SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Travis Shaw named Starting 3B
|
Post by brianthetaoist on Apr 17, 2016 7:18:06 GMT -5
Now, for a guy who was moved to first base for awhile, Shaw’s athleticism has surprised the coaches and the front office. “I know I am very impressive with his defense,” says Dave Dombrowski. “Travis gets rid of the ball very quickly,” says Brian Butterfield, “and he does so with arm strength and exceptional accuracy. He impressed all of us when he came up last year, but he’s better than we imagined. And his throwing is special.”
www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-troy-tulowitzki-travis-shaw-and-attention-to-the-defensive-side/I love Peter Gammons so much, and this line is why: "There is no chance involved. In Trammell, Ripken, Jeter, Tulowitzki or, as we may be watching, Travis Shaw." Still, though, Shaw seems at least average at third, maybe even better. What would we all have thought of his prospect status if he was a LHH third baseman putting up a 305/406/548 line in AA?
|
|
|
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Apr 18, 2016 13:06:19 GMT -5
Travis Shaw looks great, but Gammons is nuts lol
|
|
gerry
Veteran
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,651
|
Post by gerry on Apr 18, 2016 15:30:29 GMT -5
Travis Shaw looks great, but Gammons is nuts lol All he said was that, like Tulo and a few above average fielders, one of Shaw's strongest points is a unique ability to throw hard from different angles, with accuracy; that Shaw takes great pride in that ability and practices hard to do so; and that he has been learning to do so since kindergarten while working with his dad who had the same skill. That DDo and coaches are impressed with this skill enhances the narrative. So does the eyeball test of watching him make hard, accurate throws on balls up the line, in the hole, across shortstop, or on swinging bunts. iMO, this is merely heads up connecting the dots concerning this rookie. We should all be so nuts.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Apr 18, 2016 16:22:08 GMT -5
I'm also amazed to see him barehand a ball 3 times without flubbing it. It seems that most players who try it fail just about every time, but it's been 5 years since we've seen decent 3B defense in Boston so maybe I'm wrong.
|
|
|
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Apr 18, 2016 19:14:14 GMT -5
Travis Shaw looks great, but Gammons is nuts lol All he said was that, like Tulo and a few above average fielders, one of Shaw's strongest points is a unique ability to throw hard from different angles, with accuracy; that Shaw takes great pride in that ability and practices hard to do so; and that he has been learning to do so since kindergarten while working with his dad who had the same skill. That DDo and coaches are impressed with this skill enhances the narrative. So does the eyeball test of watching him make hard, accurate throws on balls up the line, in the hole, across shortstop, or on swinging bunts. iMO, this is merely heads up connecting the dots concerning this rookie. We should all be so nuts. no we shouldn't. it's asinine hyperbole.
|
|
|
Post by mandelbro on Apr 18, 2016 21:10:01 GMT -5
I was extremely suspicious of Shaw bringing his play at the end of last season into 2016. I am thrilled to be wrong so far. He's a tough out every time and he is making the plays at 3B. He's using the whole field - something which is hurting JBJ right now as he pummels balls into the shift.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 18, 2016 22:30:24 GMT -5
All he said was that, like Tulo and a few above average fielders, one of Shaw's strongest points is a unique ability to throw hard from different angles, with accuracy; that Shaw takes great pride in that ability and practices hard to do so; and that he has been learning to do so since kindergarten while working with his dad who had the same skill. That DDo and coaches are impressed with this skill enhances the narrative. So does the eyeball test of watching him make hard, accurate throws on balls up the line, in the hole, across shortstop, or on swinging bunts. iMO, this is merely heads up connecting the dots concerning this rookie. We should all be so nuts. no we shouldn't. it's asinine hyperbole. To those that didn't read or comprehend the entire article yes, it is.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 18, 2016 23:02:15 GMT -5
I'm also amazed to see him barehand a ball 3 times without flubbing it. It seems that most players who try it fail just about every time, but it's been 5 years since we've seen decent 3B defense in Boston so maybe I'm wrong. I would think it's the first time since Beltre was here. He looks great at 3B.
|
|
gerry
Veteran
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,651
|
Post by gerry on Apr 19, 2016 2:51:34 GMT -5
no we shouldn't. it's asinine hyperbole. To those that didn't read or comprehend the entire article yes, it is. Down with hyperbole. Would it also be hyperbole for several on this board, for several years, having trivialized, even denigrated, Shaw as a player; and his future as a major leaguer? Gammo posits that he has shown the skills which would help him become a very good player. Some posters here have relentlessly posited that he hasn't the skills to play in the Majors. Hmmmm. I am more inclined to accept that Shaw is becoming a very good player, and believe more in Shaw's potential to be extraordinary than to be a failure.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Apr 19, 2016 3:18:51 GMT -5
no we shouldn't. it's asinine hyperbole. To those that didn't read or comprehend the entire article yes, it is. Wait, why would I read an entire Gammo article?
