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John Farrell: To fire or not to fire...
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Post by telson13 on Oct 9, 2016 19:29:27 GMT -5
Why exactly does someone "need to be blamed" if the Sox lose? The playoffs are a crapshoot, and they got cold at the wrong time...it happens, and it was no fault of Farrell's. Beyond that, there are still games to play and they've been in this sort of hole (and worse) multiple times in the past 15 years and come out ahead. They haven't looked good, but after an 11-0 run to get them in, they got cold. That's baseball. Cleveland is a poor road team, and the Sox are a good road team. The Sox have a better offense and arguably better 3-4 starters. So if it goes 5, I like their chances alright. It's not like Farrell really mismanaged either game...their 1-2 starters stunk, the offense sputtered, and they lost. That's the players, not the manager. So right back at 'em tomorrow and see how it shakes out.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 9, 2016 19:55:00 GMT -5
"Because this is Boston. And in Boston we're consistent with our bad decisions!" Yeap they are, but firing Farrell wouldn't be a bad decision. It wouldn't, but Farrell hasn't done anything wrong in the last few weeks to make the decision easier to make. People need to be able to judge Farrell's performance by using more logic than 'they lost so he sucks'. Seriously, if Cleveland was hitting those 360 foot home runs to CF for outs instead of RF and not getting any bloop hits, would Farrell be a better manager? I do know that people wouldn't be morons complaining about him right now when there was literally nothing he could have done differently to affect the games. Save the complaints for when he does something stupid.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 9, 2016 21:29:14 GMT -5
Yeap they are, but firing Farrell wouldn't be a bad decision. It wouldn't, but Farrell hasn't done anything wrong in the last few weeks to make the decision easier to make. People need to be able to judge Farrell's performance by using more logic than 'they lost so he sucks'. Seriously, if Cleveland was hitting those 360 foot home runs to CF for ous instead of RF and not getting any bloop hits, would Farrell be a better manager? I do know that people wouldn't be morons complaining about him right now when there was literally nothing he could have done differently to affect the games. Save the complaints for when he does something stupid. It's just been time to move on. The sweep would give just a small reason but a reason nontheless. The players didn't come ready to play. Can't fire the players. Someone needs to be held accountable. I prefer it be Dombrowski but Farrell is a start.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 9, 2016 21:31:33 GMT -5
Because injuries happen? Seriously? So, if they send Rick Porcello to play catcher for an inning and he twists his knee, that's ok because injuries happen? The injury to Wright was 100% preventable. He put his THEN best starting pitcher, whose slow, nonathletic, and is unfamiliar with base running into a position to get hurt. Why did he even need to pinch run for Ortiz? The logic doesn't even make sense, but even if he REALLY wanted to do it, why wouldn't you use Pomeranz, who came from the NL and had experience pinch running this year? Why wouldn't you use a BP arm that hasn't been working out too well or a fast runner, like Buchholz? This has been covered ad-naseum. Ortiz was removed from the game the night before because of leg pain, and it was Pomeranz's side day. That means he was available to pitch that night if there was an emergency. Wright might have been a bad guy to run, but he was Farrell's only real option. Why would the Sox want Pomeranz pitching on a side game day when they were trying to keep his innings down? It covers nothing. Wright was the best pitcher on this staff, he shouldn't of been at risk. Even a hobbled Ortiz is a better option.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 9, 2016 21:33:08 GMT -5
The best starter didn't even need to be playing or in harm's way when the injury occurred. This is on the manager. Things like chemistry and steadiness can't be measured. There's no way of knowing another manager could do the same or better, so there's no need to argue about this statement. You remember the chaos that was the short lived Bobby Valentine era? A manager can absolutely destroy the chemistry and wreck the clubhouse. It took Bobby V all of one year. Farrell hasn't done that. Doesn't make him a good manager, but it is easy to say that he has that over Bobby V in spades. I mean there is only one Bobby Valentine. Hopefully that era never comes again. I doubt the next manager would ever be like him.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 9, 2016 21:44:49 GMT -5
You remember the chaos that was the short lived Bobby Valentine era? A manager can absolutely destroy the chemistry and wreck the clubhouse. It took Bobby V all of one year. Farrell hasn't done that. Doesn't make him a good manager, but it is easy to say that he has that over Bobby V in spades. I mean there is only one Bobby Valentine. Hopefully that era never comes again. I doubt the next manager would ever be like him. He's an extreme case, but there are some managers that players really can't stand to play for and it can affect their performance or can poison a clubhouse. Joe Kerrigan's short reign was another example off the top of my head. Don Zimmer certainly had a polarizing affect on the ballclub as evidenced by the Buffalo Head brigade. Even a "successful" manager like Tom Kelly was a total detriment to a young David Ortiz. Managers can have a profound affect on players and their performance and not necessarily for the good. And those things aren't always measure in Xs and Os. That's why Tito was the best. He was a thinking manager who knew how to get the best out of his players. And despite my general disdain for a lot of Farrell's game strategies/bullpen usage/pinch running choices I think he's good at keeping the team cohesive. If they do turn away from Farrell, my guess is that Lovullo, if he's not elsewhere would be the first choice, or they could look at Jason Varitek, who is already in the organization and I believed interviewed for the Mariners job at one point. I think he has respect, if not managerial experience, within the organization.
