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Guns...
Oct 6, 2015 19:44:51 GMT -5
Post by libertine on Oct 6, 2015 19:44:51 GMT -5
After what seems like the 1,275,317 mass shooting in the US this century my question is when, if ever, are we going to do something about the problem?
For full disclosure I am very liberal. I characterize my politics as Libertarian Socialist (google it if you don't know it, but it is very similar to what Noam Chomsky espouses). But I am not anti-gun. In fact in my view people should have the right to bear arms, a right given to us by our founders. I am also an environmentalist who has no problem with hunting. I think hunters help fill the void left by the expiration of all the alpha predators in our ecosystem. Most behave in an ethical way making sure that they hunt humanely to minimize the suffering of the prey animals, and only take animals that are in plentiful supply (except that jerk dentist from Minnesota who thought it was cool to kill an endangered species for a big fee).
BUT
Houston, we have a problem. This country is heavily armed with basically no constraints on who can legally purchase guns. Background checks are minimal at best and many people who have mental illnesses, or are mentally unstable, have absolutely no problem getting guns, and as many of them as they want.
I live in Connecticut. So I followed the aftermath of the Newtown shooting very closely. I could never figure out the parental wisdom of allowing a child who exhibits mental health issues to have access to firearms. In fact not only was he allowed to have firearms he was encouraged to do so. Fast forward to Oregon and it was almost exactly the same case except the shooter didn't kill mom before going on his rampage.
I understand the gun culture. I know gun enthusiast parents introduce their kids to guns at a very young age. In fact I can remember a case about 20+ years ago when an eight year old kid was killed at a gun show in western Massachusetts when his father let him operate an Uzi, which the kid wasn't strong enough to control and ended up shooting himself in the head. Something was done in the wake of that tragedy to make sure it wasn't repeated but nothing is being done about our ongoing national self massacre.
There has been a lot of talk by gun proponents about the need for mental health screenings/care instead of stricter gun laws. I am all in favor of that. But it needs to be paid for. Are gun owners willing to accept a tax when purchasing guns and/or ammo to fund it? It is their hobby that is causing a need for this to be done. Safe to say I am all in favor of better mental health care in this country because dumping mentally ill people on the street or locking them up just because of mental illness is no care at all. Never mind allowing the mentally ill access to high powered weaponry.
Also some thoughts about the gun "zealots", as I call them. It is almost like a cult where the gun is worshipped. No limits can be placed on gun ownership up to, and including, owning tanks in some of these zealot's minds. My ex-business partner was a NRA instructor and one of these zealots. Often times these zealots claim we need to be armed just in case we have to rise up against our government in case it becomes tyrannical. I am sorry, but if you think your tiny cache of weapons will be any kind of impediment to a US military takeover of this country you are delusional and thereby disqualified to own guns under the mental health exclusion. Jade Helm is not an exercise by the US government to practice sending out the black helicopters to seize all your guns, send you to FEMA indoctrination centers, and to force you into gay marriage under the tyranny of affordable health care. But it seems people opposed to any kind of common sense limits on gun ownership see conspiracies everywhere, including the "any limit on the guns we own will result in a complete loss of 2nd amendment rights. I am going to use an extreme, and intentionally inflammatory analogy. If we apply the pro-gun lobby's absolutist logic to the 1st amendment it should be legal to possess child pornography since any limit on speech represents a complete loss of 1st amendment rights. Limits are rightly put on the 1st amendment and there is no reason some much needed limits can't be put on the 2nd amendment. |
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Guns...
Oct 6, 2015 21:02:46 GMT -5
Post by terriblehondo on Oct 6, 2015 21:02:46 GMT -5
I feel your frustration.
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Guns...
Oct 6, 2015 21:35:05 GMT -5
Post by njsox on Oct 6, 2015 21:35:05 GMT -5
And what does this have to do with Red Sox prospects?
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Post by libertine on Oct 6, 2015 21:57:13 GMT -5
And what does this have to do with Red Sox prospects? Not a thing. But the reason that the OT sub-forum was established was discuss things not having anything to do with Sox Prospects. |
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Guns...
Oct 6, 2015 21:58:52 GMT -5
Post by libertine on Oct 6, 2015 21:58:52 GMT -5
It is more than frustration. It is bewilderment. I refuse to accept the premise that these mass gun killings are "the price we have to pay for freedom". |
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Guns...
