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Post by ryantoworkman on Jul 1, 2016 18:00:09 GMT -5
I've bumped this thread on the news, from Jim Duquette on MLB Radio, Hill is atop the Sox wish list according to multiple front office types with other teams. He was referencing other teams needing pitching, and mentioned that he believes Teheran will not be dealt and that leaves Hill as best arm available. He was saying the Tigers would find it difficult to obtain Hill in a bidding war with the Red Sox.
Now the question becomes, is it Hill alone, or is Reddick, or a reliever going to be included? Beane is trying to extend Reddick now. If he cant, he'll likely be dealt somewhere.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 1, 2016 23:51:49 GMT -5
I've bumped this thread on the news, from Jim Duquette on MLB Radio, Hill is atop the Sox wish list according to multiple front office types with other teams. He was referencing other teams needing pitching, and mentioned that he believes Teheran will not be dealt and that leaves Hill as best arm available. He was saying the Tigers would find it difficult to obtain Hill in a bidding war with the Red Sox. Now the question becomes, is it Hill alone, or is Reddick, or a reliever going to be included? Beane is trying to extend Reddick now. If he cant, he'll likely be dealt somewhere. I hope Duquette is correct. Given their circumstances Hill makes the most sense. I just wonder what they'd have to give up. They'll have enough competition that it will drive the price up despite Hill being a rental. Either way he'd cost less than whoever else they'd get, I would think. If Dombrowski can somehow hang onto the Big 4 and Kopech and even Travis who'll they'll need soon, and still get Hill, I think he'll have done a great job. Maybe Owens can pull himself together for a month to make himself more marketable for a deal like this (You can tell that I think Owens will always have major problems throwing strikes).
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jul 3, 2016 5:51:20 GMT -5
I don't think any other bidder could beat an Ockimey/Dubon + Raudes offer for half a season of an old pitcher with workload/health questions simply because these guys would be top 5s in the O's, Royals, Tigers systems.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 3, 2016 10:17:50 GMT -5
I don't think any other bidder could beat an Ockimey/Dubon + Raudes offer for half a season of an old pitcher with workload/health questions simply because these guys would be top 5s in the O's, Royals, Tigers systems. Yea because that's a crazy offer for Rich Hill.
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Post by jdb on Jul 3, 2016 12:01:12 GMT -5
It's tough to put an estimate on Hills value. I think we may be shocked since he could be the best starter on the market.
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Post by jdb on Jul 8, 2016 9:08:38 GMT -5
Another great outing yesterday for Hill. With no top tier guys likely to be on the market don't see anyway Beane lets him go cheap. He's getting a prospect at least on par with a compensation pick unless Hill gets injured.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 8, 2016 9:15:36 GMT -5
Beane is also prone to falling in love with "random" prospects.
He could be offered a top 50 prospect for Hill and decide he like Luis Alejandro Basabe more than them. At the time he traded Donaldson, there's no way the best prospect (by rankings standards) available for him was Barretto.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Jul 8, 2016 10:01:44 GMT -5
Beane is also prone to falling in love with "random" prospects. He could be offered a top 50 prospect for Hill and decide he like Luis Alejandro Basabe more than them. At the time he traded Donaldson, there's no way the best prospect (by rankings standards) available for him was Barretto. Beane has to obtain higher value in all his deals. It's the only way he can compete. For that reason I suspect Buchholz could be a part of any Hill deal. Beane would look to rehabilitate Buchholz in the Mauseleum and gain greater value in the offseason, dangling a potential 2/3 for a $13.5M cost would be attractive this offseason. There would no doubt be prospect talent in any deal, but I can see him high on a reclamation project also.
