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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 10, 2015 3:17:58 GMT -5
That's one thing I'm interested in seeing this year. If under this new regime, they'll be more aggressive promoting players through the system than they were under Cherington; or if everything stays the same, something to keep an eye on. I'm not so sure you can compare that really. Xander spent 79 games at AA over two partial seasons and 60 at AAA. Betts had like 50 games at each. Erod made 6 starts at AA and 8 at AAA. My point essentially being, they actually have been aggressive when the talent has dictated it. I think if Moncada and Benintendi continue to rake, they'll be brought along swiftly as well. Devers and Espinoza might be a different story tho. No real reason to start their service time before they've matured physically.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 10, 2015 7:48:57 GMT -5
Yeah, they've been very aggressive with some. One could argue too aggressive at times. If Benintendi and Moncada are raking they'll get promoted. That doesn't necessarily mean all the way to Boston, although either could get a Sept callup. 2017 is the more likely arrival for both - unless there are developmental setbacks.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Dec 10, 2015 8:47:06 GMT -5
That's one thing I'm interested in seeing this year. If under this new regime, they'll be more aggressive promoting players through the system than they were under Cherington; or if everything stays the same, something to keep an eye on. Eh. When I look back to last season, the FO looked pretty agressive in promoting some prospects (Aro and Jerez) but I'll be very interested to see how they do it under the new regime: For example, they used to start the advanced college hitters in High A, wait till the CL ASG, then move them to AA (if they perform of course), will they d things differently this year? Get them say a 100 AB and if they dominate, move them to AA? I would like them to do that, we'll see.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 10, 2015 9:57:51 GMT -5
That's one thing I'm interested in seeing this year. If under this new regime, they'll be more aggressive promoting players through the system than they were under Cherington; or if everything stays the same, something to keep an eye on. I'm not so sure you can compare that really. Xander spent 79 games at AA over two partial seasons and 60 at AAA. Betts had like 50 games at each. Erod made 6 starts at AA and 8 at AAA. My point essentially being, they actually have been aggressive when the talent has dictated it. I think if Moncada and Benintendi continue to rake, they'll be brought along swiftly as well. Devers and Espinoza might be a different story tho. No real reason to start their service time before they've matured physically. Yeah, I never got the feeling the RS ever held anyone back if they deserved to be promoted. Cherington just never traded any of these prospects. If DD was here, Cecchini, Coyle, Renaudo, Lavarnway would probably have been moved when they had some value. I know hindsight is 20/20, just looking at his trading of prospect history with Detroit & now with us.
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Post by m1keyboots on Dec 11, 2015 4:33:15 GMT -5
I feel like even if JBJ regressed at the plate and rusney doesn't become the 20-20 we want to see, their combined d will still be the strength of this club. JBJ goes and gets them, Rusney might be closer in arm strength to jbj Than I thought, and Mookie has that quick release and is accurate. Mookie leading off, rusney and JBJ somewhere between 6 and 8...that's a win for the price (which really only comes from Rusney) The arm strength or lack there of when talking about betts, is why I think betts should be in left and castillo in right next season. I am good with leaving Bradley in center, I was just talking about the quick release, and accuracy. His ability to get throws off with no crow hop, probably from his infielder days. I think that makes up for it.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 11, 2015 8:24:36 GMT -5
I would lump Betts and Castillo as similar in defense, either one could play LF or RF probably around the same. I believe though with the Wall, Castillo looked very comfortable. I feel if played Betts there, he would also look ok as well.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 11, 2015 9:02:32 GMT -5
Let him go out and win a gold glove, prove he can hit for a full season and then trade him for even more value when Benintendi is ready. I think Bradley's defense is amazing. Sometimes I think he is moving before the batter swings. I think he will be a very streaky hitter next season and will take several years to get real consistentcy. I think Castillo is a walking banana (eternally injured). Benintendi is our future left fielder. Maybe in 2017. In fact ESPN did one of there scientific looks at a great play he made last year and he did in fact take a step or 2 before the ball was hit. I will see if I can find it on this thing they call the internet.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 11, 2015 11:05:43 GMT -5
I think Bradley's defense is amazing. Sometimes I think he is moving before the batter swings. I think he will be a very streaky hitter next season and will take several years to get real consistentcy. I think Castillo is a walking banana (eternally injured). Benintendi is our future left fielder. Maybe in 2017. In fact ESPN did one of there scientific looks at a great play he made last year and he did in fact take a step or 2 before the ball was hit. I will see if I can find it on this thing they call the internet. Like Joe Jackson leaning or shifting weight in Field Of Dreams.....It must be a combination of picking up the catchers sign, reading the catcher, reading the ball out of the pitchers hand, hitters tendencies, ect. I don't think some of these skills can be taught. As with most elite ML's, he has a lot of god given talent.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 11, 2015 12:44:06 GMT -5
I think Bradley's defense is amazing. Sometimes I think he is moving before the batter swings. I think he will be a very streaky hitter next season and will take several years to get real consistentcy. I think Castillo is a walking banana (eternally injured). Benintendi is our future left fielder. Maybe in 2017. Who knows. Maybe Benintendi is the starter by September. I think a good year has him play couple months in high A, then off to AA. A great year has him spend last month in AAA. I see almost 0% chance he plays in majors next year.
