mobaz
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Posts: 2,720
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Post by mobaz on Dec 8, 2016 13:27:33 GMT -5
Kinda thinking the Cubs trading a haul for Chapman, letting him go as a FA* and then trading more for Wade Davis is their equivalent of trading a stud for Pomeranz at the deadline and then a haul for Sale at winter meetings. The ring will keep them from feeling regret, but it makes you wonder if they could have had Davis at the deadline for Soler + one of the Chapman prospects and had the same outcome at a lower cost and without having to glorify a scumbag.
*(biiiiiig caveat, after winning the club's first WS in 105 years)
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Post by kman22 on Dec 8, 2016 14:37:52 GMT -5
Kinda thinking the Cubs trading a haul for Chapman, letting him go as a FA* and then trading more for Wade Davis is their equivalent of trading a stud for Pomeranz at the deadline and then a haul for Sale at winter meetings. The ring will keep them from feeling regret, but it makes you wonder if they could have had Davis at the deadline for Soler + one of the Chapman prospects and had the same outcome at a lower cost and without having to glorify a scumbag. *(biiiiiig caveat, after winning the club's first WS in 105 years) The Red Sox still have both for multiple years. I'd say they are different.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,405
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Post by ianrs on Dec 8, 2016 17:36:39 GMT -5
Cubs close to signing Koji. Sigh.
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Post by ramireja on Dec 8, 2016 17:53:34 GMT -5
I really don't understand why we wouldn't bring Koji back at 4.5 Mill. Do you need to plan for him to spend some time on the DL next year? Probably, but he was still damn effective when healthy last year and provides a nice change of pace to the high octane trio of Kimbrel, Kelly, and Barnes (and Thornburg to a degree too).
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Post by telson13 on Dec 8, 2016 22:22:05 GMT -5
This was the JBJ trade I thought the Sox should make (well, and up Lopez to Robles by adding Buchholz). Nice move by Chicago. The Red Sox aren't rebuilding. Why would they trade JBJ for prospects? I was arguing that they could trade JBJ/Buchholz to the Nats for Giolito/Robles, sign Fowler, get Moncada time in RF (since Devers looks ticketed for 3b), and lose essentially no production while getting value for JBJ while his stock is high, in lieu of trading him for Sale. It would've been salary-neutral and added a couple of high-quality prospects. Not a rebuild move, rather a re-allocation move. And talent without adding much salary. Just a contrarian position.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Dec 8, 2016 23:11:57 GMT -5
Kinda thinking the Cubs trading a haul for Chapman, letting him go as a FA* and then trading more for Wade Davis is their equivalent of trading a stud for Pomeranz at the deadline and then a haul for Sale at winter meetings. The ring will keep them from feeling regret, but it makes you wonder if they could have had Davis at the deadline for Soler + one of the Chapman prospects and had the same outcome at a lower cost and without having to glorify a scumbag. *(biiiiiig caveat, after winning the club's first WS in 105 years) The Red Sox still have both for multiple years. I'd say they are different. That's the great thing about second guessing in hindsite though. You do what you can when you can because you cannot predict the future and have no way of knowing what can or will happen down the round
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 9, 2016 8:12:33 GMT -5
The Red Sox still have both for multiple years. I'd say they are different. That's the great thing about second guessing in hindsite though. You do what you can when you can because you cannot predict the future and have no way of knowing what can or will happen down the round The Red Sox knew Pomeranz's and Sale's contract lengths without the benefit of hindsight.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 9, 2016 9:21:09 GMT -5
Fowler has signed with the Cards. Rumor is five years a big number per year. That, to me, seems like a contract that will be regretted in a couple of years. Fowler was better in CF last year, but at 30 I doubt he is still there in three years.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2016 1:56:03 GMT -5
Matt GelbVerified account @mattgelb Phillies signed OF Daniel Nava to a minor-league deal, according to a source. He could win a bench job in the spring. He turns 34 in Feb.