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nomar
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Rich Hill
Jul 8, 2016 10:17:22 GMT -5
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Post by nomar on Jul 8, 2016 10:17:22 GMT -5
Beane is also prone to falling in love with "random" prospects. He could be offered a top 50 prospect for Hill and decide he like Luis Alejandro Basabe more than them. At the time he traded Donaldson, there's no way the best prospect (by rankings standards) available for him was Barretto. Beane has to obtain higher value in all his deals. It's the only way he can compete. For that reason I suspect Buchholz could be a part of any Hill deal. Beane would look to rehabilitate Buchholz in the Mauseleum and gain greater value in the offseason, dangling a potential 2/3 for a $13.5M cost would be attractive this offseason. There would no doubt be prospect talent in any deal, but I can see him high on a reclamation project also. That would be interesting. I'd let him try, because given that we want to contend, I think we're done risking betting on Buchholz going forward.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Jul 8, 2016 10:38:09 GMT -5
Beane has to obtain higher value in all his deals. It's the only way he can compete. For that reason I suspect Buchholz could be a part of any Hill deal. Beane would look to rehabilitate Buchholz in the Mauseleum and gain greater value in the offseason, dangling a potential 2/3 for a $13.5M cost would be attractive this offseason. There would no doubt be prospect talent in any deal, but I can see him high on a reclamation project also. That would be interesting. I'd let him try, because given that we want to contend, I think we're done risking betting on Buchholz going forward. Agreed. I think DDo, and Farrell have reached the point of no return with Clay. I've thought for a few years now his pitching style would sink him one day, and that day seems to have arrived. I played a few thousand games during my days. I always hated playing behind a nibble like Buchholz. The slowdown of his approach with men on base puts fielder's to sleep, so by the time they bat, the energy level is gone. While he was good, he limited the times he dealt with men on base. Now that he sucks, the frequent 20 minute half innings kill any chance of mounting a comeback. It's time to say to Clay, thank you for 2011, and 2013, but it's time for you to go!
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Post by ryantoworkman on Jul 8, 2016 23:43:56 GMT -5
Once again tonight, an MLB Radio host (Eric Byrnes, a former A) declared Rich Hill to the Red Sox a fait acompli. My only question now is, are they going to grab another starter in addition to Hill. I guess the answer to that rests in how well ERod throws in his next 2 starts.
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Post by jdb on Jul 9, 2016 10:08:02 GMT -5
At what cost? Would Chavis get it done? I think they get close to compensation pick value.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Jul 9, 2016 14:02:31 GMT -5
At what cost? Would Chavis get it done? I think they get close to compensation pick value. I've been thinking it will be Buchholz, a guy in the Chavis range, plus a flier. It may get bid up to Kopech, and I'd have to think long and hard on that return. Beane will try to extract some value from Buchholz, then flip him for more kids; and if he cant, no loss as he still has the kids.
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Post by cto94 on Jul 9, 2016 14:17:48 GMT -5
At what cost? Would Chavis get it done? I think they get close to compensation pick value. I've been thinking it will be Buchholz, a guy in the Chavis range, plus a flier. It may get bid up to Kopech, and I'd have to think long and hard on that return. Beane will try to extract some value from Buchholz, then flip him for more kids; and if he cant, no loss as he still has the kids. I don't think we would give up Kopech for him honestly- he's got the type of arm that you really don't see very often, and giving up that kind of upside for a half season of a 37 year old dude who's already made one DL trip this year doesn't make sense to me. I could see the Buchholz route, and maybe someone like Henry Owens as a guy who's halfway between a throw in and a legitimate piece- another guy whose trade value could be inflated by the coliseum, but cheaper than Buchholz and with more control. I would think Owens and someone like Chavis would just about get it done, maybe with an additional lottery ticket thrown in. I'd do my best to keep Kopech though- aside from Espinoza, he seems to be the one guy in the system with the potential to really be a top of the rotation arm.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 10, 2016 7:14:36 GMT -5
If they trade Kopech for Hill I will flip a lid. Talk about another possible Bagwell trade!