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Post by ramireja on Dec 11, 2015 14:30:52 GMT -5
Who here would do a JBJ/Soler swap? It would make sense from the perspective of the Sox and Cubs, given that our current alignment has 2 CF (if not 3) in our OF, whereas the Cubs have 3 corner OF and no true CF.
Edit. I should note, I'm not sure I'd even take this deal. I had to look at Soler's numbers from last year which weren't pretty. I'd much prefer Castillo for Soler...
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 11, 2015 14:35:36 GMT -5
Who here would do a JBJ/Soler swap? It would make sense from the perspective of the Sox and Cubs, given that our current alignment has 2 CF (if not 3) in our OF, whereas the Cubs have 3 corner OF and no true CF. Edit. I should note, I'm not sure I'd even take this deal. I had to look at Soler's numbers from last year which weren't pretty. I'd much prefer Castillo for Soler... Currently it looks like JBJ is just a straight-up better player than Soler no matter at what position.
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Post by ramireja on Dec 11, 2015 14:43:58 GMT -5
Who here would do a JBJ/Soler swap? It would make sense from the perspective of the Sox and Cubs, given that our current alignment has 2 CF (if not 3) in our OF, whereas the Cubs have 3 corner OF and no true CF. Edit. I should note, I'm not sure I'd even take this deal. I had to look at Soler's numbers from last year which weren't pretty. I'd much prefer Castillo for Soler... Currently it looks like JBJ is just a straight-up better player than Soler no matter at what position. Currently, yeah....a year ago it would have been unfathomable that we could get a Soler type for JBJ. It goes to show how much can change in a year. That said, I'm pretty split on who would put up the better offensive year in 2016. Given that JBJ has considerably more value on defense, I suppose it wouldn't be our best interest to make this deal.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 11, 2015 16:22:31 GMT -5
I just don't see how or why Soler could be considered the centerpiece of a deal for a cost controlled elite pitcher. His defensive numbers haven't looked good, his strikeout rate remains a major concern, and he only posted a 96 wRC+ despite a .361 BABIP.
I guess it's on power potential and some crazy numbers in the minors? At least it's a given that JBJ will put up elite defensive numbers and can potentially be a multiple WAR guy even with a bad bat.
Many of the same things that IMO keep Soler from being the centerpiece type guy resonate with Baez as well. I just don't get it. Maybe it's all speculation and GM's aren't actually considering either of those guys as the main piece in a deal. If I'm a team with a cost controlled top starter and I'm talking with the Cubs, it must start with Schwarber
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 11, 2015 17:00:47 GMT -5
I just don't see how or why Soler could be considered the centerpiece of a deal for a cost controlled elite pitcher. His defensive numbers haven't looked good, his strikeout rate remains a major concern, and he only posted a 96 wRC+ despite a .361 BABIP. I guess it's on power potential and some crazy numbers in the minors? At least it's a given that JBJ will put up elite defensive numbers and can potentially be a multiple WAR guy even with a bad bat. Many of the same things that IMO keep Soler from being the centerpiece type guy resonate with Baez as well. I just don't get it. Maybe it's all speculation and GM's aren't actually considering either of those guys as the main piece in a deal. If I'm a team with a cost controlled top starter and I'm talking with the Cubs, it must start with Schwarber I get what you're saying. Schwarber's no defensive stud either though, and both have very small track records. So yeah, it comes down to how a team projects them.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 11, 2015 17:19:53 GMT -5
But Schwarber has an easily projectable elite bat and produced as such as a 22 year old
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 13, 2015 10:49:25 GMT -5
I just don't see how or why Soler could be considered the centerpiece of a deal for a cost controlled elite pitcher. His defensive numbers haven't looked good, his strikeout rate remains a major concern, and he only posted a 96 wRC+ despite a .361 BABIP. I guess it's on power potential and some crazy numbers in the minors? At least it's a given that JBJ will put up elite defensive numbers and can potentially be a multiple WAR guy even with a bad bat. Many of the same things that IMO keep Soler from being the centerpiece type guy resonate with Baez as well. I just don't get it. Maybe it's all speculation and GM's aren't actually considering either of those guys as the main piece in a deal. If I'm a team with a cost controlled top starter and I'm talking with the Cubs, it must start with Schwarber I had forgotten that Soler hit 474 .600 1.105 1.705 with 3 hrs in 7 games in the post-season. Just a few games, but still, 3 hrs added to 10 in the regular season.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Dec 13, 2015 11:46:48 GMT -5