Nava's first AB was against the Phils.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2016 4:07:42 GMT -5
Matt GelbVerified account @mattgelb Phillies signed OF Daniel Nava to a minor-league deal, according to a source. He could win a bench job in the spring. He turns 34 in Feb. Nava's first AB was against the Phils. He did nothing on that first at bat I believe. ;-)
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2016 4:11:04 GMT -5
Matt GelbVerified account @mattgelb Phillies signed OF Daniel Nava to a minor-league deal, according to a source. He could win a bench job in the spring. He turns 34 in Feb. Nava's first AB was against the Phils. He did nothing on that first at bat I believe. ;-) He proved how dumb it is to swing at the first pitch.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2016 4:18:13 GMT -5
He did nothing on that first at bat I believe. ;-) He proved how dumb it is to swing at the first pitch. Nomar Garciaparra approves this message.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2016 9:55:23 GMT -5
Fort Myers MiracleVerified account @miraclebaseball We are heartbroken over the passing of former Miracle and 2016 FSL All-Star Yorman Landa. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family. Mike Berardino @mikeberardino 38m38 minutes ago Horrible news out of Venezuela this morning, where #mntwins RHP Yorman Landa has died in a car accident. He was 22. ADD: Mike Berardino @mikeberardino 3h3 hours ago I'm told Yorman Landa was in the passenger seat of the car his father was driving on a rainy night in Venezuela.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2016 18:29:33 GMT -5
I saw that Colorado signed Desmond, but can't believe they'd forfeit the #11 overall pick to do it. WTF?
I also didn't realize that Chapman got an opt-out after 3 years along with a full no-trade for those 3 years, and can keep his $11M signing bonus if he opts out. So if he opts out, he'd get $56M for 3 years. Of course he'll opt out.
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Post by braziliansox on Dec 10, 2016 18:34:49 GMT -5
I saw that Colorado signed Desmond, but can't believe they'd forfeit the #11 overall pick to do it. WTF? The speculation is that they'll sign another QO FA like Encarnacion or Trumbo and then trade Blackmon.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Dec 11, 2016 11:36:49 GMT -5
That's the great thing about second guessing in hindsite though. You do what you can when you can because you cannot predict the future and have no way of knowing what can or will happen down the round The Red Sox knew Pomeranz's and Sale's contract lengths without the benefit of hindsight. I must of responded to the wrong post and I can't figure out which one it was, mea culpa.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 12, 2016 13:44:50 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 3m3 minutes ago Source confirms: Jansen and #Dodgers in agreement on five-year, $80M contract. First reported: @jimbowden_ESPN.
Big money, but LAD needed him badly. Dude's cutter is nasty.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 12, 2016 14:34:57 GMT -5
To think that just wondering years ago Andrew Miller only got 4/36. The market for relievers is truly out of control.
And that's not a knock on Jansen or Chapman. They're as elite as you can get. It's just crazy how inflated their prices are now.
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Post by p23w on Dec 12, 2016 14:44:21 GMT -5
To think that just wondering years ago Andrew Miller only got 4/36. The market for relievers is truly out of control. And that's not a knock on Jansen or Chapman. They're as elite as you can get. It's just crazy how inflated their prices are now. If you look at the teams with post season success (over, say the past 10 years), the only surprise to me is why this trend wasn't picked up earlier by baseball "brain trusts" and sabermatricians. Miller was (still is) an absolute steal. FWIW I would take Jansen over Chapman, all things considered.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 12, 2016 15:59:25 GMT -5
To think that just wondering years ago Andrew Miller only got 4/36. The market for relievers is truly out of control. And that's not a knock on Jansen or Chapman. They're as elite as you can get. It's just crazy how inflated their prices are now. If you look at the teams with post season success (over, say the past 10 years), the only surprise to me is why this trend wasn't picked up earlier by baseball "brain trusts" and sabermatricians. Miller was (still is) an absolute steal. FWIW I would take Jansen over Chapman, all things considered. I would think it didn't pick up steam until the last couple of years because relievers can be so volatile. Some may be consistently decent/good for a long time, but it's hard to find guys like Chapman and Jansen who have consistently been two of the top performers in the league.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,438
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Post by nomar on Dec 12, 2016 16:10:13 GMT -5
4/64 for Turner is beyond a steal.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 12, 2016 16:13:03 GMT -5
To think that just wondering years ago Andrew Miller only got 4/36. The market for relievers is truly out of control. And that's not a knock on Jansen or Chapman. They're as elite as you can get. It's just crazy how inflated their prices are now. If you look at the teams with post season success (over, say the past 10 years), the only surprise to me is why this trend wasn't picked up earlier by baseball "brain trusts" and sabermatricians. Miller was (still is) an absolute steal. FWIW I would take Jansen over Chapman, all things considered. Absolutely! The Yankees were at the forefront. I recall arguing to resign Miller after we traded him for Erod. No draft pick loss just bucks for a guy who was coming into his own with great stuff. Chapman situation before Chapman. Not doing so reenforced my belief that talent evaluation and recognizing emerging trends timely is often times woeful.