Oct 6, 2015 22:10:25 GMT -5
Post by blizzards39 on Oct 6, 2015 22:10:25 GMT -5
Canada has much stricter gun laws and restrictions and still has these shootings. its an unfortunate byproduct of the invention of the firearm. There are literally millions of firearms in the world and no matter how many registration programs/ restrictions/ programs/ ect that you institute, you will not eliminate this problem. Firearms are so easy to obtain and the harder that it becomes the more that the under market gun world would prosper. Im not sure that there is an answer. This is such an unfortunate problem. God bless all who have been affected.
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Guns...
Oct 6, 2015 22:13:46 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by m1keyboots on Oct 6, 2015 22:13:46 GMT -5
Down here in VA if you go south of Centreville people swear by God that more guns are needed. I'm like "More armed road ragers and wannabe militia Rambos walkin around" Then I just leave the convo. They will never change my mind, and me not theirs
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Post by m1keyboots on Oct 6, 2015 22:14:48 GMT -5
Canada has much stricter gun laws and restrictions and still has these shootings. its an unfortunate byproduct of the invention of the firearm. There are literally millions of firearms in the world and no matter how many registration programs/ restrictions/ programs/ ect that you institute, you will not eliminate this problem. Firearms are so easy to obtain and the harder that it becomes the more that the under market gun world would prosper. Im not sure that there is an answer. This is such an unfortunate problem. God bless all who have been affected. I beg to differ, I lived in Germany and Holland for a combined 10 years with strict gun laws and no shootings.. |
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Guns...
Oct 6, 2015 23:00:44 GMT -5
Post by blizzards39 on Oct 6, 2015 23:00:44 GMT -5
Canada has much stricter gun laws and restrictions and still has these shootings. its an unfortunate byproduct of the invention of the firearm. There are literally millions of firearms in the world and no matter how many registration programs/ restrictions/ programs/ ect that you institute, you will not eliminate this problem. Firearms are so easy to obtain and the harder that it becomes the more that the under market gun world would prosper. Im not sure that there is an answer. This is such an unfortunate problem. God bless all who have been affected. I beg to differ, I lived in Germany and Holland for a combined 10 years with strict gun laws and no shootings.. Well I have never lived or been there but as far as I recall one of the most famous shootings in the history of the world took place in Germany involving the Israeli Olympic team. Also the Lorach Hospital shooting, Winnenden school shooting, Ridderhoff Mall shooting. Just to name a few. I don't really think that this is something that a person should be arguing about. I was just making the point that once the world and countries have guns, it is impossible to get rid of them and that they will cause problems. |
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Guns...
Oct 6, 2015 23:23:39 GMT -5
Post by blizzards39 on Oct 6, 2015 23:23:39 GMT -5
I beg to differ, I lived in Germany and Holland for a combined 10 years with strict gun laws and no shootings.. Well I have never lived or been there but as far as I recall one of the most famous shootings in the history of the world took place in Germany involving the Israeli Olympic team. Also the Lorach Hospital shooting, Winnenden school shooting, Ridderhoff Mall shooting. Just to name a few. I don't really think that this is something that a person should be arguing about. I was just making the point that once the world and countries have guns, it is impossible to get rid of them and that they will cause problems. Don't want to dwell on this but I just did some research and Germany is actually one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to shootings. I don't want to get into a battle here and Im not going to start listing incidents but come on man. |
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Post by greenmonsterwhalers on Oct 7, 2015 1:48:50 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 7, 2015 6:44:29 GMT -5
theantimedia.org/the-facts-that-neither-side-wants-to-admit-about-gun-control/I view gun control as giving more power and control to a government who doesn't want to fix any problems. This is a corrupt government involved in gun running for drug cartels going back many decades, so why would anyone trust them to make things better? The War on Guns will go just as well as the War on Poverty, Drugs and Terrorism and probably eventually Climate Change. Problems are only ever made worse. Freedom would be lost and only the non-criminals would be affected. Maybe someone should finally question Big Pharma as a start. When one in five people in this country are taking drugs that alter their brain chemistry with some percentage of the population suffering side effects of violent thoughts or suicide... And in the grand scheme of things, poverty and education are linked to homicide rates a lot more than legal gun ownership. This country is heading in the wrong direction on both cases there.
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Post by thegoo13 on Oct 7, 2015 8:47:42 GMT -5
After what seems like the 1,275,317 mass shooting in the US this century my question is when, if ever, are we going to do something about the problem?
