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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2016 10:59:55 GMT -5
Ken Laird @kenlairdweei 22m22 minutes ago Farrell says Carson Smith will stay south, re-evaluated tomorrow (10 day mark from his injury). Close to getting "a ball back in his hand"
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 30, 2016 14:10:46 GMT -5
I guess the one thing I disagree with on the Carson Smith injury is the word fact. I'm not so sure it's quite at fact status that sliders lead to a higher likelihood of TJS. Maybe for arguments sake there's not a better word to use. Facts are indisputable. Facts aren't theories that people have backed up with some data. I'm not saying I don't believe that throwing sliders may lead to increased injury risk for certain pitchers. But I don't believe that to be a fact at this point. I think at this point with all the information and studies done fact is the right word. It's a fact that pitchers that throw a ton of sliders are at increased risk of elbow problems compared to pitchers that don't. If you don't think it's a fact, can you prove it to not be true? If you can't it's a fact.
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Post by thursty on Mar 30, 2016 14:12:57 GMT -5
So if you can't disprove X, X is true.
I can't prove there are no unicorns ==> unicorns exist.
umass grad indeed
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Mar 30, 2016 15:30:19 GMT -5
So if you can't disprove X, X is true. I can't prove there are no unicorns ==> unicorns exist. umass grad indeedEasy there, hitting close to home! :-) [The rest of this isn't aimed at you, thursty, or anyone really. It's just a general rant.] Unless we're doing geometry, it's probably a waste of time trying to figure out what things are proved and which aren't. It's pretty much the same arguing about what's a "fact" and what's a "theory". In real life we're stuck with evaluating evidence and it's rare that all the evidence is on one side of an issue. If somebody isn't bringing evidence to the discussion, just don't listen. $0.02 Back to semi-lurker status now.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 30, 2016 18:39:51 GMT -5
So if you can't disprove X, X is true. I can't prove there are no unicorns ==> unicorns exist. umass grad indeed fact- A true piece of information. The whole point of this thread is that all the studies show the same thing, pitchers that throw a lot of sliders have increased chances of having elbow injuries. It's a fact that there is a correlation between sliders and elbow injuries. So yea if you don't agree and can't prove that wrong, then accept that it's a fact. A theory which some people on this board think the correlation between sliders and elbow injuries is, can be proven wrong/not true. Your whole unicorn thing is just crazy and your taking what I said out of context. Did I miss a bunch of studies that showed Unicorns exist?
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Post by iakovos11 on Mar 30, 2016 19:27:41 GMT -5
smh
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 31, 2016 8:20:10 GMT -5
Like I said before, I do believe throwing more sliders likely leads to increased elbow injuries but let's not get carried away with these studies. They are the best we got to work with but they are hardly scientific in nature or comprehensive enough. It's probably a wasted conversation but there's a reason people can't site articles on the opposing view on these things a lot of times because it's not as interesting to write about so people don't. Plus, no one looks into stuff that's not having an effect in a baseball sense. Most of the stuff posted is from baseballs writers looking at statistics and drawing a correlation which is useful, but it hardly tells enough. It's an issue that needs to be studied more in depth if better answers are written about it. Is it the slider itself? Is it the grip and way it's thrown? Arm angle? Are some body make ups (i.e. Ligament flexibility) much better equipped to throw a slider and not get hurt whereas another type really can't handle it?
So even if a slider gives increased risk to some types of pitchers it may not for others.
Anyways hopefully he's back and it's going to be fine for him.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 31, 2016 8:46:23 GMT -5
Define the word "is"
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Post by grandsalami on May 18, 2016 10:32:48 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on May 18, 2016 11:21:16 GMT -5
Brian MacPherson @brianmacp 7m7 minutes ago Carson Smith is recovering more slowly from appearances than the Red Sox were hoping. He wasn't available Tuesday. DL could be an option.
Michael Silverman @mikesilvermanbb 13m13 minutes ago Reliever Carson Smith dealing w lingering soreness in forearm. A DL stint is not out of question but still too soon to say..
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Post by grandsalami on May 18, 2016 12:16:11 GMT -5
Pete Abraham @peteabe 60s60 seconds ago Smith politely declined an interview request after what was a lengthy meeting with the trainer. Pretty clear something is up.
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Post by Coreno on May 18, 2016 12:35:26 GMT -5
Kind of explains the 8-man bullpen, since one of them is pretty much useless most days.
Cant say I'm surprised, considering how little he's been used, but this doesn't sound good.
