SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 7, 2016 8:21:02 GMT -5
Uh, I, for one, would trade Trey Ball for Hill. Agree on that. I would also not trade Kopech for rentals as he is one the few TOR possibilities in our system. Huge ceiling there.
|
|
|
Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 7, 2016 8:21:21 GMT -5
Do you know Rich Hill's history??? Your offers tell me you don't and your just looking at how he is currently pitching. No team is trading a top 10/20 prospect for a starter that hasn't pitched anywhere close to a full season in a decade. I wouldn't trade Owens straight up for Hill, I wouldn't trade Larkin or Ball straight up for Hill. I wouldn't trade Hernandez for Hill. It's not if he will breakdown it's when. You could get 2 starts, 5 starts or 1 start. Now if you include Reddick you might be able to build a package around Owens, but even with Reddick your not getting Devers. Also knowing Beane he would want young upside guys that most people don't consider top prospects at this time. Yes, I do. But unlike a lot of posters, I am aware that it costs something to get something. Maybe my offer is an overpay. That's fine, I'm obviously not a GM, but a lot of the offers in this subforum would get hung up on. If you have a "better" offer for what it would take to get Hill/Reddick/Doolittle, or a better way to go about filling those holes (trade or otherwise) then I'm all ears. You could have made your post without your first paragraph. It doesn't add anything other than argument. There's a big difference between disagreeing with my offer (ie thinking it's an overpay) and criticizing my supposed knowledge of the players. Respectfully I would ask that you consider how you phrase your posts going forward. I think your language may put people on the defensive and lead to unnecessary back and forths.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 7, 2016 16:52:55 GMT -5
Do you know Rich Hill's history??? Your offers tell me you don't and your just looking at how he is currently pitching. No team is trading a top 10/20 prospect for a starter that hasn't pitched anywhere close to a full season in a decade. I wouldn't trade Owens straight up for Hill, I wouldn't trade Larkin or Ball straight up for Hill. I wouldn't trade Hernandez for Hill. It's not if he will breakdown it's when. You could get 2 starts, 5 starts or 1 start. Now if you include Reddick you might be able to build a package around Owens, but even with Reddick your not getting Devers. Also knowing Beane he would want young upside guys that most people don't consider top prospects at this time. Yes, I do. But unlike a lot of posters, I am aware that it costs something to get something. Maybe my offer is an overpay. That's fine, I'm obviously not a GM, but a lot of the offers in this subforum would get hung up on. If you have a "better" offer for what it would take to get Hill/Reddick/Doolittle, or a better way to go about filling those holes (trade or otherwise) then I'm all ears. You could have made your post without your first paragraph. It doesn't add anything other than argument. There's a big difference between disagreeing with my offer (ie thinking it's an overpay) and criticizing my supposed knowledge of the players. Respectfully I would ask that you consider how you phrase your posts going forward. I think your language may put people on the defensive and lead to unnecessary back and forths. You can say same thing about your second sentence. You act like we know nothing about making trades and value of prospects and other teams players. Most poster on this board think I don't value prospects enough. I am more than willing to trade prospects to improve team and get us a championship in Ortiz's last year. I just don't see how Hill helps you in Sept and Oct. Heck he might not be able to help you in July and August. He is a ticking time bomb. If he was a Wade Miley type guy having a career year the conversation would be very different. It's like wanting to pay full price for race car that has a bad motor knock. Sure it's running great right now but you know it's going to need a new motor very soon. Hence you shouldn't pay anywhere near full retail for it, if you should buy it at all.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 7, 2016 16:55:21 GMT -5
Uh, I, for one, would trade Trey Ball for Hill. Fair enough. I would just rather Balls upside over a hand full of starts from Hill.
|
|
|
Rich Hill
Jun 8, 2016 5:57:45 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 8, 2016 5:57:45 GMT -5
If the Sox can't land Mike Trout or Fernandez at some point in the next year, then the Sox should just look to acquire a cheaper option in Hill (and maybe Josh Reddick with Hill) and hoard their great prospects.
Honestly everything else seems like a crap shoot. Tehran? I'm all set.