For full disclosure I am very liberal. I characterize my politics as Libertarian Socialist (google it if you don't know it, but it is very similar to what Noam Chomsky espouses). But I am not anti-gun. In fact in my view people should have the right to bear arms, a right given to us by our founders. I am also an environmentalist who has no problem with hunting. I think hunters help fill the void left by the expiration of all the alpha predators in our ecosystem. Most behave in an ethical way making sure that they hunt humanely to minimize the suffering of the prey animals, and only take animals that are in plentiful supply (except that jerk dentist from Minnesota who thought it was cool to kill an endangered species for a big fee).
BUT
Houston, we have a problem. This country is heavily armed with basically no constraints on who can legally purchase guns. Background checks are minimal at best and many people who have mental illnesses, or are mentally unstable, have absolutely no problem getting guns, and as many of them as they want.
I live in Connecticut. So I followed the aftermath of the Newtown shooting very closely. I could never figure out the parental wisdom of allowing a child who exhibits mental health issues to have access to firearms. In fact not only was he allowed to have firearms he was encouraged to do so. Fast forward to Oregon and it was almost exactly the same case except the shooter didn't kill mom before going on his rampage.
I understand the gun culture. I know gun enthusiast parents introduce their kids to guns at a very young age. In fact I can remember a case about 20+ years ago when an eight year old kid was killed at a gun show in western Massachusetts when his father let him operate an Uzi, which the kid wasn't strong enough to control and ended up shooting himself in the head. Something was done in the wake of that tragedy to make sure it wasn't repeated but nothing is being done about our ongoing national self massacre.
There has been a lot of talk by gun proponents about the need for mental health screenings/care instead of stricter gun laws. I am all in favor of that. But it needs to be paid for. Are gun owners willing to accept a tax when purchasing guns and/or ammo to fund it? It is their hobby that is causing a need for this to be done. Safe to say I am all in favor of better mental health care in this country because dumping mentally ill people on the street or locking them up just because of mental illness is no care at all. Never mind allowing the mentally ill access to high powered weaponry.
Also some thoughts about the gun "zealots", as I call them. It is almost like a cult where the gun is worshipped. No limits can be placed on gun ownership up to, and including, owning tanks in some of these zealot's minds. My ex-business partner was a NRA instructor and one of these zealots. Often times these zealots claim we need to be armed just in case we have to rise up against our government in case it becomes tyrannical. I am sorry, but if you think your tiny cache of weapons will be any kind of impediment to a US military takeover of this country you are delusional and thereby disqualified to own guns under the mental health exclusion. Jade Helm is not an exercise by the US government to practice sending out the black helicopters to seize all your guns, send you to FEMA indoctrination centers, and to force you into gay marriage under the tyranny of affordable health care. But it seems people opposed to any kind of common sense limits on gun ownership see conspiracies everywhere, including the "any limit on the guns we own will result in a complete loss of 2nd amendment rights. I am going to use an extreme, and intentionally inflammatory analogy. If we apply the pro-gun lobby's absolutist logic to the 1st amendment it should be legal to possess child pornography since any limit on speech represents a complete loss of 1st amendment rights. Limits are rightly put on the 1st amendment and there is no reason some much needed limits can't be put on the 2nd amendment. Thank you for posting this. Thank the poster who said something along the lines of "how long do we have to pay this price for "freedom'?" and thank you to the poster who put up the real world gun violence statistics. Shame on everyone who tries to hide the truth,statistically or otherwise, about what this really is. I hope none of your loved ones is ever harmed by someone with a gun. That should never happen just so gun makers make insane profits. |
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966 
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Guns...
Oct 7, 2015 17:42:11 GMT -5
Post by jimoh on Oct 7, 2015 17:42:11 GMT -5
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Guns...
Oct 7, 2015 18:03:15 GMT -5
Post by charliezink16 on Oct 7, 2015 18:03:15 GMT -5
theantimedia.org/the-facts-that-neither-side-wants-to-admit-about-gun-control/I view gun control as giving more power and control to a government who doesn't want to fix any problems. This is a corrupt government involved in gun running for drug cartels going back many decades, so why would anyone trust them to make things better? The War on Guns will go just as well as the War on Poverty, Drugs and Terrorism and probably eventually Climate Change. Problems are only ever made worse. Freedom would be lost and only the non-criminals would be affected. Maybe someone should finally question Big Pharma as a start. When one in five people in this country are taking drugs that alter their brain chemistry with some percentage of the population suffering side effects of violent thoughts or suicide... And in the grand scheme of things, poverty and education are linked to homicide rates a lot more than legal gun ownership. This country is heading in the wrong direction on both cases there. Yes, this. I side with liberals on many issues but I strongly feel that people are overlooking some of the other potential causes behind these mass shootings. The media's constant glorification of each shooter is one of them. Can't find a better example than this... But the biggest issue that's overlooked really is Big Pharma. We're pushing these killer drugs to 11 and 12 year olds, thus creating lifelong customers. Pardon the source, but there's a clear connection between mass shootings and SSRI drugs. Let's stop acting like these massive pharmaceutical corporation actually care for people, please. If we're willing to give up these rights, we better be damn sure that guns really are the only reason behind these shootings. |
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Guns...