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Post by borisman on May 18, 2016 13:05:43 GMT -5
Shut him down. I was surprised how quickly he came back. I didn't really expect him to be back until June. The sad part is, he still has that violent delivery and this may be the way the rest of his career goes. It's too bad because he is pretty much lights out when he's on the mound. With the uncertainty of E-Rod and Clay's ineffectiveness, starting pitching may now not be the only item on the shopping list, especially if the team stays in the running for a playoff spot.
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Post by jimed14 on May 18, 2016 13:47:36 GMT -5
Send him to Dr. Andrews already. We know what's coming.
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Post by soxfan06 on May 18, 2016 21:30:40 GMT -5
Christ, just give him the damn Tommy John Surgery now so we can actually use him some next year.
Ugh....
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Post by sibbysisti on May 19, 2016 7:37:59 GMT -5
Christ, just give him the damn Tommy John Surgery now so we can actually use him some next year. Ugh.... And, if he doesn't need TJ, why wait one year?
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Post by sox fan in nc on May 19, 2016 9:16:33 GMT -5
Send him to Dr. Andrews already. We know what's coming. I was wondering that too. I'm sure they have ruled that out by letting him pitch. Either the UCL is torn or not. If there was any possibility it is torn, he would be in Dr. Andrew's waiting room. I'm more concerned with E-Rod's knee.
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Post by Guidas on May 19, 2016 9:42:43 GMT -5
Send him to Dr. Andrews already. We know what's coming. I was wondering that too. I'm sure they have ruled that out by letting him pitch. Either the UCL is torn or not. If there was any possibility it is torn, he would be in Dr. Andrew's waiting room. I'm more concerned with E-Rod's knee. I'm not so sure. Every orthopedic surgery I've ever had (5) the prognosis post-op has been, "It was much worse in there than the MRI and/or X-rays showed." Not sure if anyone here has had similar experiences. But as much as I've had top shelf surgeons who all worked on pro athletes as well, pro athletes get incredible care because they are an investment, and because teams are usually at the cutting edge when it comes to rehab. But the imagine equipment and exams can only tell physicians so much. This is why you sometimes read that player X didn't need surgery and is rehabbing it with trainers/physical therapists only to read a couple months later that player X is getting surgery on the same area (and then we all say, "Why didn't he/the team do that in the first place!?"). Last choice should always be to cut, and often the specialists do genuinely believe surgery isn't needed, but you never really know unless the player gets through the rehab pain-free with performance bouncing back to where it was. It could just be he's got inflammation from rapid ramp-up, or he's breaking down some scar tissue, or it could be worse than what the imaging showed.
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Post by jmei on May 19, 2016 10:28:20 GMT -5
There actually is quite a bit of gray area with TJ surgery. There is a whole spectrum of partial tears (or the more euphemistic term "fraying") that some teams decide to treat through rehab (mostly rest to let inflammation die down and strengthening of the surrounding muscles) and trying to let the pitcher pitch through it. Think Tanaka two years ago or our own Brandon Workman (who tried to rehab it but ultimately underwent TJ surgery). It's still a ticking time bomb, though-- ligaments don't grow back on their own, and a pitcher pitching through a partial tear is at high risk of having the UCL tear entirely sooner or later.
I'm not sure that's the case here, though. I don't think they'd have let him come back so soon if there was a partial ligament tear.
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Post by vermontsox1 on May 24, 2016 9:19:52 GMT -5
Tim Britton @timbritton Red Sox announce Carson Smith will undergo Tommy John surgery.
Welp.
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atzar
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Posts: 1,817
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Post by atzar on May 24, 2016 9:27:26 GMT -5
Tim Britton @timbritton Red Sox announce Carson Smith will undergo Tommy John surgery. Welp. See you next year, Carson.
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Post by mandelbro on May 24, 2016 9:30:58 GMT -5
I guess something had to go wrong this season sooner or later. Devastating.
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Post by jrffam05 on May 24, 2016 9:32:07 GMT -5
poop.
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Post by humanbeingbean on May 24, 2016 9:34:03 GMT -5
The only positive to take away from this is that the bullpen and team have been strong without him, and if he has had any long-standing arm/elbow issues, they'll be corrected. Obviously not saying he'll be his dominating self right away next season, but having the surgery now is probably better than continually delaying it and using up his service time while he's unable to pitch. Best wishes to Carson.
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Post by mattpicard on May 24, 2016 9:36:08 GMT -5
Depressing, but we knew there was a fair chance of this happening. I worry about what this means for Tazawa and Koji, who are likely to be overworked as the season goes on. Nothing new there, especially for Taz, but the Smith acquisition was supposed to end it.
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