Maybe I can be talked into a Sonny Gray, but even then I'm not offering more then a Devers.
Hopefully Otani gets posted (and the Sox get him) in the next year and we can forget acquring another top of the rotation arm for the next 3-4 years.
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 8, 2016 10:40:54 GMT -5
As it stands, this years trade deadline is real thin on pitching due to so many teams in the hunt. Only so many teams can be in the hunt in late July. There will be more names bandied about then. Right now, it seems to be Hill, Teheran, and a few others. Teams like the Phillies, Rockies, D-Backs, Royals, ect are heading south.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,258
|
Post by radiohix on Jun 8, 2016 18:56:37 GMT -5
Oh, how surprising!
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 9, 2016 11:11:33 GMT -5
Good, will keep his innings down as well as drop his value. If it was an elbow/shoulder issue, I'd be concerned. With his groin & Reddick's thumb, we should try to them now.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 9, 2016 15:27:31 GMT -5
Groin injuries can linger for a long time. All depends how bad it is.
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 10, 2016 10:00:44 GMT -5
Agreed. But, a long time is very gray. If it's 6 weeks, fine. Then we save his bullets for Aug & Sept. I don't see him throwing 200 innings anyway. So we'll have him in the stretch run, when we'll probably need him most. Keep him around the 130 IP is doable. I just think it's worth the lower level prospect package it will take. Billy may hold onto him to get a few starts in July to try & get a bigger package.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2016 13:50:07 GMT -5
I agree this could be a good thing. It's all about limiting his innings at this point if your a contending team looking at him. Just needs to come back and prove he's healthy before deadline.
|
|
|
Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Jun 11, 2016 7:41:58 GMT -5
There is no way I want the team to spend what Beane will ultimately get for Rich Hill. If we're going to spend "currency" in the form of actual, legitimate prospects that some are mentioning here, then I want someone who has at minimum, this year and next year left on their contract.
Go look at the free agent pitching market next season, it's terrible. The best pitching "prospect" the Sox have above A ball right now is probably Elias - think about that for a minute. Next season, this team is going to be looking at the exact same pitching problems that we have right now.
The right move, if we're talking about legitimate prospects, is to use them to get someone in their 20s with at least two years of control left. If that deal doesn't exist, I'd rather go get guy like Mat Latos who was just DFA'ed by the White Sox or place a call to Mark Beuhrle's agents to see if he'd come back than move a prospect around or equal to Kopech on Rich Hill - or any other impending free agent - for this year.
|
|
|
Post by soxfanatic64 on Jun 13, 2016 9:11:11 GMT -5
We need a solid #2 pitcher not another end of the rotation pitcher like Rich Hill. We have plenty of those guys such as Cupcake Clay, Joe Kelly, Henry Owens, Roenis Elias. I would not give up Kopech or Ball for any rentals. That is just plain old DUMB. Mat Latos and Mark Beuhrle have nothing left in their tanks. If we can't find a #2 pitcher then we should just stand pat!!!