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 19, 2016 5:25:45 GMT -5
To those that didn't read or comprehend the entire article yes, it is. Wait, why would I read an entire Gammo article? I wonder why only one of you is in the Hall of Fame.
|
|
|
Post by mandelbro on Apr 25, 2016 10:22:07 GMT -5
Red Sox team fWAR rankings at each position so far: SS 2 DH 2 (out of 16) 2B 5 3B 7 LF 13 RF 15 C 16 CF 17 1B 19 On the position player side, the team's biggest weaknesses last year were 3B (30th) and LF (25th). The (too) early returns suggest we've managed to turn both around. Shaw has been awesome.
|
|
|
Post by sibbysisti on Apr 25, 2016 15:11:25 GMT -5
Good move by Farrell and the coaching staff recognizing his ability and sticking with him at third instead of going with Holt or Rutledge. I noticed that, too, about his throwing accuracy. Told myself, good thing he can make the throws from third and not making Hanley have to dig out balls in the dirt.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Apr 27, 2016 7:44:40 GMT -5
Who could have ever guessed that Shaw would be playing as well as he is based on his minor league numbers? What a revelation for the Sox!! Can anyone recall another Boston player being such a surprise based on minors vs majors? Not only at the plate but his defense has been pretty good also.
|
|
|
Post by okin15 on Apr 27, 2016 8:12:51 GMT -5
Who could have ever guessed that Shaw would be playing as well as he is based on his minor league numbers? What a revelation for the Sox!! Can anyone recall another Boston player being such a surprise based on minors vs majors? Not only at the plate but his defense has been pretty good also. Three other outfielders come to mind, but they all did it for other MLB teams: Murphy, his teammate in Texas who's name escapes me, and Hazelbaker this year. I honestly am not sure I believe what is happening. How does this happen? I'd believe it more if there were someone telling me why.
|
|
|
Post by jchang on Apr 27, 2016 8:27:18 GMT -5
do we have access to the original scouting report on Shaw? I recall that he was always rated at high baseball IQ, worked hard, fringe average tools, and below average bat speed which would be exposed in the upper minors. He did have difficulties in his first two tours in AA, but has apparently worked out what he needed to. Normally we expect a sophomore slump and should wait until a players 3rd season to see how he reacts. I would have thought that other teams would have examined Shaw's film from last years, looking for weakness' to attack. I think the question is how do we find more prospects beyond the first round who don't need huge signing bonuses.
|
|
art
Veteran
Posts: 324
|
Post by art on Apr 27, 2016 8:49:11 GMT -5
Who could have ever guessed that Shaw would be playing as well as he is based on his minor league numbers? What a revelation for the Sox!! Can anyone recall another Boston player being such a surprise based on minors vs majors? Not only at the plate but his defense has been pretty good also. John Valentin hit way better in the majors than he did in the minors.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Apr 27, 2016 9:34:43 GMT -5
So did Nomar. And Mo Vaughn (although unlike Nomar, he was drafted for his hitting).
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Apr 27, 2016 10:08:37 GMT -5
So did Carlton Fisk and, to a lesser degree, Fred Lynn
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 27, 2016 10:50:18 GMT -5
...and Jason Varitek. BP's take on this is captured nicely in their comment in the annual about Shaw: ...which I'd say he is. It's not all that common but it does happen. He went from having little value to being a player Dombrowski probably fielded calls about before the season started. That value has only increased after the first 20 games. He's the counter-argument, as others have said, to selling low on prospects.
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Apr 27, 2016 11:01:50 GMT -5
Who could have ever guessed that Shaw would be playing as well as he is based on his minor league numbers? What a revelation for the Sox!! Can anyone recall another Boston player being such a surprise based on minors vs majors? Not only at the plate but his defense has been pretty good also. Three other outfielders come to mind, but they all did it for other MLB teams: Murphy, his teammate in Texas who's name escapes me, and Hazelbaker this year. I honestly am not sure I believe what is happening. How does this happen? I'd believe it more if there were someone telling me why. I get the Braves feed here in NC...They mentioned Shaw was just average-ish in the minors, then he implemented his leg kick & everything took off. Timing, tempo, power improved.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,881
|
Post by ericmvan on Apr 27, 2016 11:24:33 GMT -5
He's already indicating that when he's going right, he's better than when he was going right in AAA. And probably way better.
