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John Farrell: To fire or not to fire...
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Post by brianthetaoist on Apr 22, 2016 10:52:30 GMT -5
I think I may care the least about in-game management as anyone here, but I'm convinced that Farrell needs to go. First, he really is an awful in-game manager. I accept that there are often other priorities than maximizing the win probability that particular day (like resting relievers, properly managing work-load of older players, nagging injuries or personal issues we in the public aren't privy to, blah, blah), but I think it's pretty clear that that's not what happens with Farrell. He's just bad at managing the game.
But, the bigger issue with me is that the team has consistently played poorly with him as manager. I always loved Terry Francona as a manager, and his in-game decisions in the season were sometimes questionable. But the team just ran smoothly. He was a true manager, putting his players in the best place to succeed, and I just don't think Farrell has done that. The 2013 team was a unique assemblage of players and people who worked together. But that seems to be a fluke of the personalities that year because Farrell for whatever reason simply can't manage people.
I run a small company, and I have to make decisions all the time on small matters, different but analogous to in-game decisions. But the FAR more important job is to talk to my staff all the time, make sure their heads are in the right place, that they can remain focused on their work properly to work happily and efficiently. I'm pretty convinced that Farrell sucks at that, and it shows up in a team that consistently underperforms expectations and loses in often irritating fashion.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 22, 2016 10:57:06 GMT -5
My perspective is that throughout the greatest majority of his managerial career, his teams have seriously under-performed pre-season estimates. It's well past the point that you can call it statistical static. Cogent...my man...cogent. Add: Not since Saddam Hussein had "elections" has the results of a poll been so apparent among eligible voters..as this has been.
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Post by brendan98 on Apr 22, 2016 11:21:47 GMT -5
It's a landslide ... fire Farrell, bring on Lovullo.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Apr 22, 2016 11:28:15 GMT -5
What exactly does he do well other than stroke the egos of veteran free agent signings?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 22, 2016 11:28:15 GMT -5
Pete Abraham is making himself look bad by completely ignoring the last two years and calling Farrell's lack of success a SSS. He's basically just trolling random fans on Twitter, while sadly having complete confidence in his incorrect opinion. That guy has become more and more Cafardo like instead of learning the game better as time goes on.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Apr 22, 2016 12:36:05 GMT -5
The Boston Globe in general just doesn't have the best sports coverage. Not sure whats going on over there.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Apr 22, 2016 12:40:08 GMT -5
Pretty damning results to this poll so far.
I wonder if they boot him when Erod and Smith come back. Not sure if they give him a shot with those guys (with something closer to the intended roster) or if they boot him right before so Lovullo's team has reinforcements and it looks like they made the right call.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 22, 2016 13:06:48 GMT -5
Just something to consider.
If Farrell does get the heave-ho and Lovullo becomes the manager, yes there will be a bench coach vacancy.
I honestly think (and this is so not an original idea) that Jason Varitek might make an excellent long-term managerial candidate. If my memory serves me correctly I think he had a shot at the Seattle Mariners managerial job but didn't get it.
Tek has never managed anywhere but I don't think that's a big stumbling block anymore as I think Ventura and Matheny got their jobs without ever managing in the minors.
If Tek did indeed interview for the M's gig, then he's obviously interested in becoming a manager Perhaps a stint as bench coach could prepare him.
Tek certainly knows pitching as he learned from the best - Pedro. He's always been the kind of guy who commanded respect among his peers and was respected for his knowledge of the game. I would think he'd have a better feel for how to run a bullpen and discern when the starter is finished for the day.
Just something to think about down the road. I'd hate to see Tek wind up elsewhere with an opportunity that I think he might be able to run with here at some point down the road.
