SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
4/25-4/28 Red Sox vs. Braves Series Thread
|
Post by bosox81 on Apr 25, 2016 21:10:15 GMT -5
Fantastic outing by Porcello. Also JBJ with two straight go ahead hits. Gotta boost his confidence.
|
|
|
Post by mandelbro on Apr 25, 2016 21:10:37 GMT -5
I know they're just the Braves but winning a 1-0 game is a credit to the pitching staff. Strong start from Porcello, big K from Robbie Ross, Uehara cleans up and Kimbrel shuts the door
edit: had the facts wrong
|
|
|
Post by beantown on Apr 25, 2016 21:20:21 GMT -5
They can probably read his mind Or watch video of a fatball with no movement. Literally straight as an arrow. If they start their swing soon enough, all they have to do is square it up and it is tater city. Lol. Straight as an arrow and also 98 miles an hour, painted on the black edge... Can't wait to see the hater brigade eat crow at the end of this season when Kimbrel is his unhittable self. Unbelievable that a couple of uninspired, early-season performances are actually erasing confidence in a Hall of Fame, video game-type numbers closer. There, I said it.
|
|
|
Post by sibbysisti on Apr 25, 2016 21:22:41 GMT -5
Good game management by Farrell. The bullpen was toast after the Houston series. He pitched Porcello into the seventh to get one out, then went to Scotty, who was rested. The eight belongs to Koji and the ninth to KKKKimbral. Smith on his way!
Rick now is 4 -0 on the season and pitching with confidence, really helping an injury riddled pitching staff.
|
|
|
Post by zimmerdown on Apr 25, 2016 21:46:06 GMT -5
Or watch video of a fatball with no movement. Literally straight as an arrow. If they start their swing soon enough, all they have to do is square it up and it is tater city. Lol. Straight as an arrow and also 98 miles an hour, painted on the black edge... Can't wait to see the hater brigade eat crow at the end of this season when Kimbrel is his unhittable self. Unbelievable that a couple of uninspired, early-season performances are actually erasing confidence in a Hall of Fame, video game-type numbers closer. There, I said it. Word. I know it's a gameday thread, but the negativity kills me around here sometimes. Even when he wins he loses. (It's the National League..that's all he's good for!)
|
|
|
Post by klostrophobic on Apr 25, 2016 21:48:53 GMT -5
Well is he still injured? He has a lower wRC+ this year than last. And he could be leading the team in wRC+ 3 weeks from now. I really hope the rest of the team doesnt go 0-for-a-month. Hanley's been bad this season. He was bad last season. What indication is there that he'll be good? I hate to mention early season struggles, but they align with his previous calendar year and he's on the wrong side of 30 and his second position change in as many years. Not confident he can produce at anything more than a replacement level anymore.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,195
Member is Online
|
Post by radiohix on Apr 25, 2016 21:51:31 GMT -5
It's not that he's not good, the problem is that he was and still will be an overpay: He's payed a lot of money and to get him DD payed way too much! It's that simple.
|
|
|
Post by sibbysisti on Apr 25, 2016 22:15:46 GMT -5
It's not that he's not good, the problem is that he was and still will be an overpay: He's payed a lot of money and to get him DD payed way too much! It's that simple. DD? I'd check that one out!