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Post by bigpupp on Oct 9, 2016 21:57:47 GMT -5
This has been covered ad-naseum. Ortiz was removed from the game the night before because of leg pain, and it was Pomeranz's side day. That means he was available to pitch that night if there was an emergency. Wright might have been a bad guy to run, but he was Farrell's only real option. Why would the Sox want Pomeranz pitching on a side game day when they were trying to keep his innings down? It covers nothing. Wright was the best pitcher on this staff, he shouldn't of been at risk. Even a hobbled Ortiz is a better option. If someone tells you they like to have a savings account in case they have a medical emergency do you turn around and ask, "Why would you save that money if you don't want to have an emergency?" Of course not. Saving Pomeranz for an emergency doesn't mean they wanted to use him. Just the same way I don't want to spend a few thousand dollars on a medical emergency. But I'm prepared for one if it happens. Just as the Sox were that night by saving Pomeranz for extra innings in case something went wrong. Yes, something else happened that night, but blaming Farrell for injuries is about the worst criticism I can think of. Especially when they're is plenty of things to actually criticize him about.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 9, 2016 22:13:28 GMT -5
Why would the Sox want Pomeranz pitching on a side game day when they were trying to keep his innings down? It covers nothing. Wright was the best pitcher on this staff, he shouldn't of been at risk. Even a hobbled Ortiz is a better option. If someone tells you they like to have a savings account in case they have a medical emergency do you turn around and ask, "Why would you save that money if you don't want to have an emergency?" Of course not. Saving Pomeranz for an emergency doesn't mean they wanted to use him. Just the same way I don't want to spend a few thousand dollars on a medical emergency. But I'm prepared for one if it happens. Just as the Sox were that night by saving Pomeranz for extra innings in case something went wrong. Yes, something else happened that night, but blaming Farrell for injuries is about the worst criticism I can think of. Especially when they're is plenty of things to actually criticize him about. I just agree to disagree. It was a decision and there wasn't one clear cut direction or choice as you make it seem. That's all I have to say about this.
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Post by soxjim on Oct 9, 2016 23:00:23 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of Farrell but I don't think he gets fired. Don't see much of a upgrade available. 80 to 90% of managers would do about the same with the same kind of mistakes. I really think there's 2 or 3 managers who have a noticeable impact on their teams and don't think we're prying them away from their current teams. If Farrell gets replaced, I don't think it moves our long term outlook much unless we find the next big time manager but that's unlikely considering how samey most of them are. What we really need is our other young players to get Mookie's consistency. The slumps that Bogaerts and JBJ went in really hurt. Our lineup went from having 6 or 7 tough at bats in row to having 3 useless spots in SS, CF, and 3B with catcher dipping as well. That made it tough to string anything together since the winning streak ended In regards to Farell (I don't want to get into Mookie- this isn't the thread for it.), I don't believe you are correct at all. I could be wrong on this point but as far as I know not one manager all year used a pitcher as a pinch runner. But much more importantly the Red Sox had a pitcher that was more superior than Wright - was more experienced and is faster. The sox were supposedly desperate for a run and they don't use the guy much more capable? So in this case 80% ot 90% of the managers wouldn't have made this move and it's illustrative of the many dumb moves Farrell does make which the pythag seems to back up.
With all the close games we blew leading up to September, you think 80-90% of the managers would also be as inept? Nah- I don't believe it. We've seen a ton of ineptness this year (Farrell) greater than many managers.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 10, 2016 16:13:13 GMT -5
Boston Red Sox manager John Farrell battled the hot seat for most of the season before the Red Sox pulled away and won the AL East. Boston's performance down the stretch has likely saved his job, for the time being. Rumor CentralESPN's Jim Bowden reports that Farrell will start next season as the Red Sox's manager even if they lose their AL Division Series to the Cleveland Indians. However, Bowden believes that he would start 2017 on the hot seat. Farrell appeared to have been close to losing his job this year, but led the Red Sox to the playoffs after two consecutive last-place finishes If the Red Sox do decide to part ways with Farrell, bench coach Torey Lovullo could be the most likely option to replace him. www.espn.com/blog/mlb/rumors/post/_/id/29592/mlb-rumor-central-john-farrells-job-likely-safe-for-now
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 10, 2016 16:36:31 GMT -5
Boston Red Sox manager John Farrell battled the hot seat for most of the season before the Red Sox pulled away and won the AL East. Boston's performance down the stretch has likely saved his job, for the time being. Rumor CentralESPN's Jim Bowden reports that Farrell will start next season as the Red Sox's manager even if they lose their AL Division Series to the Cleveland Indians. However, Bowden believes that he would start 2017 on the hot seat. Farrell appeared to have been close to losing his job this year, but led the Red Sox to the playoffs after two consecutive last-place finishes If the Red Sox do decide to part ways with Farrell, bench coach Torey Lovullo could be the most likely option to replace him. www.espn.com/blog/mlb/rumors/post/_/id/29592/mlb-rumor-central-john-farrells-job-likely-safe-for-nowThere's hope....Bowden is always wrong...
