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John Farrell: To fire or not to fire...
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 24, 2016 21:43:44 GMT -5
Injuries to Rodriguez and Smith cannot be understated. Now Kelly is on the DL with a shoulder problem. Those are not Farrell's fault and really handicaps him in his roster strategy.
Fortunately, Smith and E-Rod should be back in a couple of weeks and Kelly's injury does not appear to be serious. Looking forward to what this team does with a full complement.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 24, 2016 23:38:17 GMT -5
Can anyone give me an example of a time when there was a debate on firing a coach and the decision to keep them has ever paid off? I kind of feel that once you enter that territory, your time is already up.
With the way this front office loves to trash and smear people on their way out the door, I'm surprised they didn't use Farrell's misconduct as an excuse to show him the door.
He is a terrible in-game manager who can't stick to a coherent plan from game-to-game.
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 25, 2016 0:03:33 GMT -5
The debate only exists among the fans and the "sky is falling" radio hacks. I don't believe, nor have I seen reports that John's job is in jeopardy, from anyone in the know.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 25, 2016 0:08:03 GMT -5
The debate only exists among the fans and the "sky is falling" radio hacks. I don't believe, nor have I seen reports that John's job is in jeopardy, from anyone in the know. Can you give examples of how John Farrell is a good manager?
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 25, 2016 0:29:02 GMT -5
Sure. First I have to commend him for sitting Sandoval and giving the 3B job to someone who earned it. A lesser manager would feel reluctant to do that considering all the money the owners had invested in the Panda. Secondly, he recognized Mookie and Bogaerts' talent and stuck with them giving them a chance to develop. Thirdly, he assigned Butterfield to work continuously with Ramirez in spring training. He's become passable at that position until now.
A couple of years ago he led an unlikely crew to a Championship. Must have done something right.
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Post by jmei on Apr 25, 2016 5:19:38 GMT -5
I don't know that it's fair to give Farrell credit for playing Shaw over Sandoval. That seems like a front office decision.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 25, 2016 6:00:16 GMT -5
I don't know that it's fair to give Farrell credit for playing Shaw over Sandoval. That seems like a front office decision. To piggy back off this, Sandoval came into camp grotesquely out of shape while Shaw played very well down the stretch last season and shined all spring. Seemed like an easy call. Xander was a top 5 prospect in baseball and they have no other options. In fact, John Farrell was playing Stephen Drew over Xander when given the chance. Mookie mashed his way to the majors before he could ever get properly ranked. Mookie moved to the outfield as an experiment to get his bat into the lineup because they already had Pedrioa, but no outfielders. Edit: Plus, plenty of bad managers have won championships. Remember, Brandon Workman had an at bat during the World Series.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 25, 2016 7:33:57 GMT -5
Dombrowski on Farrell ( link): And they were extremely pleased with the work Pablo did over the offseason and never told him to lose weight, despite the fact that they put him on a weight loss program while on the DL. The new regime is not too forthcoming.
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 25, 2016 8:20:02 GMT -5
Dombrowski on Farrell ( link): And they were extremely pleased with the work Pablo did over the offseason and never told him to lose weight, despite the fact that they put him on a weight loss program while on the DL. The new regime is not too forthcoming. The arguments you quoted here clearly show that the President agrees that Farrell has done a good job. Read into whatever you please but remember: Dombrowski has the final say on any managerial change. Looks like he's sticking around for a while.
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 25, 2016 8:24:25 GMT -5
I don't know that it's fair to give Farrell credit for playing Shaw over Sandoval. That seems like a front office decision. You're going to believe what you want to believe. That's your right.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 25, 2016 8:28:01 GMT -5
And they were extremely pleased with the work Pablo did over the offseason and never told him to lose weight, despite the fact that they put him on a weight loss program while on the DL. The new regime is not too forthcoming. The arguments you quoted here clearly show that the President agrees that Farrell has done a good job. Read into whatever you please but remember: Dombrowski has the final say on any managerial change. Looks like he's sticking around for a while. I think he's just saying it while he's still the manager. He'll say the same crap right up until the day he's fired.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 25, 2016 8:31:23 GMT -5
I don't know that it's fair to give Farrell credit for playing Shaw over Sandoval. That seems like a front office decision. You're going to believe what you want to believe. That's your right. Anyone who watched Pablo play in Spring Training without any knowledge of who he was would wonder why he was considered a major league player. He looked even worse in the field than he did last season. I doubt there was any debate over who should start.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Apr 25, 2016 9:01:59 GMT -5
A few thoughts from last night. I thought it was a good call from Farrell to leave in Hembree for his 3rd inning & not bring in Layne or Light. I know this was expected, but I had the fear Farrell would pull him. so give him some credit there. Also, no talk of the error in the late innings on Shaw's booted ball. If it was Panda, we'd all be talking about it.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Apr 25, 2016 9:08:55 GMT -5
I don't know that it's fair to give Farrell credit for playing Shaw over Sandoval. That seems like a front office decision. You're going to believe what you want to believe. That's your right. Aren't you too? I mean nobody actually knows with certainty how the decision was made.