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Post by jmei on Apr 22, 2016 13:09:43 GMT -5
If Varitek wanted an assistant coaching job, he'd have gotten one already (whether in Boston or elsewhere). He doesn't really need one (he's already interviewing for manager jobs, and teams are increasingly willing to hire managers with no or limited managing experience), and I doubt he'd enjoy the everyday grind enough to want to do it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 22, 2016 13:23:09 GMT -5
If Varitek wanted an assistant coaching job, he'd have gotten one already (whether in Boston or elsewhere). He doesn't really need one (he's already interviewing for manager jobs, and teams are increasingly willing to hire managers with no or limited managing experience), and I doubt he'd enjoy the everyday grind enough to want to do it. I can see that. It makes sense. But my larger point is that everybody simply has Farrell giving way to Lovullo and for this season that certainly could happen, but for the long-term I think it could make sense to seriously look at Varitek as a managerial candidate come 2017.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 22, 2016 13:34:36 GMT -5
Varitek definitely doesn't need the experience of being a bench coach. He did that for 15 years.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 22, 2016 14:18:02 GMT -5
I would love Varitek as a bench coach and future manager.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Apr 22, 2016 14:39:35 GMT -5
The Boston Globe in general just doesn't have the best sports coverage. Not sure whats going on over there. I agree except for Alex Speier. Cafardo has been writing the same columns for about 5 years running. Abrahams and Volin take the Bart Hubbach approach by devoting way too much time to social media and not nearly enough time researching and writing articles that are worth reading.
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Post by okin15 on Apr 22, 2016 15:41:47 GMT -5
The Boston Globe in general just doesn't have the best sports coverage. Not sure whats going on over there. I agree except for Alex Speier. Cafardo has been writing the same columns for about 5 years running. Abrahams and Volin take the Bart Hubbach approach by devoting way too much time to social media and not nearly enough time researching and writing articles that are worth reading. I feel like someone isn't letting Speier write over there. Or at least the globe is so screwy that it's hard to find his writing. So sad, as he was both prolific and spot on at WEEI. As for Farrell, I've been resisting, but I'd be fine if he were gone. It really couldn't get any worse than it is, and with Lovullo, it might get way better. I hope he'd have enough support in place though, as I'm not super comfortable with any of the in-house candidates doing bench OR supporting the pitching staff enough without Farrell there. That's where Varitek could certainly come into play. It's really too bad they couldn't have negotiated a swap for Farrell and Lovullo during the off-season. No idea how you would, but it would have been a great fit.
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 22, 2016 16:10:31 GMT -5
For those critical of John's in game management and want to promote Lovullo, do you believe he makes those decisions in a vacuum? What are bench coaches for, anyway? I see them constantly communicating in the dugout. Also see John chatting with the pitching coach on pitcher issues. Not saying it's management by committee, but those guys all have a voice on game decisions.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Apr 22, 2016 16:14:59 GMT -5
For those critical of John's in game management and want to promote Lovullo, do you believe he makes those decisions in a vacuum? What are bench coaches for, anyway? I see them constantly communicating in the dugout. Also see John chatting with the pitching coach on pitcher issues. Not saying it's management by committee, but those guys all have a voice on game decisions. Lol, this is a nice piece of fiction. Yes, of course Lovullo is involved. But it is Farrell's choice, and he does not go to Lovullo for every choice. I think it was on a podcast, maybe with Bradford where Lovullo sort of outlined what he does. He's there to help Farrell, support him, and at times challenge him. It's dumb to sit there and say "Lovullo is probably the same guy." We've seen Lovullo manage, and he's a decidedly different manager. I honestly can't even really ever mentioning Lovullo when he was managing, and so far Farrell has dominated the storylines with his poor choices.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Apr 22, 2016 16:40:35 GMT -5
Sometimes there's really nothing specific that stands out as a reason why an entity is failing.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Apr 22, 2016 16:41:43 GMT -5
......and this is one of those times. In the overall, he's fine, but on the field, where it counts most is where he's weakest. Change is good
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Apr 22, 2016 16:53:55 GMT -5
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Post by mgoetze on Apr 22, 2016 17:00:17 GMT -5
We've seen Lovullo manage, and he's a decidedly different manager. Then again, the season was clearly lost so he might have had a clear mandate to play the young guys anyway. I've always been suspicious of how good Lovullo might be because of how close he is with Farrell; last season was a positive sign but not absolute proof that he makes a good manager. Nevertheless, at this point, I can't imagine him or pretty much anyone being an actual downgrade from Farrell.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 22, 2016 18:28:20 GMT -5
What exactly does he do well other than stroke the egos of veteran free agent signings? Does he even do that well? Look at what happened with Hanley and Sandoval last year... He gets the credit for 2013, but really, the number of players on that team with the reputation of being good clubhouse guys/team leaders/etc is pretty staggering. Pedroia, Ortiz, Napoli, Gomes, Ross, Victorino, Lackey, Uehara, Middlebrooks, probably more. Does this seem like a really tough group of guys to manage? Did Farrell bring this group together? Or was this the one group so strong that even Farrell couldn't screw it up? Going by every other year he's managed a team, I'm leaning towards the second option.