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Post by gator39 on Jul 10, 2016 12:35:40 GMT -5
I would not trade Kopech for Hill. I've been thinking something like Owens & Lakins.
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Post by jamarco on Jul 10, 2016 13:18:08 GMT -5
It would be dumb to sell low on Owens right now. Substitute Doubon for Owens or something.
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Post by malynn19 on Jul 10, 2016 13:20:09 GMT -5
I would not trade Owens straight up for Hill, he's freaking 36 yrs old with an injury history.
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Post by jamarco on Jul 10, 2016 13:32:53 GMT -5
Yeah these Owens/Kopech for Hill suggestions are insane.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 10, 2016 20:55:19 GMT -5
You're going to have to give up something of value for Hill. Other teams are bidding for him, too and he's the best option by far.
The question is what to give up for a rental where it doesn't kill you.
I would not give up any of the big 4, nor would I give up Kopech. That would be dumb.
Henry Owens is hardly a slam dunk to pitch in the majors. He has enough talent to be wanted by another team, but the fact of the matter is it is highly questionable whether he'll ever get his control or command in the majors. And his fastball is quite pedestrian.
I'm not sold on Owens or Johnson or Elias. If Beane wants any of those three I'd include them in a deal.
If Beane likes (still) a true three outcomes type of guy I'd be surprised if he isn't interested in Josh Ockimey. I don't like the idea of surrendering Ockimey, but if you keep Devers, Moncada, and you think Travis is the 1b of the future Ockimey does become expendable.
Maybe something like Owens and Ockimey for Hill would be enough to get the deal done. Of perhaps Dubon gets substituted for Ockimey and a guy like Stankiewicz, Ball, or Lakins gets added to the deal.
You're not going to get Rich Hill for nothing. If Hill stays healthy enough (big if) - that gives the Red Sox four strong starting pitchers as opposed to three good ones and two marginal ones (at best).
The key is to get Hill without giving up too much that hurts the team in the future.
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Rich Hill
Jul 10, 2016 21:37:27 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 10, 2016 21:37:27 GMT -5
Yeah between the last Basabe, Marco Hernandez, Ockimey, Trey Ball, Henry Owens, Lankins, Dubon, and others there has to be enough there in just depth alone to get a deal done.
Maybe a 4-1 package with 4 guys like these get it done.
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Post by brendan98 on Jul 13, 2016 13:59:38 GMT -5
I saw a really good assessment of the Rich Hill as it pertains to the trade market for starting pitching, he is the only ”rental” available that is viewed as a frontline starter, all the other “rentals” at this time might help you win some games for the rest of the season, but wouldn’t really upgrade a postseason rotation.
I think because of this, Hill is the most attractive pitcher available and would really help fill the Red Sox biggest need, but being the only TOR type starter available as a rental, how much does this drive up his cost? I can give you an idea of what I think is fair trade value for Hill at this time, it may differ from other Red Sox fans a little bit, but at the end of the day I think most of us would be ok (though maybe not thrilled) if the Sox could acquire Hill for a prospect or two from our system that are not in our current top 7 and not named Jason Groome. Taking the top 2 guys that fill that criteria, that would be Chavis and Lakins, I personally feel like that would hurt a little bit, but I think that I’d be in favor of a deal where the Sox would give up similar type prospects. So does that feel like the level of prospects that the A’s will end up getting for Hill? I think it feels light, and that they will end up with a Top 100 prospect by the time they trade him. I’d love to know what others see as both Hill’s actual value, and also what he will likely ultimately fetch at the deadline, and whether he is worth what he might end up costing?
