by fWAR in any given year and find him to have a 33.3 winning pct. First one that popped into my head: in 1992 Jim Abbott was 7-15 with a 2.77 ERA and 5.8 bWAR, good for 7th in the American League. And similarly to Kluber, he'd been excellent in the previous season, finishing third for the Cy Young and second in the AL in bWAR. The big difference, though - the 1992 Angels were the worst-hitting team in the league by quite a bit, while the '15 Indians were merely below average. So yeah, very strange season. Nolan Ryan matched that 8-16 record with a league leading 2.76 ERA in the hitters' year of 1987 at the age of 40. He also had 270Ks (which he'd top 2 years later surpassing 300Ks at the age of 42!) and a league leading FIP of 2.47, too. Ryan was a pretty fair pitcher. |
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Post by soxfanatic on Oct 2, 2015 13:19:43 GMT -5
Bogey needs six more hits to get to 200. Unlikely, but not impossible.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2015 13:29:12 GMT -5
Bogey needs six more hits to get to 200. Unlikely, but not impossible. He hit 194 and decided to start being more selective. |
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 2, 2015 14:50:02 GMT -5
First one that popped into my head: in 1992 Jim Abbott was 7-15 with a 2.77 ERA and 5.8 bWAR, good for 7th in the American League. And similarly to Kluber, he'd been excellent in the previous season, finishing third for the Cy Young and second in the AL in bWAR. The big difference, though - the 1992 Angels were the worst-hitting team in the league by quite a bit, while the '15 Indians were merely below average. So yeah, very strange season. Nolan Ryan matched that 8-16 record with a league leading 2.76 ERA in the hitters' year of 1987 at the age of 40. He also had 270Ks (which he'd top 2 years later surpassing 300Ks at the age of 42!) and a league leading FIP of 2.47, too. Ryan was a pretty fair pitcher. On the opposite spectrum, Steve Carlton's 1972 season was probably one of the most fascinating in baseball history, when he won 27 of his team's 59 victories. Look at how terrible the team was. Safe to say the entire starting rotation didn't make a bunch of "I'm the ace" t-shirts. www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=1972&month=0&season1=1972&ind=0&team=26&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0 |
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Post by ray88h66 on Oct 2, 2015 15:41:33 GMT -5
It's been a great second half. 500 would be the icing on the cake. Never thought they'd be as bad as they were in the first half. Thought they'd be better once the dead wood was cleared out, but not this good. Get some pitching help{big time front of the rotation guy,and bullpen help} and the Sox will have a real chance next year. |
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Post by Guidas on Oct 2, 2015 18:29:15 GMT -5
Owens absolutely lost right now.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 2, 2015 18:44:37 GMT -5
Aaaaaaand the next inning he finds his FB and the strike zone. Like the good old DiceK days.
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Post by wskeleton76 on Oct 2, 2015 19:09:27 GMT -5
Xander's defense is horrible of late.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Oct 2, 2015 19:10:12 GMT -5
I was hoping for a good audition by Hank in front of the Idians FO :/
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Post by Guidas on Oct 2, 2015 19:21:54 GMT -5
The BigPapi, ladies and gentlemen. This team is nothing without him
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Post by wskeleton76 on Oct 2, 2015 19:58:25 GMT -5
Owen's command is really poor. His curve can't draw swing and miss. Looks to need one more seasoning In minor.
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Post by Nick Rabasco2 on Oct 2, 2015 20:05:05 GMT -5
Good AB resulting in a walk for Xander seems like a good time to point out he had an 8.1% BB rate in September
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 2, 2015 20:09:11 GMT -5
Every start Henry Owens has had seen some amazing confirmation bias for both his detractors and believers. He's probably the most polarizing high-level prospect I've come across in my time with SoxProspects. Every time he walks a guy or gives up a home run it's proof that his stuff won't work in the majors. Every swing-and-miss on a 91-mph fastball proves that it will. It's kind of fascinating.
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Post by charliezink16 on Oct 2, 2015 21:59:15 GMT -5
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2015 23:22:01 GMT -5
Love the Benny comments
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Post by dcsoxfan on Oct 2, 2015 23:48:10 GMT -5
Every start Henry Owens has had seen some amazing confirmation bias for both his detractors and believers. He's probably the most polarizing high-level prospect I've come across in my time with SoxProspects. Every time he walks a guy or gives up a home run it's proof that his stuff won't work in the majors. Every swing-and-miss on a 91-mph fastball proves that it will. It's kind of fascinating. Henry Owens has become something of a straw man for the two "camps" on this site. Camp A believes prospects are over-valued and the best thing to with most of them is trade them. Camp B believes prospects are under-valued and you should mostly avoid trading the ones with genuinely high upside. And most posters have a foot in both camps (full disclosure: I probably fall more clearly in Camp B than all but a few). Henry Owens is a high-risk, medium to high upside prospect, who flashes signs of being a genuinely high upside prospect (although scouts don't view him as a legitimately high upside prospect). Every home run confirms Camp A's beliefs; every strikeout confirms Camp B. In many ways, I see Henry Owens as the "proxy" for a larger debate over whether prospects are over-valued or under-valued. I think a similar dynamic is in place with respect to Manuel Margot. |
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Oct 3, 2015 0:22:10 GMT -5
Every start Henry Owens has had seen some amazing confirmation bias for both his detractors and believers. He's probably the most polarizing high-level prospect I've come across in my time with SoxProspects. Every time he walks a guy or gives up a home run it's proof that his stuff won't work in the majors. Every swing-and-miss on a 91-mph fastball proves that it will. It's kind of fascinating. Henry Owens has become something of a straw man for the two "camps" on this site. Camp A believes prospects are over-valued and the best thing to with most of them is trade them. Camp B believes prospects are under-valued and you should mostly avoid trading the ones with genuinely high upside. And most posters have a foot in both camps (full disclosure: I probably fall more clearly in Camp B than all but a few). Henry Owens is a high-risk, medium to high upside prospect, who flashes signs of being a genuinely high upside prospect (although scouts don't view him as a legitimately high upside prospect). Every home run confirms Camp A's beliefs; every strikeout confirms Camp B. In many ways, I see Henry Owens as the "proxy" for a larger debate over whether prospects are over-valued or under-valued. I think a similar dynamic is in place with respect to Manuel Margot. IMO, there is a camp "C" losely aligned to Camp "A" which actively advocates trading anyone and everyone, from XB to Pedey, Papi to Mookie, Buch to ERod. Such is life. |
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danr
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Post by danr on Oct 3, 2015 9:24:37 GMT -5
I don't think judgments can be made on player performances at this point. The season is over and most of them probably are exhausted.
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