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Post by okin15 on Apr 25, 2016 10:09:04 GMT -5
Can anyone give me an example of a time when there was a debate on firing a coach and the decision to keep them has ever paid off? I kind of feel that once you enter that territory, your time is already up. With the way this front office loves to trash and smear people on their way out the door, I'm surprised they didn't use Farrell's misconduct as an excuse to show him the door. He is a terrible in-game manager who can't stick to a coherent plan from game-to-game. The only one I can think of is from another sport. Tom Caughlin was on the hot seat, and then won the Super Bowl. Not that I have an exhaustive list in my head, by any extent. That's the one that jumps out though. I suppose there was some discussion that Claude Julien was on the hot seat before he won his championship as well, no?
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Post by okin15 on Apr 25, 2016 10:13:12 GMT -5
Injuries to Rodriguez and Smith cannot be understated. Now Kelly is on the DL with a shoulder problem. Those are not Farrell's fault and really handicaps him in his roster strategy. Fortunately, Smith and E-Rod should be back in a couple of weeks and Kelly's injury does not appear to be serious. Looking forward to what this team does with a full complement. When was the last time you remember any team having a full 25 game roster. I mean, in '04, the Sox got 29+ starts from each of their starters, but that was basically magic, never to be repeated again. And they did have other injuries. All teams have injuries. Losing a 3rd bullpen arm and a 4th starting pitcher shouldn't doom a team, and if it does, that's on the FO and manager, not bad luck.
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 25, 2016 10:19:30 GMT -5
You're going to believe what you want to believe. That's your right. Aren't you too? I mean nobody actually knows with certainty how the decision was made. Exactly. That was my point in submitting the response.
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 25, 2016 10:28:39 GMT -5
Injuries to Rodriguez and Smith cannot be understated. Now Kelly is on the DL with a shoulder problem. Those are not Farrell's fault and really handicaps him in his roster strategy. Fortunately, Smith and E-Rod should be back in a couple of weeks and Kelly's injury does not appear to be serious. Looking forward to what this team does with a full complement. When was the last time you remember any team having a full 25 game roster. I mean, in '04, the Sox got 29+ starts from each of their starters, but that was basically magic, never to be repeated again. And they did have other injuries. All teams have injuries. Losing a 3rd bullpen arm and a 4th starting pitcher shouldn't doom a team, and if it does, that's on the FO and manager, not bad luck. It's not the manager's fault that his #3 starter and #1 setup guy were injured. As you say, all teams have injuries. Was Farrell supposed to call up Owens earlier? Or did inserting Wright into the rotation help to stabilize the staff? But, John's detractors here, of which there are many, won't give him credit for that. Anyway, I'm finished with this thread as I'm sure other posters are pleased. Dombrowski likes Farrell. That's good enough for me.
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Post by mgoetze on Apr 25, 2016 10:46:28 GMT -5
Can anyone give me an example of a time when there was a debate on firing a coach and the decision to keep them has ever paid off? The only one I can think of is from another sport. Tom Caughlin was on the hot seat, and then won the Super Bowl. Yeah and after he won the Super Bowl in 2011 they then kept him around for another 4 years. How did that work out for them?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 25, 2016 12:50:33 GMT -5
Can anyone give me an example of a time when there was a debate on firing a coach and the decision to keep them has ever paid off? I kind of feel that once you enter that territory, your time is already up. With the way this front office loves to trash and smear people on their way out the door, I'm surprised they didn't use Farrell's misconduct as an excuse to show him the door. He is a terrible in-game manager who can't stick to a coherent plan from game-to-game. The only one I can think of is from another sport. Tom Caughlin was on the hot seat, and then won the Super Bowl. Not that I have an exhaustive list in my head, by any extent. That's the one that jumps out though. I suppose there was some discussion that Claude Julien was on the hot seat before he won his championship as well, no? Coughlin is a great example. Claude, not to derail too much, but to a lesser extent he's kind of in a similar situation to Farrel. What I mean by that is, did he just luck into one? Tim Thomas was historically good in that cup run. I do think he's a good coach (unlike Farrell), but that win was a fluke.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 25, 2016 12:55:14 GMT -5
Off topic question, how does Francona get fired, but not Farrell?
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Post by Guidas on Apr 25, 2016 13:15:46 GMT -5
Off topic question, how does Francona get fired, but not Farrell? Mr. Larry never liked him. Like ever. Hated Joe Maddon when he interviewed, too, from all reports.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 25, 2016 15:08:51 GMT -5
@timbritton 2m2 minutes ago Red Sox v. Teheran: Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Shaw 1B, Rutledge 3B, Holt, Bradley, Vazquez, Porcello.
OK, how about they fire him now? Now would be good.
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Post by mgoetze on Apr 25, 2016 15:14:55 GMT -5
@timbritton 2m2 minutes ago Red Sox v. Teheran: Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Shaw 1B, Rutledge 3B, Holt, Bradley, Vazquez, Porcello. OK, how about they fire him now? Now would be good. Yeah, Rutledge is batting .600 and he didn't even put him in the top 4 of the order?!?
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 25, 2016 15:20:10 GMT -5
@timbritton 2m2 minutes ago Red Sox v. Teheran: Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Shaw 1B, Rutledge 3B, Holt, Bradley, Vazquez, Porcello. OK, how about they fire him now? Now would be good. Why don't you wait till we get the full story. Such as “@peteabe: #RedSox got to their hotel at 5:30 a.m. if you’re wondering about the lineup changes.”
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