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 13, 2016 9:56:02 GMT -5
We need a solid #2 pitcher not another end of the rotation pitcher like Rich Hill. We have plenty of those guys such as Cupcake Clay, Joe Kelly, Henry Owens, Roenis Elias. I would not give up Kopech or Ball for any rentals. That is just plain old DUMB. Mat Latos and Mark Beuhrle have nothing left in their tanks. If we can't find a #2 pitcher then we should just stand pat!!! Welcome. Keep in mind most contending teams are in similar boats as us (excluding the Mets & maybe the Nats). A legit #2 will cost too much IMO. Sometimes you have to roil the dice with what you have. Some of our trade bait is hurt or non performing. So that would leave us trading 2 or 3 of our top prospects & then you might get a Shelby Miller. I do agree with you for us NOT to sign a Latos or Beuhrle type. As Big Papi mentioned, I would trade those guys for a stud with a few years control.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jun 13, 2016 11:55:15 GMT -5
We need a solid #2 pitcher not another end of the rotation pitcher like Rich Hill. We have plenty of those guys such as Cupcake Clay, Joe Kelly, Henry Owens, Roenis Elias. I would not give up Kopech or Ball for any rentals. That is just plain old DUMB. Mat Latos and Mark Beuhrle have nothing left in their tanks. If we can't find a #2 pitcher then we should just stand pat!!! Hmmm, I'm comparing Rich Hill's stats to Buchholz, Kelly, Owens and Elias and am not seeing many similarities.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 13, 2016 12:31:06 GMT -5
We need a solid #2 pitcher not another end of the rotation pitcher like Rich Hill. We have plenty of those guys such as Cupcake Clay, Joe Kelly, Henry Owens, Roenis Elias. I would not give up Kopech or Ball for any rentals. That is just plain old DUMB. Mat Latos and Mark Beuhrle have nothing left in their tanks. If we can't find a #2 pitcher then we should just stand pat!!! You wouldn't give up Ball for a rental? Why not? He's not exactly a sure fire major leaguer and he certainly doesn't project to be a top of the rotation type starter, and middle of the rotation is kind of doubtful, so why wouldn't you give him up? I wouldn't sweat it regarding Ball, though. I doubt other teams will be demanding him in a deal. At this point, if Ball was part of the payment for a reliable setup man, I'd make that deal.
|
|
|
Rich Hill
Jun 13, 2016 22:14:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 13, 2016 22:14:13 GMT -5
We need a solid #2 pitcher not another end of the rotation pitcher like Rich Hill. We have plenty of those guys such as Cupcake Clay, Joe Kelly, Henry Owens, Roenis Elias. I would not give up Kopech or Ball for any rentals. That is just plain old DUMB. Mat Latos and Mark Beuhrle have nothing left in their tanks. If we can't find a #2 pitcher then we should just stand pat!!! You wouldn't give up Ball for a rental? Why not? He's not exactly a sure fire major leaguer and he certainly doesn't project to be a top of the rotation type starter, and middle of the rotation is kind of doubtful, so why wouldn't you give him up? I wouldn't sweat it regarding Ball, though. I doubt other teams will be demanding him in a deal. At this point, if Ball was part of the payment for a reliable setup man, I'd make that deal. Daniel Hudson is a great name for the Sox to go get. Ball is the exact kind of guy to give up for a player like that.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 13, 2016 22:32:40 GMT -5
You wouldn't give up Ball for a rental? Why not? He's not exactly a sure fire major leaguer and he certainly doesn't project to be a top of the rotation type starter, and middle of the rotation is kind of doubtful, so why wouldn't you give him up? I wouldn't sweat it regarding Ball, though. I doubt other teams will be demanding him in a deal. At this point, if Ball was part of the payment for a reliable setup man, I'd make that deal. Daniel Hudson is a great name for the Sox to go get. Ball is the exact kind of guy to give up for a player like that. If Arizona "settled" for Ball, I'd jump on that trade if I were the Sox. I think that if the Sox are to get a badly needed reliever, they'd probably have to surrender somebody like Pat Light for the reliever, or perhaps Kyle Martin, or Chandler Shepherd. I guess the question is do you believe in Pat Light? I personally think he'll never really find the strike zone in the majors, but if you're wrong, you wind up looking really bad. I think I'd make that deal, but it could really backfire. I have very little confidence Ball would amount to much more than a back end starter. If Arizona considered that a good get, sure, but I think they'll get better offers than Ball, but the Sox should definitely try to get their hands on Hudson. They really could use him.