Oct 7, 2015 18:34:16 GMT -5
Post by libertine on Oct 7, 2015 18:34:16 GMT -5
After what seems like the 1,275,317 mass shooting in the US this century my question is when, if ever, are we going to do something about the problem?
For full disclosure I am very liberal. I characterize my politics as Libertarian Socialist (google it if you don't know it, but it is very similar to what Noam Chomsky espouses). But I am not anti-gun. In fact in my view people should have the right to bear arms, a right given to us by our founders. I am also an environmentalist who has no problem with hunting. I think hunters help fill the void left by the expiration of all the alpha predators in our ecosystem. Most behave in an ethical way making sure that they hunt humanely to minimize the suffering of the prey animals, and only take animals that are in plentiful supply (except that jerk dentist from Minnesota who thought it was cool to kill an endangered species for a big fee).
BUT
Houston, we have a problem. This country is heavily armed with basically no constraints on who can legally purchase guns. Background checks are minimal at best and many people who have mental illnesses, or are mentally unstable, have absolutely no problem getting guns, and as many of them as they want.
I live in Connecticut. So I followed the aftermath of the Newtown shooting very closely. I could never figure out the parental wisdom of allowing a child who exhibits mental health issues to have access to firearms. In fact not only was he allowed to have firearms he was encouraged to do so. Fast forward to Oregon and it was almost exactly the same case except the shooter didn't kill mom before going on his rampage.
I understand the gun culture. I know gun enthusiast parents introduce their kids to guns at a very young age. In fact I can remember a case about 20+ years ago when an eight year old kid was killed at a gun show in western Massachusetts when his father let him operate an Uzi, which the kid wasn't strong enough to control and ended up shooting himself in the head. Something was done in the wake of that tragedy to make sure it wasn't repeated but nothing is being done about our ongoing national self massacre.
There has been a lot of talk by gun proponents about the need for mental health screenings/care instead of stricter gun laws. I am all in favor of that. But it needs to be paid for. Are gun owners willing to accept a tax when purchasing guns and/or ammo to fund it? It is their hobby that is causing a need for this to be done. Safe to say I am all in favor of better mental health care in this country because dumping mentally ill people on the street or locking them up just because of mental illness is no care at all. Never mind allowing the mentally ill access to high powered weaponry.
Also some thoughts about the gun "zealots", as I call them. It is almost like a cult where the gun is worshipped. No limits can be placed on gun ownership up to, and including, owning tanks in some of these zealot's minds. My ex-business partner was a NRA instructor and one of these zealots. Often times these zealots claim we need to be armed just in case we have to rise up against our government in case it becomes tyrannical. I am sorry, but if you think your tiny cache of weapons will be any kind of impediment to a US military takeover of this country you are delusional and thereby disqualified to own guns under the mental health exclusion. Jade Helm is not an exercise by the US government to practice sending out the black helicopters to seize all your guns, send you to FEMA indoctrination centers, and to force you into gay marriage under the tyranny of affordable health care. But it seems people opposed to any kind of common sense limits on gun ownership see conspiracies everywhere, including the "any limit on the guns we own will result in a complete loss of 2nd amendment rights. I am going to use an extreme, and intentionally inflammatory analogy. If we apply the pro-gun lobby's absolutist logic to the 1st amendment it should be legal to possess child pornography since any limit on speech represents a complete loss of 1st amendment rights. Limits are rightly put on the 1st amendment and there is no reason some much needed limits can't be put on the 2nd amendment. Thank you for posting this. Thank the poster who said something along the lines of "how long do we have to pay this price for "freedom'?" and thank you to the poster who put up the real world gun violence statistics. Shame on everyone who tries to hide the truth,statistically or otherwise, about what this really is. I hope none of your loved ones is ever harmed by someone with a gun. That should never happen just so gun makers make insane profits. I was the one responsible for "the price for freedom" line also. Glad you liked and agreed with the posts.