But Schwarber has an easily projectable elite bat and produced as such as a 22 year old So Schwarber is awesome because he has a projectable bat and was 22 last season, while Soler is of little value because while he has a projectable bat, but was 23??? This is even more odd of a position to take when you consider that Soler played 25 games in the MLB as a 22 year old and posted insane video game stats. Soler's problem last year was a raise in k rate. The highest rate he had ever posted at any level was a 24.7% rate in the MLB in 2014. Somehow it jumped to 30% last year. I think we should all be familiar with young players with all the tools in the world to be a star having difficulties adjusting to changes in their first seasons in the pros. (Xander, Bradley, Machado, etc) Soler will be an offensive stud. Howver he has little defensive value and there is a very real possibility that JBJ can be more valuable based on his all around game than a near full ceiling Soler. So I honestly would pass.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 13, 2015 12:01:47 GMT -5
But Schwarber has an easily projectable elite bat and produced as such as a 22 year old So Schwarber is awesome because he has a projectable bat and was 22 last season, while Soler is of little value because while he has a projectable bat, but was 23??? This is even more odd of a position to take when you consider that Soler played 25 games in the MLB as a 22 year old and posted insane video game stats. I think just about everyone would say that Schwarber's bat is way more exciting than Soler's. It's not an all or nothing thing on the value, but Soler's k-rate along with a big drop in power tells me he's probably getting the Xander treatment and he's having trouble with it.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 13, 2015 13:17:41 GMT -5
Schwarber's bat was considered elite before he hit the bigs, then hit at an elite level in the bigs. Soler's bat was considered probably elite before he hit the bigs, and has not hit at an elite level in the bigs. It has nothing to do with one being 22 and one being 23. It's the fact that one of them has produced at the MLB level over an extended period of time and one has not
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Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 14, 2015 10:28:39 GMT -5
Schwarber's bat was considered elite before he hit the bigs, then hit at an elite level in the bigs. Soler's bat was considered probably elite before he hit the bigs, and has not hit at an elite level in the bigs. It has nothing to do with one being 22 and one being 23. It's the fact that one of them has produced at the MLB level over an extended period of time and one has not Scwarber is the anti JBJ....all bat, no set defensive position &/or a defensive liability....could he catch FT?. Didn't look good in the OF in the playoffs. Could he play 1B?
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 14, 2015 10:31:49 GMT -5
It's amazing how a little more than a months stretch can change everyone's view of a player.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 14, 2015 17:44:20 GMT -5
Schwarber's bat was considered elite before he hit the bigs, then hit at an elite level in the bigs. Soler's bat was considered probably elite before he hit the bigs, and has not hit at an elite level in the bigs. It has nothing to do with one being 22 and one being 23. It's the fact that one of them has produced at the MLB level over an extended period of time and one has not It's not even 300 PAs. Their overall MLB lines could converge if Schwarber goes cold for a month.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 14, 2015 18:38:38 GMT -5
I think JBJ and Soler are so far from their ceilings that you can argue for either one and make a valid argument.
I personally think Soler is more likely to reach his potential offensively and I'm not sure when JBJ will reach his peak defensively, but I assume it'll be before he's 30. Considering that Soler has more team control and we need a power bat more than a great CF glove (offense is also worth more in trade), I would give up JBJ for Soler.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Dec 14, 2015 23:37:50 GMT -5
So Schwarber is awesome because he has a projectable bat and was 22 last season, while Soler is of little value because while he has a projectable bat, but was 23??? This is even more odd of a position to take when you consider that Soler played 25 games in the MLB as a 22 year old and posted insane video game stats. I think just about everyone would say that Schwarber's bat is way more exciting than Soler's. It's not an all or nothing thing on the value, but Soler's k-rate along with a big drop in power tells me he's probably getting the Xander treatment and he's having trouble with it. Last year Schwarber's k% was 28.1%. Soler's was 30%. In his slightly less than a year of plate appearances, Soler's K% is actually lower. The difference last year for Soler was an unusually low ISO of only 1.30 down from a mark around 2.80 in his cup of coffee the season below. A big driver in that was likely a silly low HR/FB ratio. It is cool if you prefer Schwarber. You may be correct in valuing him more highly, but the difference is small.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Dec 15, 2015 6:39:34 GMT -5
Soler slugged only .399 in the offseason. But I think if you add in the postseason it goes up to .425.
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