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Apr 25, 2016 22:45:10 GMT -5
Or watch video of a fatball with no movement. Literally straight as an arrow. If they start their swing soon enough, all they have to do is square it up and it is tater city. Lol. Straight as an arrow and also 98 miles an hour, painted on the black edge... Can't wait to see the hater brigade eat crow at the end of this season when Kimbrel is his unhittable self. Unbelievable that a couple of uninspired, early-season performances are actually erasing confidence in a Hall of Fame, video game-type numbers closer. There, I said it. I am 100% sure Kimbrell knows he is over throwing and that is what is causing his ball to flatten out, even at 98 mph. Once he gets settled in, he will dominate.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
|
Post by ericmvan on Apr 25, 2016 22:56:55 GMT -5
Or watch video of a fatball with no movement. Literally straight as an arrow. If they start their swing soon enough, all they have to do is square it up and it is tater city. Lol. Straight as an arrow and also 98 miles an hour, painted on the black edge... Can't wait to see the hater brigade eat crow at the end of this season when Kimbrel is his unhittable self. Unbelievable that a couple of uninspired, early-season performances are actually erasing confidence in a Hall of Fame, video game-type numbers closer. There, I said it. The thing is, before tonight he was already about a win of WPA behind what we would have expected from him at that point. I agree that there's not a strong case that he'll be anything other than his old self going forward, as evidenced by tonight, but he's unlikely to recover that win of value. And, as a result, he's likely to end the season as a top 5 closer, rather than the top 1 or 2 closer we paid for. Now, we can certainly hope that he gets on an insane role and is great even by Kimbrel standards the rest of the way, but that is indeed what it's going to take to make this trade really work, for this year, even for the "I'm perfectly comfortable with the overpay" folks.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 25, 2016 22:58:53 GMT -5
It's not that he's not good, the problem is that he was and still will be an overpay: He's payed a lot of money and to get him DD payed way too much! It's that simple. It's not that simple. It's an overpay in a vacuum. If the losses of the four players the Sox sent away isn't greater than what Kimbrel provides them, then it's a "harmless" overpay. To me, name a centerfielder who is a very good fielder and an OK hitter that hits toward the bottom of the order (because he doesn't get on-base well enough to be a good leadoff hitter), a good fielding SS who has occasional pop but strikes out a ton and walks very little, a back end rotation starter and a utility man and ask would you trade those guys for Billy Wagner or Mariano Rivera in his prime? To me, it's not an easy no. I know people are tired of hearing the word "elite" attached to Kimbrel's name, and his performance to date with the Sox is hardly elite, but if his closing career thru 2015 isn't elite, then whose the heck is? I mean does he have to have an ERA below 1 over 20 years to be considered an elite reliever? Over the past five years Kimbrel has been as good as a reliever can be, and he's still young enough to continue on that path over the next 3 seasons, even with a mediocre April 2016. Normally I don't like trading assets for relievers, either, but the Sox didn't just get some schmucky reliever. They got arguably the best. And the guys they gave up could be (and that's hardly a guarantee) okay players, but man, you'd think the Sox gave up a young Freddy Lynn, Nomar Garciaparra, and Jon Lester in the deal. I'll take an outfield of Benintendi/JBJ/Betts over Benintendi/Margot/Betts, although honestly to maximize the Sox potential, I'd rather see a huge offensive force in LF with Betts and Benintendi in CF and RF, although that force might wind up being Moncada, so the Sox would still have 3 CFs roaming the outfield.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
|
Post by ericmvan on Apr 25, 2016 23:05:37 GMT -5
Rick's last 12 games since coming off the DL last year, as of the typing of this post (mid 7th): 82.2 IP 3.28 ERA 9.52 K/9 1.64 BB/9 1.09 HR/9 And two starts ago, Nick Cafardo was telling us that we could hope that Porcello could ameliorate the awful contract extension by improving to the the point of being league-average. Seriously! He had a 2.96 xFIP in his 8 post-DL starts last year. His start-by-start xFIP this year: 3.04 2.71 2.92 3.11
|
|
|
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Apr 25, 2016 23:22:59 GMT -5
They can probably read his mind Or watch video of a fatball with no movement. Literally straight as an arrow. If they start their swing soon enough, all they have to do is square it up and it is tater city. This is a near perfect example of how idiotic this forum can be at times. A guy with about as unhittable track record as you can get lol. Good lord. Epic turdness coming out.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Apr 25, 2016 23:31:28 GMT -5
If you need a guy to be one of the five best players ever at his position to justify a trade, it was probably a bad trade.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
|
Post by ericmvan on Apr 25, 2016 23:37:55 GMT -5
They can probably read his mind Or watch video of a fatball with no movement. Literally straight as an arrow. If they start their swing soon enough, all they have to do is square it up and it is tater city. 1) Kimbrel has averaged 11" of FB movement this year, which places him roughly in the top 15% of MLB pitchers, and the top one pitcher of pitchers who throw as hard as he does. 2) You could have looked that up online very easily before so vehemently asserting the opposite, although to do so quickly would, admittedly, have taken some previous experience in bothering to see if your perceptions of pitch movement conformed to reality, before expressing them. 3) Speaking of which, I've explained at least four or five times here that the human eye and brain have no ability at all to judge vertical FB movement* (and a subpar ability to judge armside run, and almost none on a ball that's been hit rather than getting to the catcher's glove). Perhaps you missed all of those previous explanations. But thank you for proving the point once again. *Any time a FB gets hit hard, we see it as straight. What we perceive as good or bad movement is thus almost entirely location, and Kimbrel has had the bad (mostly) luck of missing into hitter's sweet spots this year.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 26, 2016 0:17:30 GMT -5
