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Red Sox acquire Craig Kimbrel for Margot, Guerra +
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 28, 2017 7:21:58 GMT -5
Craig Kimbrel’s last 61 batters faced: 38 strikeouts, 0 walks, 0 HBP, 4 hits. Right-handed batters are 0-for-37 against him in 2017. Kimbrel Haters... come out come out wherever you are. Yeah, well...Kimbrel stunk last time out..he struck out NOBODY! He's got NOTHING!!
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Post by rjp313jr on May 28, 2017 7:23:30 GMT -5
His K/9 rate plummeted to 16.69.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 28, 2017 7:30:01 GMT -5
In all seriousness I was in favor of the Kimbrel trade IF Kimbrel was the Kimbrel he had always been, if Margot and Asuaje are merely good, useful players (as opposed to superstars), and Logan Allen was a back-end starter as a lot of the reports had him as. I didn't worry about the SS whose name escapes me at the moment. I knew his K/BB ratio was ugly.
So as I look, Margot is going to be a really good player. No surprise there. The Kimbrel of 2016 wasn't worth the deal. At least we know now it wasn't a decline, but rather a quiet injury as we now know that the thumb was causing him to yank the ball and destroy his control. The Kimbrel we have now is a difference maker.
Asuaje hasn't done anything yet of note, and I don't know that he'll be much more than fringy or a 2nd division starter, but the guy that makes me nervous is Logan Allen. He's dominating his league, and now the upside looks a lot higher than back-end.
It kind of reminds me of all the talk about the aborted A-Rod/Manny deal prior to the 2004 season. Very few people mention the fact that a young kid named Jon Lester was supposed to be dealt to Texas as part of that deal. That would have changed the math of that deal considerably.
Logan Allen got plenty of comparisons to Lester based on his appearances, but if he's anything like Lester the pitcher, then the Red Sox, despite how wonderfully dominant Kimbrel has been, will have given up way too much.
If Allen is a #3/#4 type pitcher, I could live with it, but if he's #1/#2, then the Padres really pulled a fast one on a desperate to close the deal Dombrowski because that would have meant that he either had no idea what he had in Allen or didn't care.
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Post by m1keyboots on May 28, 2017 8:08:36 GMT -5
Wow, an immaculate inning, and a 4 strike put game.
That fastball man idc he's not chapman, butid take that fsstball man....
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Post by thursty on May 28, 2017 12:06:37 GMT -5
2017 Kimbrel isn't "the Kimbrel he has always been" - he has a *career* 40% K-rate and 10% BB rate and he hasn't had a bad thumb his whole life; this year it's 53 and 3 respectively. He's been even better than his remarkable 2012. No one saw nor could foresee this. Oh, and for the first time in his career he's being used as something other than a rocking-chair closer
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Post by bosox81 on May 28, 2017 13:12:01 GMT -5
There was never any "Kimbrel Hater". There only those who hated the trade and the principle behind it. Some of them may have projected that hate on the man himself, but I know I never did. And yes, I still hate it. It, not him.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 28, 2017 13:30:17 GMT -5
Speak for yourself all you want there was a lot of hate towards him though, saying there wasn't is revisionist history
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Post by jimed14 on May 28, 2017 13:36:05 GMT -5
Who still cares at this point? Does everyone have to win every argument that they'll continue it for years?
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Post by rjp313jr on May 28, 2017 15:03:03 GMT -5
No but I do feel the need at times to point out when over reactions get a little kick in the teeth sometimes. As sports fans, often times people get super emotional to each move which is part of it but as some of us age it gets a bit silly. So maybe point it out at times helps people not get all bent out of shape all the time.
It's like how a little 6 game winning streak in May suddenly turns the season outlook around for many.
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Post by burythehammer on May 28, 2017 15:36:32 GMT -5
Speak for yourself all you want there was a lot of hate towards him though, saying there wasn't is revisionist history There was hate last year when he had struggles. There was little to no hate towards his abilities when the trade was made, which is what you're implying. You are both revising history and moving the goalposts. Have fun though if it makes you feel better about this objectively awful trade.