I for one, would love to see the Sox acquire Hill (as long as it doesn’t cost any of our top 6 or 7 prospects), I think he would dramatically improve the Sox chances of winning it all this year, and I also believe that DD is going to do something to add a big boost to the rotation and if acquiring Hill means that he doesn’t deal Moncada, Benintendi, Espinoza, etc… for a similar level pitcher who can be controlled, than I’d be relieved.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jul 13, 2016 15:40:20 GMT -5
I saw a really good assessment of the Rich Hill as it pertains to the trade market for starting pitching, he is the only ”rental” available that is viewed as a frontline starter, all the other “rentals” at this time might help you win some games for the rest of the season, but wouldn’t really upgrade a postseason rotation. I think because of this, Hill is the most attractive pitcher available and would really help fill the Red Sox biggest need, but being the only TOR type starter available as a rental, how much does this drive up his cost? I can give you an idea of what I think is fair trade value for Hill at this time, it may differ from other Red Sox fans a little bit, but at the end of the day I think most of us would be ok (though maybe not thrilled) if the Sox could acquire Hill for a prospect or two from our system that are not in our current top 7 and not named Jason Groome. Taking the top 2 guys that fill that criteria, that would be Chavis and Lakins, I personally feel like that would hurt a little bit, but I think that I’d be in favor of a deal where the Sox would give up similar type prospects. So does that feel like the level of prospects that the A’s will end up getting for Hill? I think it feels light, and that they will end up with a Top 100 prospect by the time they trade him. I’d love to know what others see as both Hill’s actual value, and also what he will likely ultimately fetch at the deadline, and whether he is worth what he might end up costing? I for one, would love to see the Sox acquire Hill (as long as it doesn’t cost any of our top 6 or 7 prospects), I think he would dramatically improve the Sox chances of winning it all this year, and I also believe that DD is going to do something to add a big boost to the rotation and if acquiring Hill means that he doesn’t deal Moncada, Benintendi, Espinoza, etc… for a similar level pitcher who can be controlled, than I’d be relieved. I dunno. Is there that much of a gap from Hill, to say, Hellickson? I'd take whichever one costs the least. I'd move Chavis/Lakins as well.
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Post by brendan98 on Jul 13, 2016 20:47:54 GMT -5
I saw a really good assessment of the Rich Hill as it pertains to the trade market for starting pitching, he is the only ”rental” available that is viewed as a frontline starter, all the other “rentals” at this time might help you win some games for the rest of the season, but wouldn’t really upgrade a postseason rotation. I think because of this, Hill is the most attractive pitcher available and would really help fill the Red Sox biggest need, but being the only TOR type starter available as a rental, how much does this drive up his cost? I can give you an idea of what I think is fair trade value for Hill at this time, it may differ from other Red Sox fans a little bit, but at the end of the day I think most of us would be ok (though maybe not thrilled) if the Sox could acquire Hill for a prospect or two from our system that are not in our current top 7 and not named Jason Groome. Taking the top 2 guys that fill that criteria, that would be Chavis and Lakins, I personally feel like that would hurt a little bit, but I think that I’d be in favor of a deal where the Sox would give up similar type prospects. So does that feel like the level of prospects that the A’s will end up getting for Hill? I think it feels light, and that they will end up with a Top 100 prospect by the time they trade him. I’d love to know what others see as both Hill’s actual value, and also what he will likely ultimately fetch at the deadline, and whether he is worth what he might end up costing? I for one, would love to see the Sox acquire Hill (as long as it doesn’t cost any of our top 6 or 7 prospects), I think he would dramatically improve the Sox chances of winning it all this year, and I also believe that DD is going to do something to add a big boost to the rotation and if acquiring Hill means that he doesn’t deal Moncada, Benintendi, Espinoza, etc… for a similar level pitcher who can be controlled, than I’d be relieved. I dunno. Is there that much of a gap from Hill, to say, Hellickson? I'd take whichever one costs the least. I'd move Chavis/Lakins as well. You do realize that if Hill had enough innings to qualify he'd lead the AL in ERA by a large margin, correct?
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Post by jmei on Jul 14, 2016 11:19:37 GMT -5
Henry Owens (and maybe a low-minors lottery ticket or two) for Rich Hill.
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