Speaking of math. Let's have a little fun with the numbers. There are roughly 300,000,000 people in the US. And let's say 1/3 of them own guns, which would be 100,000,000. And the rate of mental illness in the country is 1% (which might actually be lowballing it). 1% of 100,000,000 is 1,000,000. So there could be 1,000,000 more massacres waiting to happen. Not all mentally ill people will act out on their illness with violence against others, most of them are only a threat to themselves. But whether it is 1,000,000 or 100,000 or even 10,000 that is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many.
Like I said I am not completely anti-gun. I support the 2nd amendment right for we the people to bear arms, even if I am not a gun owner and don't envision myself ever becoming one. My political philosophy is one that is based on protecting the rights of each American to the nth degree. But like I said in the opening post of this thread we have a national crisis on our hands with gun violence. As the old saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over (nothing) and expecting a different result (a reduction in deaths due to gun violence).
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Post by costpet on Oct 8, 2015 6:22:19 GMT -5
The Founding Fathers weren't perfect. They allowed slavery to continue (that cost about 650,000 American lives during the Civil War)and they added the 2nd Admen. If they were alive today, I don't think they would have put that in. The only way anything will ever be done is a repeal of that Admen. Then force everyone to register their guns and prove they are responsible. That includes gun safety. Leaving a loaded gun around the house for kids to find in incredibly dangerous. You know the rest. I find it interesting that mass killings actually increase gun sales. In some way, we're a sick country.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 8, 2015 6:53:15 GMT -5
Thank you for posting this. Thank the poster who said something along the lines of "how long do we have to pay this price for "freedom'?" and thank you to the poster who put up the real world gun violence statistics. Shame on everyone who tries to hide the truth,statistically or otherwise, about what this really is. I hope none of your loved ones is ever harmed by someone with a gun. That should never happen just so gun makers make insane profits. I was the one responsible for "the price for freedom" line also. Glad you liked and agreed with the posts.
Speaking of math. Let's have a little fun with the numbers. There are roughly 300,000,000 people in the US. And let's say 1/3 of them own guns, which would be 100,000,000. And the rate of mental illness in the country is 1% (which might actually be lowballing it). 1% of 100,000,000 is 1,000,000. So there could be 1,000,000 more massacres waiting to happen. Not all mentally ill people will act out on their illness with violence against others, most of them are only a threat to themselves. But whether it is 1,000,000 or 100,000 or even 10,000 that is waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many.
Like I said I am not completely anti-gun. I support the 2nd amendment right for we the people to bear arms, even if I am not a gun owner and don't envision myself ever becoming one. My political philosophy is one that is based on protecting the rights of each American to the nth degree. But like I said in the opening post of this thread we have a national crisis on our hands with gun violence. As the old saying goes, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over (nothing) and expecting a different result (a reduction in deaths due to gun violence).
The problem is how do you determine who is mentally ill? There is not a single scientific lab test to verify any mental illness, so it would be incredibly ridiculous to assume that any standard would be fairly administered. And those standards would change on a whim from year to year, like they do now to line up with new psych drugs and new disorders they invent for them. Hey, you must be mentally ill to want a gun. |
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Post by costpet on Oct 8, 2015 7:46:04 GMT -5
You're probably right. Tough to determine sanity. In a perfect world, no guns would be allowed at all. Just the police and military. Like in England and Japan. The cops don't even carry them there. See how safe that is? We kill more people in a weekend than they do all year. I wonder why.
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Guns...
Oct 9, 2015 0:41:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by m1keyboots on Oct 9, 2015 0:41:04 GMT -5
Well I have never lived or been there but as far as I recall one of the most famous shootings in the history of the world took place in Germany involving the Israeli Olympic team. Also the Lorach Hospital shooting, Winnenden school shooting, Ridderhoff Mall shooting. Just to name a few. I don't really think that this is something that a person should be arguing about. I was just making the point that once the world and countries have guns, it is impossible to get rid of them and that they will cause problems. Don't want to dwell on this but I just did some research and Germany is actually one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to shootings. I don't want to get into a battle here and Im not going to start listing incidents but come on man. Mass shootings? I don't remember any from Germany from 94-2000 my bad bro. I never saw a gunfight, or a gun except on officers of the law or IMPs. I live in Northern VA now going on 12 years and according to the news(doesn't matter the network) were all gonna die from gunshot wounds. Not arguing, but Germany before the wall came down was an entirely different country. In fact it was two countries...listing the shooting of the Israeli team in your reponse is like saying America is a hotbed for volcano activity bc mt st helens... |
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Post by costpet on Oct 9, 2015 6:27:24 GMT -5
Another school shooting. In AZ. One dead, several wounded. It's getting worse.