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Post by soxjim on May 28, 2017 15:48:00 GMT -5
Speak for yourself all you want there was a lot of hate towards him though, saying there wasn't is revisionist history There was hate last year when he had struggles. There was little to no hate towards his abilities when the trade was made, which is what you're implying. You are both revising history and moving the goalposts. Have fun though if it makes you feel better about this objectively awful trade. Subjectively awful?
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Post by bosox81 on May 28, 2017 23:18:00 GMT -5
No but I do feel the need at times to point out when over reactions get a little kick in the teeth sometimes. As sports fans, often times people get super emotional to each move which is part of it but as some of us age it gets a bit silly. So maybe point it out at times helps people not get all bent out of shape all the time. It's like how a little 6 game winning streak in May suddenly turns the season outlook around for many. Oh, you mean like gloating over Kimbrel's 22 great innings? Or is that not an overreaction. I'm a little confused by the double standard here.
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Post by James Dunne on May 29, 2017 10:46:46 GMT -5
TL;DR version of this thread
Craig Kimbrel is good, so this is a good trade.
Yes, Craig Kimbrel is quite good, but I think they gave up too much to get him.
You need to trade talent to get something good!
Of course, but maybe not too much talent? Like, there's a limit right?
....
Kimbrel pitches okay in 2016, extremely well in 2017.
----
SEE I TOLD YOU KIMBREL WAS GOOD.
fin
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Post by wcsoxfan on May 29, 2017 10:52:32 GMT -5
TL;DR version of this thread Craig Kimbrel is good, so this is a good trade. Yes, Craig Kimbrel is quite good, but I think they gave up too much to get him. You need to trade talent to get something good! Of course, but maybe not too much talent? Like, there's a limit right? .... Kimbrel pitches okay in 2016, extremely well in 2017. ---- SEE I TOLD YOU KIMBREL WAS GOOD. fin And I was just about to read all 78 pages! Thanks for ruining the ending.
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Post by James Dunne on May 29, 2017 10:57:53 GMT -5
As a child Craig Kimbrel had a slider named Rosebud.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 29, 2017 12:39:31 GMT -5
Did I feel we gave up a little to much? Sure, but that's the cost of getting elite players. The trades for relivers since the Kimbrel trade make that trade look good. So there's really only two camps to be in right now. You're glad we have Kimbrel or you wish we didn't make the trade. I'm sure DD didn't just include a player like Allen if he could have made the deal without him. I hate all this I like the player but we gave up too much, it's the only way we could have got Kimbrel.
Come on, right now you could trade Kimbrel for more than we gave up, so I just don't see the issue with the trade anymore. We didn't trade away a Torres for a 1/3 of a season.
This thread is filled with posters that liked the trade or hated it. For a full season the haters had there fun, now it's time for the posters that liked the trade to have fun. I'm sorry but i've listen to too many posters tell me Kimbrel was just not elite anymore to let it go! Never in a million years could it have been that he played for 3 teams in 3 years, switched leagues and was injured. No way his BB rate spiked so he just wasn't good anymore. The negative Kimbrel posters that called him washed up, just need to take it. You know exactly who you are.
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Post by jmei on May 29, 2017 14:36:25 GMT -5
If having the best reliever in baseball and having your manager use him in smart and creative ways is "taking it," please can I have some more.
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Post by sarasoxer on May 29, 2017 16:41:08 GMT -5
TL;DR version of this thread Craig Kimbrel is good, so this is a good trade. Yes, Craig Kimbrel is quite good, but I think they gave up too much to get him. You need to trade talent to get something good! Of course, but maybe not too much talent? Like, there's a limit right? .... Kimbrel pitches okay in 2016, extremely well in 2017. ---- SEE I TOLD YOU KIMBREL WAS GOOD. fin And I was just about to read all 78 pages! Thanks for ruining the ending. I'm pretty sure there is a sequel in the works..