|
|
|
Rich Hill
Jun 14, 2016 5:01:59 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 14, 2016 5:01:59 GMT -5
Daniel Hudson is a great name for the Sox to go get. Ball is the exact kind of guy to give up for a player like that. If Arizona "settled" for Ball, I'd jump on that trade if I were the Sox. I think that if the Sox are to get a badly needed reliever, they'd probably have to surrender somebody like Pat Light for the reliever, or perhaps Kyle Martin, or Chandler Shepherd. I guess the question is do you believe in Pat Light? I personally think he'll never really find the strike zone in the majors, but if you're wrong, you wind up looking really bad. I think I'd make that deal, but it could really backfire. I have very little confidence Ball would amount to much more than a back end starter. If Arizona considered that a good get, sure, but I think they'll get better offers than Ball, but the Sox should definitely try to get their hands on Hudson. They really could use him. I think it will be a buyer's market for relievers. There will be a ton of names to get for a ton of teams. Between Hudson, Jake MgGee, Andrew Miller, Chapman, Arodys Vizcaino, Sean Doolittle, Ryan Madson, Abad of the Twins and maybe a lot of others I'm not even mentioning and thinking about. They definitely do need one more arm for the bullpen with the loss of Carson Smith. I think this is a even bigger need than the rotation. Elias could give the Sox some quality I think from the number 5 spot in the rotation and could be decent. So that being said, go get a bullpen arm if it's easier to acquire without giving up as much for a starter.
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 14, 2016 8:03:05 GMT -5
Feels as if the consensus is the reliever market is much more wide open. If we can strengthen the BP, that will, in a way, make the rotation better with more fires put out, ect. Obviously Layne will be gone.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 14, 2016 12:45:16 GMT -5
If Arizona "settled" for Ball, I'd jump on that trade if I were the Sox. I think that if the Sox are to get a badly needed reliever, they'd probably have to surrender somebody like Pat Light for the reliever, or perhaps Kyle Martin, or Chandler Shepherd. I guess the question is do you believe in Pat Light? I personally think he'll never really find the strike zone in the majors, but if you're wrong, you wind up looking really bad. I think I'd make that deal, but it could really backfire. I have very little confidence Ball would amount to much more than a back end starter. If Arizona considered that a good get, sure, but I think they'll get better offers than Ball, but the Sox should definitely try to get their hands on Hudson. They really could use him. I think it will be a buyer's market for relievers. There will be a ton of names to get for a ton of teams. Between Hudson, Jake MgGee, Andrew Miller, Chapman, Arodys Vizcaino, Sean Doolittle, Ryan Madson, Abad of the Twins and maybe a lot of others I'm not even mentioning and thinking about. They definitely do need one more arm for the bullpen with the loss of Carson Smith. I think this is a even bigger need than the rotation. Elias could give the Sox some quality I think from the number 5 spot in the rotation and could be decent. So that being said, go get a bullpen arm if it's easier to acquire without giving up as much for a starter. I concur. Normally I like having a LOOGY, but at this point Tommy Layne doesn't make much sense on this roster. The Sox need somebody who can pitch multiple innings instead, and if the Sox got into the post-season, Elias, who could be the #5 starter the rest of the way potentially, could become the LOOGY if need be (and also pitch multiple innings which Layne can't do). They definitely need to upgrade that roster spot and like you said, relievers are more wide open (or actually Sox fan in NC) to get and should cost far less.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Jun 14, 2016 13:43:36 GMT -5
Can he go a full year?...We're at quarter pole of the season....he'll be on pace for 172 IP plus playoffs. We all know he's approaching his IP high water mark NOW since like 2007. My question too. There probably isn't a ton of options out there given the thin FA class so I think Hill may cost more than what we are talking about. Taking on Billy Butlers contract could lessen any package as well. I heard an announcer on MLB radio say if Hill keeps pitching well he could be a QO candidate given the lack of pitching. That's a big if though. I just thought of this and was hoping I was the first. It's an interesting thought in my eyes, what about Hill and Butler for nothing material back? If we made the trade half way through the season and DFA'd Butler, it would be like signing Hill for a $20M contract for half a year, which seems way too high, but doesn't require giving up talent. Maybe, stealing from Jmei's thread, they throw in Valencia?
|
|
|
Rich Hill
Jun 19, 2016 9:52:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 19, 2016 9:52:38 GMT -5
Red Sox are reportedly looking at Hill and Sonny Gray.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jun 19, 2016 9:54:14 GMT -5
Red Sox are reportedly looking at Hill and Sonny Gray. Who is reporting this?
|
|
|
Rich Hill
Jun 19, 2016 10:05:46 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 19, 2016 10:05:46 GMT -5
Pepén.
|
|
|