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 10, 2016 16:43:32 GMT -5
Boston Red Sox manager John Farrell battled the hot seat for most of the season before the Red Sox pulled away and won the AL East. Boston's performance down the stretch has likely saved his job, for the time being. Rumor CentralESPN's Jim Bowden reports that Farrell will start next season as the Red Sox's manager even if they lose their AL Division Series to the Cleveland Indians. However, Bowden believes that he would start 2017 on the hot seat. Farrell appeared to have been close to losing his job this year, but led the Red Sox to the playoffs after two consecutive last-place finishes If the Red Sox do decide to part ways with Farrell, bench coach Torey Lovullo could be the most likely option to replace him. www.espn.com/blog/mlb/rumors/post/_/id/29592/mlb-rumor-central-john-farrells-job-likely-safe-for-nowNext year is the last year of his contract. If he doesn't get an extension this winter, it's clear he's gone at the first sign of trouble. They don't usually go with lame-duck managers, though I don't know how DDo operates in that situation.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 10, 2016 20:57:28 GMT -5
Boston Red Sox manager John Farrell battled the hot seat for most of the season before the Red Sox pulled away and won the AL East. Boston's performance down the stretch has likely saved his job, for the time being. Rumor CentralESPN's Jim Bowden reports that Farrell will start next season as the Red Sox's manager even if they lose their AL Division Series to the Cleveland Indians. However, Bowden believes that he would start 2017 on the hot seat. Farrell appeared to have been close to losing his job this year, but led the Red Sox to the playoffs after two consecutive last-place finishes If the Red Sox do decide to part ways with Farrell, bench coach Torey Lovullo could be the most likely option to replace him. www.espn.com/blog/mlb/rumors/post/_/id/29592/mlb-rumor-central-john-farrells-job-likely-safe-for-nowGoing into a season with a manager you're looking to fire seems like one of the dumbest things you could do but ok.
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Post by pokeefe363 on Oct 10, 2016 21:36:34 GMT -5
I hope he gets fired. So many mistakes were made between bullpen management, pinch hitting choices, etc.
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Post by Coreno on Oct 10, 2016 21:55:51 GMT -5
The sweep isn't on him, though he did make some pretty "meh" moves. But, I hope he's gone. I wanted him gone when they we're struggling months ago. It was bittersweet when they went on tears because I knew they probably lost their chance to cut ties. Hopefully a first round sweep provides the narrative to make the move now. Neither he nor Willis should put that uniform back on.
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Post by klostrophobic on Oct 10, 2016 22:02:13 GMT -5
They should have fired him when he let Brandon Workman hit. Or right off the duckboat. Or during the 2013-14 offseason. But now that he's made it this far I think they should perhaps fire him. Maybe not tonight, but definitely tomorrow.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 10, 2016 22:15:28 GMT -5
Ownership probably won't want to fire him before the contract is up but my guess is Dombrowski wouldn't be too keen on extending someone who pretty clearly isn't his guy, and has under performed three years in a row.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 10, 2016 23:25:34 GMT -5
Hopefully Farrell and Willis will have an opportunity to enjoy some leisure time.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 11, 2016 10:06:10 GMT -5
I hate to see anyone lose their job in this economy, but this manager, conservatively, lost this team 8 games this year with bad in-game management. As I said, if I was the GM, I would've fired him in June. Not sure how much Dombrowski values the game-management component of Farrell's job, as I've heard the biggest part is managing 25+ short-career egos for 6+ months. If they keep him, they'll have to give him an extension.
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Post by amfox1 on Oct 11, 2016 11:09:24 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 11:53:30 GMT -5
While I don't think Farrell is a good in-game manager, I do get the impression that he is well-liked by his players. That counts for something. My guess is that Farrell is back next year. I think the Red Sox have more pressing needs this offseason, like trying to replace 35 home runs and 120 RBIs in the middle of the lineup. There are no in house candidates to replace that kind of production, which makes me think they will go after Encarnacion, and I think DD will be willing to overspend to make sure he gets him.
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Post by amfox1 on Oct 11, 2016 13:02:18 GMT -5
Tim Britton @timbritton 18s19 seconds ago Dombrowski: "John Farrell will be our manager in 2017." Entire staff will be invited back.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 11, 2016 13:05:58 GMT -5
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Post by bigpupp on Oct 11, 2016 13:18:22 GMT -5
There will be nightly therapy sessions running in the throw down forum for anyone that feels they can't get through life with Farrell as the manager.
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Post by amfox1 on Oct 11, 2016 13:21:03 GMT -5
Dombrowski with an excellent explanation of the manager's role in the press conference. Should be required viewing for everyone who has posted in this thread.
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