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Guns...
Nov 17, 2015 7:31:31 GMT -5
Post by jimed14 on Nov 17, 2015 7:31:31 GMT -5
I view gun control as giving more power and control to a government who doesn't want to fix any problems. This is a corrupt government... Are you one of those guys who believe that more guns in the hands of citizens are needed as a means of "overthrowing a tyrannical government by means of armed insurrection?" No. And don't even bother trying to pigeonhole the way I think into some idea presented by the media by associating me with any group of people. I guarantee you'll fail. |
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Guns...
Nov 22, 2015 13:42:43 GMT -5
Post by redsoxnh2014 on Nov 22, 2015 13:42:43 GMT -5
There are multiple issues creating the mass shooting sprees in America. Here are the problems as I see them, in order:
1. The sensationalist obsession in our culture. An obsession with celebrity status is an unfortunate sickness that will always seep through the human race, but nowhere is it worse than here in the USA. Go in a retail store right now and you'll see rows of magazines of the Blake Shelton/Miranda Lambert/Gwen Stefani triangle. Every time one of the Kardashians cuts a fart it ends up front-page news on MSN. Heck, our obsession with the British royal family is even worse than those who ARE British.
2. Inadequate background checks for guns. Why anyone opposes mandatory background checks for those purchasing firearms is beyond me. However, on the same token, anyone who believes background checks are a cure-all is naively deluding themselves for the simple fact that anyone who wants to carry out one of these shootings can do what Adam Lanza did and simply steal someone else's. So there needs to be some sort of balance to keep the guns in the hands of those who should have them and out of the hands of those who shouldn't.
3. A broken mental health system. There are fundraisers, foundations, etc everywhere for heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc (and should be!) but by and large we sweep mental health under the rug. The profession is often stigmatized, and patients even more so. You go to a doctor once a year for a physical checkup; doesn't hurt to once in a while have a mental checkup as well. But I digress. The bottom line is that #3 on this list combines #1 and #2. I personally believe the mass shootings are the result of people who are depressed, anti-social, possibly borderline personality, deciding "I'm go to end my own life, but I want to be famous!" Take that attitude, mix it with easy access to firearms, this is what you get.
Is there a solution? Certainly. In fact I have an idea that would be a solution to a LOT of problems. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are both promising "free 2-year college" (on a side note, of all the political double-talk and nonsense we're hearing from both sides, nothing irks me more than the perpetual use of the word "free", almost exclusively from Democrats. It's not "free"; the government is just forcing someone else to pay for it for you. So call it what it is: taxpayer-funded). Our college campuses are being torn apart by overindulged, entitlement-minded students who are basically immature children throwing temper tantrums. We have a rash of irresponsible gun ownership. Many young people are only working in unskilled labor and are demanding a minimum wage that isn't economically feasible. There's a simple way to solve it all, and that is to adopt the Switzerland model.
That means mandatory service in the armed forces. You can have the taxpayer-funded education Clinton and Sanders want, but you're going to go through a program similar to the National Guard in which you will learn the values of respect, integrity, and personal accountability. And yes, mandatory training in the proper and responsible use of firearms. Also, you are not going to be pursuing some useless general degree; your taxpayer-funded education will be for a skilled profession of your choosing so when you graduate you will be a skilled worker.
If you want your country to serve you with an education you will in turn serve your country. It'll never happen of course (the left would raise holy hell), but Switzerland is near the top of the list in gun ownership and the bottom of the list in gun crime. The numbers speak for themselves.
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Post by ray88h66 on Nov 22, 2015 15:01:26 GMT -5
I come here for baseball and have no plans to start talking politics or social issues. Just want to thank you folks for a good thread. Enjoyed reading it.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2015 10:34:57 GMT -5
Maybe if kids weren't untouchable, literally, then they would learn some respect for society. These kids have no fear, because they can't be touched.
Acting out in class.
Teacher: "go to the office"
Student: "no you can't make me"
Then nothing happens. You get a cop who loses his job for wrestling a student who's refusing to move out of a chair. Are you kidding me? Seriously, even if the student broke an arm, I'd blame the student there.
No I'm not for child abuse, but there is a distinct reason why for millennia youngsters were disciplined with some force. Now you can't even grab a kids arm without it being child abuse and discipline goes to ****.
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