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Post by sarasoxer on May 29, 2017 16:48:01 GMT -5
Did I feel we gave up a little to much? Sure, but that's the cost of getting elite players. The trades for relivers since the Kimbrel trade make that trade look good. So there's really only two camps to be in right now. You're glad we have Kimbrel or you wish we didn't make the trade. I'm sure DD didn't just include a player like Allen if he could have made the deal without him. I hate all this I like the player but we gave up too much, it's the only way we could have got Kimbrel. Come on, right now you could trade Kimbrel for more than we gave up, so I just don't see the issue with the trade anymore. We didn't trade away a Torres for a 1/3 of a season. This thread is filled with posters that liked the trade or hated it. For a full season the haters had there fun, now it's time for the posters that liked the trade to have fun. I'm sorry but i've listen to too many posters tell me Kimbrel was just not elite anymore to let it go! Never in a million years could it have been that he played for 3 teams in 3 years, switched leagues and was injured. No way his BB rate spiked so he just wasn't good anymore. The negative Kimbrel posters that called him washed up, just need to take it. You know exactly who you are. This sounds like a version of High Noon.... Kimbrel was hurt or less than 100% last year. I don't think many people knew that...at least I didn't. I had no comment on the trade but on last year's performance one would have to agree with the trade complainers. With Kimbrel otherworldly now it's easy to go the other way.
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Post by thursty on May 29, 2017 17:53:24 GMT -5
Do you really not understand how the baseball trade market works? Do you think it's like buying a gallon of milk at the grocery store, where the price is just listed and if you have the money you buy it? It's not a transparent market.
Just for one instance, it's been reported that for the throw-in in the Peavy trade Hahn had demanded that the Red Sox include a certain 2nd baseman who had just 2 months of a breakout at low-A. Imagine where this team would be if Dombrowski were the GM at that time. And of course you would have argued that Mookie Betts was garbage
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Post by James Dunne on May 29, 2017 18:03:16 GMT -5
And I was just about to read all 78 pages! Thanks for ruining the ending. I'm pretty sure there is a sequel in the works.. Of course there is. This thread has 114,528 views! This thread is the Transformers franchise of SoxProspects dot com.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 29, 2017 21:54:52 GMT -5
I just deleted some posts that violated the ground rules. We're not going to be tolerating that going forward.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 30, 2017 6:04:53 GMT -5
No but I do feel the need at times to point out when over reactions get a little kick in the teeth sometimes. As sports fans, often times people get super emotional to each move which is part of it but as some of us age it gets a bit silly. So maybe point it out at times helps people not get all bent out of shape all the time. It's like how a little 6 game winning streak in May suddenly turns the season outlook around for many. Oh, you mean like gloating over Kimbrel's 22 great innings? Or is that not an overreaction. I'm a little confused by the double standard here. Not gloating just enjoying the ride. I understood the trade and defended it for what it was against those who flipped their lids. It was a lot to trade but they did for an elite arm and now he is healthy and performing like it. People who hated it supposedly hated it regardless of if he was elite or not because dominant relievers are "easily replaceable" to many here.
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Post by jimed14 on May 30, 2017 7:43:25 GMT -5
Oh, you mean like gloating over Kimbrel's 22 great innings? Or is that not an overreaction. I'm a little confused by the double standard here. Not gloating just enjoying the ride. I understood the trade and defended it for what it was against those who flipped their lids. It was a lot to trade but they did for an elite arm and now he is healthy and performing like it. People who hated it supposedly hated it regardless of if he was elite or not because dominant relievers are "easily replaceable" to many here. Elite relievers turn into average all the time.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 30, 2017 13:53:00 GMT -5
That's the difference from truly elite relievers and guys that just have a couple elite seasons. That's why the truly elite guys cost so much in contracts and to trade for. There aren't many relievers that stay elite over a long period of time. It's why the Cubs and Indians paid such a high price for Chapman and Miller. They didn't worry they would turn into Pumkins after changing teams.
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