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John Farrell: To fire or not to fire...
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 25, 2016 15:24:58 GMT -5
I don't know that it's fair to give Farrell credit for playing Shaw over Sandoval. That seems like a front office decision. There is basically a rule for this these days: If something goes wrong, blame Farrell. If something goes right, praise everyone else.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 25, 2016 15:48:14 GMT -5
I don't know that it's fair to give Farrell credit for playing Shaw over Sandoval. That seems like a front office decision. There is basically a rule for this these days: If something goes wrong, blame Farrell. If something goes right, praise everyone else. My rule is more like: If something is decided in game, blame Farrell. If something happens like determining a long term starter or roster decisions, there was likely a group of people making the decisions in meetings with DDo having final say. I really doubt that Farrell has as much authority as he used to, because there is no way in hell he would have started Shaw over Pablo before this year.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 25, 2016 15:49:05 GMT -5
@timbritton 2m2 minutes ago Red Sox v. Teheran: Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Shaw 1B, Rutledge 3B, Holt, Bradley, Vazquez, Porcello. OK, how about they fire him now? Now would be good. Why don't you wait till we get the full story. Such as “@peteabe: #RedSox got to their hotel at 5:30 a.m. if you’re wondering about the lineup changes.” Because I'm having a lousy day, wanted him fired in 2014 and 2015 and wasn't a huge fan of his hiring. So not biased at all. But I'm guessing this effectively gives Hanley two days off, too.
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Post by okin15 on Apr 25, 2016 15:59:13 GMT -5
The only one I can think of is from another sport. Tom Caughlin was on the hot seat, and then won the Super Bowl. Yeah and after he won the Super Bowl in 2011 they then kept him around for another 4 years. How did that work out for them? Give me a frigging break with your BS revisionist history. Such trolling. And in case you just didn't bother to look it up, he was on the hot seat in 2007, going into the playoffs, then won the Super Bowl. Then he won AGAIN four years later. And by no means am I trying to suggest that he's even a good coach here, but I was answering a specific point about how a guy who was on the hot seat didn't give it up and then had success. I still think Farrell should be fired, but I don't think that it's a sure bet. Maybe he's a good manager who is out-thinking himself. Or maybe Lovullo is whispering stupid stuff in his ear so that he can get the job. I certainly don't think that Lovullo is as much better a manager as last year's stretch run seemed to show. And I also feel that some of this board's eagerness to release Farrell is due to said stretch run, and the in-house replacement. Without that, there'd be the usual griping, but not the same level of agreement (still hardly a consensus). Of course managing is a tough job, and anyone is going to make a lot of poor decisions, in addition to a lot of good ones that have bad outcomes. It's just that many of us on here, myself included have lost confidence in Farrell.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 25, 2016 16:19:24 GMT -5
I don't know that it's fair to give Farrell credit for playing Shaw over Sandoval. That seems like a front office decision. There is basically a rule for this these days: If something goes wrong, blame Farrell. If something goes right, praise everyone else.I'm not sure there's been enough examples of things going right to establish a pattern...
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,223
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Post by radiohix on Apr 25, 2016 16:25:06 GMT -5
There is basically a rule for this these days: If something goes wrong, blame Farrell. If something goes right, praise everyone else.I'm not sure there's been enough examples of things going right to establish a pattern... Well done sir, well done.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 25, 2016 16:32:09 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's been enough examples of things going right to establish a pattern...
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Post by Guidas on Apr 25, 2016 16:44:35 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's been enough examples of things going right to establish a pattern... Outlier.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 25, 2016 16:58:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure there's been enough examples of things going right to establish a pattern... You tell me which is more of a credit to Farrell: With Farrell as the manager: 2011 Blue Jays: 81-81 2012 Blue Jays: 73-89 2013 Red Sox: 97-65 2014 Red Sox: 71-91 2015 Red Sox: 78-84 2016 Red Sox: 9-9 Without Farrell as the manager: 2010 Blue Jays: 85-77 2011 Red Sox: 90-72 (man, do I miss when 90 wins was a problem) 2012 Red Sox: 69-93* 2013 Blue Jays: 74-88 2014 Blue Jays: 83-79 2015 Blue Jays: 93-69 2016 Blue Jays: 10-10 *Bobby V is an idiot.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 25, 2016 17:09:23 GMT -5
I give Farrell no credit for 2013. Go ahead and judge me.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 25, 2016 18:19:34 GMT -5
See guys, but then you're just proving my point. You Blame Farrell for anything you don't like and praise anyone else for anything you do like.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Apr 25, 2016 18:32:20 GMT -5
Who should be are next Manager???
... ... ...
I want to fire HIM.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 25, 2016 18:51:51 GMT -5
See guys, but then you're just proving my point. You Blame Farrell for anything you don't like and praise anyone else for anything you do like. Managers can screw up more than they can help win games.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,706
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Post by nomar on Apr 25, 2016 19:19:24 GMT -5
See guys, but then you're just proving my point. You Blame Farrell for anything you don't like and praise anyone else for anything you do like. Look at his overall record though. He has grossly underperformed. The playoffs in baseball are a zoo. I'll give him some credit for 2013, and in a nutshell one WS every 3 or 4 years is great, but you should also never finish last as often as he has given our win expectancies. My take... I agree he's being over scrutinized now, but he's still not a good manager, and still should be replaced.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 25, 2016 19:24:23 GMT -5
Managers can screw up more than they can help win games. Yes, another reason why I don't want Farrell to be fired. Besides, when you look at the results of the work he's been doing keep in mind that he really has 2 full years as the Red Sox manager. He has a last place finish a World Series win. You basically need to give him at least this year to fully judge him.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 25, 2016 19:30:58 GMT -5
Managers can screw up more than they can help win games. Yes, another reason why I don't want Farrell to be fired. Besides, when you look at the results of the work he's been doing keep in mind that he really has 2 full years as the Red Sox manager. He has a last place finish a World Series win. You basically need to give him at least this year to fully judge him. If they do well this year, they would have done even better with a different manager IMO. I don't care about his results. I've seen his methodology and it's mind-numbing at times. I really don't think he needs a chance at a 3rd last place finish in a row.