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Post by p23w on Dec 13, 2016 8:54:15 GMT -5
If you look at the teams with post season success (over, say the past 10 years), the only surprise to me is why this trend wasn't picked up earlier by baseball "brain trusts" and sabermatricians. Miller was (still is) an absolute steal. FWIW I would take Jansen over Chapman, all things considered. Absolutely! The Yankees were at the forefront. I recall arguing to resign Miller after we traded him for Erod. No draft pick loss just bucks for a guy who was coming into his own with great stuff. Chapman situation before Chapman. Not doing so reenforced my belief that talent evaluation and recognizing emerging trends timely is often times woeful. What compounds this for me is the track record of Dan Dombrowski and bullpen building. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you build with false or erroneous premises. Almost always the guy in the crosshairs is the manager, not the GM. The fan wants to believe the best, but trying to rationalize the machinations of the "brain trust" with the mis/disinformation provided about the business side of the team puts the rationalization process in the ether. For me listening to the likes of Miller talk about his role, and watching Jansen's insane movement on 95 plus pitches is what I want. The physical fact that both seem to have stress free mechanics seals the deal.... their track records are less relevant given the attitude, stuff, and mechanics. The duration and amount of their contracts is even less relevant. The Yankees were blessed with Mariano Rivera, and may be trying to relive that comfort zone with Chapman. The prevailing narrative is that a team needs a bullpen loaded with power arms. The narrative fails to take into account the availability of such arms and their ultimate priority, that of getting outs. Certain situations may call for ground balls, certain matchups may rely on L/R splits. Then there is the matter of frequency of usage. Power arms like Chapman don't seem to stand up well to high frequency or multiple innings. Rubber arms like Ziegler seem to perform more consistently under these circumstances. Point being, rather than trying to build a bullpen based soley on a theory (or popular narrative) may not be the right way to go about it, unless all the pieces are in place to begin with. Given Dombrowski's track record and his (to me) desparate attempt to build a bullpen based on the prevailing narrative, he is failing to make the best use of his available assets. K's are nice. Swing and misses are nice (although unless they come with two strikes i fail to see their value). What often accompany's these stats are walks, which for a relief pitcher is a pet peeve of mine. Give me one or two rubber armed guys, who throw strikes and I'll be happy. Throw in some guys with stellar inherited runners left on base numbers and I am most pleased.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 13, 2016 9:26:41 GMT -5
This should have a major impact on the division, Orioles have re-signed Lorgan Ondrusek.
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Post by bosox81 on Dec 13, 2016 12:09:21 GMT -5
To think that just wondering years ago Andrew Miller only got 4/36. The market for relievers is truly out of control. And that's not a knock on Jansen or Chapman. They're as elite as you can get. It's just crazy how inflated their prices are now. If you look at the teams with post season success (over, say the past 10 years), the only surprise to me is why this trend wasn't picked up earlier by baseball "brain trusts" and sabermatricians. Miller was (still is) an absolute steal. FWIW I would take Jansen over Chapman, all things considered. The trend will die once one of these high priced relievers reminds the world how volatile they are again. My money is on Chapman doing that within the next couple of years.
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