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Post by dridiot on Apr 22, 2016 21:23:22 GMT -5
I agree except for Alex Speier. Cafardo has been writing the same columns for about 5 years running. Abrahams and Volin take the Bart Hubbach approach by devoting way too much time to social media and not nearly enough time researching and writing articles that are worth reading. I feel like someone isn't letting Speier write over there. Or at least the globe is so screwy that it's hard to find his writing. So sad, as he was both prolific and spot on at WEEI. As for Farrell, I've been resisting, but I'd be fine if he were gone. It really couldn't get any worse than it is, and with Lovullo, it might get way better. I hope he'd have enough support in place though, as I'm not super comfortable with any of the in-house candidates doing bench OR supporting the pitching staff enough without Farrell there. That's where Varitek could certainly come into play. It's really too bad they couldn't have negotiated a swap for Farrell and Lovullo during the off-season. No idea how you would, but it would have been a great fit. You can subscribe directly to Speier's mailing list: pages.email.bostonglobe.com/108StitchesSignUp/?bc_em=harrisonchen@gmail.com&s_campaign=108stitches:newsletterNo paywall. At some point I realized that Boston.com, while run by the Boston Globe, is basically the place where they stash all their burner social-media-clickbait-type articles. I tend to not even visit it anymore. I don't subscribe to the Globe so I don't know if their print articles are any better, but I know all of Speier's articles end up in there.
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Post by jmei on Apr 24, 2016 10:02:31 GMT -5
Dombrowski on Farrell ( link):
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 24, 2016 12:30:39 GMT -5
For those critical of John's in game management and want to promote Lovullo, do you believe he makes those decisions in a vacuum? What are bench coaches for, anyway? I see them constantly communicating in the dugout. Also see John chatting with the pitching coach on pitcher issues. Not saying it's management by committee, but those guys all have a voice on game decisions. Lol, this is a nice piece of fiction. Yes, of course Lovullo is involved. But it is Farrell's choice, and he does not go to Lovullo for every choice. I think it was on a podcast, maybe with Bradford where Lovullo sort of outlined what he does. He's there to help Farrell, support him, and at times challenge him. C It's dumb to sit there and say "Lovullo is probably the same guy." We've seen Lovullo manage, and he's a decidedly different manager. I honestly can't even really ever mentioning Lovullo when he was managing, and so far Farrell has dominated the storylines with his poor choices. It's not just my opinion about Farrell's decision making. Checkout Nick Cafardo' column in today's Globe Notes. Www.bostonglobe.com. He may not be popular on this board but he is constantly with the team on the road (along with Peter Abraham) and at home. He is no Farrell apologist. Gives all the reasons while John will not be fired, at least in the short term.
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Post by dnfl333 on Apr 24, 2016 20:23:36 GMT -5
Pitching once again is ? All the Farrell talk has the Pitching coach getting a pass?
Farrell has a very stressful job here in Boston. Like Epstein said, "the pressure to win is intense"..
June 1st in last or below .500 I would fire everybody not named Butterfield..
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