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Post by soxfan06 on Apr 25, 2016 19:32:00 GMT -5
The only reason Farrell wasn't fired was because of the cancer.
Period.
The Red Sox were too afraid to fire someone who just battled cancer. I've been saying for years now, he is one of the worst managers in the MLB. He should have been let go long ago. I just laugh every time I see others come around and just now realize how terrible Farrell is.
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Post by soxfan06 on Apr 25, 2016 19:34:30 GMT -5
Managers can screw up more than they can help win games. Yes, another reason why I don't want Farrell to be fired. Besides, when you look at the results of the work he's been doing keep in mind that he really has 2 full years as the Red Sox manager. He has a last place finish a World Series win. You basically need to give him at least this year to fully judge him. It is pretty lol worthy that you are just ignoring the fact that he lead this team to a last place record last year, and only when Lovullo took over did the Sox work their way out of the bottom 10 in the league. I mean, the funniest part is we have actual proof that the best manager on our roster is the bench coach. But then there are people like you who cover your eyes and pretend to not see it.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 25, 2016 19:36:14 GMT -5
If they do well this year, they would have done even better with a different manager IMO. How do you know that? We can sit and overanalyse each and everyone of his moves, but the fact is that he's won the World Series all of 2 seasons ago. You can't do better than this by definition. That's a more concrete accomplishment than anything you can use to point out against him. I think he deserves at least to finish this year, he's earned that and anything less would border on disrespectful.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 25, 2016 19:38:18 GMT -5
I mean, the funniest part is we have actual proof that the best manager on our roster is the bench coach. But then there are people like you who cover your eyes and pretend to not see it. Don't see what? People on the internet playing armchair quarterback on the micromanagement skills of a World Series winner manager?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 25, 2016 19:40:50 GMT -5
If they do well this year, they would have done even better with a different manager IMO. How do you know that? We can sit and overanalyse each and everyone of his moves, but the fact is that he's won the World Series all of 2 seasons ago. You can't do better than this by definition. That's a more concrete accomplishment than anything you can use to point out against him. I think he deserves at least to finish this year, he's earned that and anything less would border on disrespectful. Winning a World Series really doesn't mean as much as you seem to think it does. Many teams with bad managers have won the World Series.
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Post by soxfan06 on Apr 25, 2016 19:44:59 GMT -5
I mean, the funniest part is we have actual proof that the best manager on our roster is the bench coach. But then there are people like you who cover your eyes and pretend to not see it. Don't see what? People on the internet playing armchair quarterback on the micromanagement skills of a World Series winner manager? See this is the most ridiculous strawman argument ever. Yes, John Farrell is a better manager than me and most of the schlubs on the internet. But we aren't suggesting the Red Sox fire him and hire one of us. We are suggesting the fire him and hire someone who is just flat out better than him at the task of managing a professional baseball team. In fact, we are already paying said, better manager.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 25, 2016 19:52:30 GMT -5
Winning a World Series really doesn't mean as much as you seem to think it does. Many teams with bad managers have won the World Series. It means at least that you don't fire him mid-April. Yes, John Farrell is a better manager than me and most of the schlubs on the internet. But we aren't suggesting the Red Sox fire him and hire one of us. We are suggesting the fire him and hire someone who is just flat out better than him at the task of managing a professional baseball team. In fact, we are already paying said, better manager. See that's the thing. We don't know if Lovullo is going to be a better manager all year long. He's done well in a small sample, but we don't know if he's going to that well in the long run. You're going to fire your manager all of one month into the season for this? After what he helped bring the franchise? Because you dislike some of his small decisions?
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Post by soxfan06 on Apr 25, 2016 19:57:25 GMT -5
Yes, John Farrell is a better manager than me and most of the schlubs on the internet. But we aren't suggesting the Red Sox fire him and hire one of us. We are suggesting the fire him and hire someone who is just flat out better than him at the task of managing a professional baseball team. In fact, we are already paying said, better manager. See that's the thing. We don't know if Lovullo is going to be a better manager all year long. He's done well in a small sample, but we don't know if he's going to that well in the long run. You're going to fire your manager all of one month into the season for this? After what he helped bring the franchise? Because you dislike some of his small decisions?[/quote] What he helped bring the franchise? Yeah, consistent last place finishes is something to be happy about....I'm pretty sure we can hire and joe schmoe and finish in last every year.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 25, 2016 20:06:59 GMT -5
If they do well this year, they would have done even better with a different manager IMO. How do you know that? We can sit and overanalyse each and everyone of his moves, but the fact is that he's won the World Series all of 2 seasons ago. You can't do better than this by definition. That's a more concrete accomplishment than anything you can use to point out against him. I think he deserves at least to finish this year, he's earned that and anything less would border on disrespectful. You removed the part of my post that explained why I think it. You can argue that no one knows anything go ahead. Just skip trying to use logic and make Farrell manager for life because he might win the World Series next year.
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