This may well be largely because he's using scouting data on opposing pitchers that he lacked in the minors. I think it's a mistake to underestimate just how useful that can be for a really smart guy (which I was probably doing this winter). Stuff like "When he gets ahead 1-2 with a breaking ball, 90% of the time they triy to come inside with the 2-seamer and run it back over the inside corner," only a given pitcher might have half a dozen or a dozen tendencies like that. A lot of guys are just up there seeing the ball and trying to hit it. If you're willing to commit all of the tendency data on a pitcher to memory, though, and you can train your brain to process that between pitches and then get it out of the way once you've figured out what to look for, that can give you a huge edge.
Studying video is obviously a huge part of this. And, BTW, all of this is of course probably a big factor in Papi's longevity.
(Hmm .. I just thought of a way to try to objectively measure this: hitters who use this data should fare less well when pitchers are throwing to their non-favorite catcher. So, look at hitter performance (both at the team and player level) as a function of how much video they would have on the pitcher, how many times hitters had actually faced the pitcher, and how much data they would have on that particular pitcher / catcher combination.)
Now, he will get his mechanics out of whack at some point and go into a swoon. Whether that lasts two weeks or two months will be an important indicator of how good he will be in the long run. Again, his one MLB slump was shorter than his AAA slumps, and again, he would have better tools to analyze what he was doing wrong in MLB than in AAA.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Apr 27, 2016 11:48:01 GMT -5
He's already indicating that when he's going right, he's better than when he was going right in AAA. And probably way better. This may well be largely because he's using scouting data on opposing pitchers that he lacked in the minors. I think it's a mistake to underestimate just how useful that can be for a really smart guy (which I was probably doing this winter). Stuff like "When he gets ahead 1-2 with a breaking ball, 90% of the time they triy to come inside with the 2-seamer and run it back over the inside corner," only a given pitcher might have half a dozen or a dozen tendencies like that. A lot of guys are just up there seeing the ball and trying to hit it. If you're willing to commit all of the tendency data on a pitcher to memory, though, and you can train your brain to process that between pitches and then get it out of the way once you've figured out what to look for, that can give you a huge edge. Studying video is obviously a huge part of this. And, BTW, all of this is of course probably a big factor in Papi's longevity. (Hmm .. I just thought of a way to try to objectively measure this: hitters who use this data should fare less well when pitchers are throwing to their non-favorite catcher. So, look at hitter performance (both at the team and player level) as a function of how much video they would have on the pitcher, how many times hitters had actually faced the pitcher, and how much data they would have on that particular pitcher / catcher combination.) Now, he will get his mechanics out of whack at some point and go into a swoon. Whether that lasts two weeks or two months will be an important indicator of how good he will be in the long run. Again, his one MLB slump was shorter than his AAA slumps, and again, he would have better tools to analyze what he was doing wrong in MLB than in AAA. I think you're dead on here. It's become pretty apparent that Shaw is cerebral about his hitting. I saw reports of some conversations between him and Papi about "seizing his chance," in the same way Ortiz did, too. I imagine that, smelling success, he may have simply found another gear in terms of effort/work. I will say, he had very clear success at the start of his second AA season, and after going to AAA and some mediocre hitting, he put up some incredible AFL stats, including some astounding exit velocities. So he's probably just found an environment now where he can maximize and even augment his physical skills, while at the same time cover up or even ablate some weaknesses through the use of a *lot* of data. I'm becoming convinced that the Shaw we're seeing is the real deal, and that he may even get better.
|
|
|
Post by tonyc on Apr 27, 2016 11:57:45 GMT -5
Just read this thread- Sarasoxer you beat me to the punch was about to mention Fisk, but also Butch Hobson and Rick Burleson- all three extraordinary hard workers. Nomar obviously totally changed his body, and Mo Vaughn (in the fringe benefit to the otherwise horrible Tudor for Easler trade) was taught by Easler to swing upward to generate loft.
|
|
|
Post by awall on Apr 27, 2016 13:41:34 GMT -5
Is there a baseball pedigree connection? Mookie wasn't an elite prospect either. Both guys have a strong family connection to former players.
|
|
|