Eric brings up a point that everyone should take seriously. Your assertions should be fact based or they'll be shot down. The Internet has democratized information, just about all of it. If it's your opinion, then say that and be prepared to defend it - with those facts. I've painted myself into a corner before, and it's a humbling experience. Try to avoid that.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 26, 2016 0:21:36 GMT -5
If you need a guy to be one of the five best players ever at his position to justify a trade, it was probably a bad trade. jmei, it depends on what you gave up honestly. Are you seriously going to tell me that if Margot winds up being just a so-so regular, not good enough to be a starting outfielder on the Sox, the SS winds up being a glove man with a really low OBP, and you gave up a utility man, and a bottom of the rotation starter, and Kimbrel pitches to his track record (mostly) and provides extra value in October when games count the most (and if you watched Foulke in 04, Papelbon in 07 and Uehara in 13 you know what I'm talking about), that you "lost" the trade that badly, if at all? We'll never know what Margot and company would fetch in another deal. We only know that they weren't good enough to fetch a top of the rotation starter, so they threw a bunch of money at David Price (who like Kimbrel has underachieved thus far but I would anticipate him bouncing back to his what his track record indicates). I get the concept of trading for a reliever as normally being a bad move, but I think some of the hand wringing is over the top. Like I asked before, if say in 2005 (once Foulke went down) the Sox had a chance to get Mariano Rivera (or even Billy Wagner who is a better Kimbrel comparison) and had to surrender a Coco Crisp type (while having Manny, Damon, and Nixon in the OF), an Adam Everett type, and a pick the 4th starter type, would you have done it? Conceptually I don't love the trade, but given their circumstances I don't have a major issue with it. If one of the "untouchables" had been involved, I would be singing a different tune.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 26, 2016 1:18:31 GMT -5
Rick's last 12 games since coming off the DL last year, as of the typing of this post (mid 7th): 82.2 IP 3.28 ERA 9.52 K/9 1.64 BB/9 1.09 HR/9 And two starts ago, Nick Cafardo was telling us that we could hope that Porcello could ameliorate the awful contract extension by improving to the the point of being league-average. Seriously! He had a 2.96 xFIP in his 8 post-DL starts last year. His start-by-start xFIP this year: 3.04 2.71 2.92 3.11 When Cafardo takes a journalistic crap on a guy, it's almost a given that you want to go long on that player, that he's about to turn to gold. His track record is remarkable in a twisted sort of way. Just 4 games, but Porcello is meeting your pitching benchmark, with 30 Ks in 25 1/3 innings, and a WHIP of .94 ... Cafardo strikes again.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Apr 26, 2016 2:14:40 GMT -5
I think CV is a great backup, a guy that catches certain starting pitchers who seem to do better with him catching. OK, sure, we can make CV the "backup" and have him only catch every start by Price, Buchholz, Porcello and E-Rod. I can live with that.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 26, 2016 3:17:04 GMT -5
If you need a guy to be one of the five best players ever at his position to justify a trade, it was probably a bad trade. That's a pretty arbitrary parameter and not one I think most of the proponents of the trade believe. That seems to come from the narratives espoused by people who don't like the trade.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,195
Member is Online
|
Post by radiohix on Apr 26, 2016 7:28:34 GMT -5
David Price is going for the complete game today...I saw it in the flames.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 26, 2016 7:33:26 GMT -5
David Price is going for the complete game today...I saw it in the flames. He's due and that's the lineup that can be shut down quite easily. Honestly the Sox could take all 4 games from Atlanta.
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Apr 26, 2016 7:34:58 GMT -5
I think it hurt a ton pulling the trigger for a one inning reliever but looking at the market Arizona and Houston had to overpay for their additions to. It may have just been the price and sometimes(most of the time) these prospects just don't pan out. It wasnt too terribly long ago this board had a thread about a potential Gio Gonzalez trade coming down to us and Washington and nobody would do it bc of Middlebrooks.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,195
Member is Online
|
Post by radiohix on Apr 26, 2016 7:39:56 GMT -5
David Price is going for the complete game today...I saw it in the flames. He's due and that's the lineup that can be shut down quite easily. Honestly the Sox could take all 4 games from Atlanta. I'm telling you mate, The night is dark and full of cutters! OK, I'll stop now.
|
|
|
Post by ramireja on Apr 26, 2016 9:04:11 GMT -5
If you need a guy to be one of the five best players ever at his position to justify a trade, it was probably a bad trade. On the flip, if you trade for a guy who continues to pitch like he has for the past six years, and that puts him in the conversation for the five best players ever at his position......then it was probably a good trade.
|
|
|