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How do you improve the Red Sox
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Post by jodyreidnichols on May 22, 2016 17:12:13 GMT -5
It seems obvious to me that the Sox have championship level Offense, Team Defense and bullpen as long as Carson Smith is in the mix. Hembree has been a revalation. That leaves the all important Starting Rotation as the part of the team that gets my scrutiny. Now I'm in the belief that it's good enough to get us to the dance but not nearly as confident once we are there for it to get the job done.
I'm confident that the Starting Rotation as a whole will improve and that is with the expectation that some pitchers will regress. I've heard several pestimistic viewpoints regarding Wright regressing, to which I'd respond, "yes, so what's you point?". His ERA could rise by close to 2 runs per start the rest of the way and the team likely will not suffer any consequences. Victor Martinez, among others, suggested before last season that Porcello could be a CY-Young candidate. Now I'm offering that not because I'm going to tell you he will or wont' win one or even contend for one, the point is that outsiders who know the game believe he should be in the very least a good pitcher. It's obvious, to me at least, that last year was an abberation, he thought he had to be someone he was not. Often players take a year to adapt to new surroundings and we are seeing that now with him. He has the upside of a #2 and I think going forward for the next few years the basement of a #3. E-Rod is a keystone in the arch of the starting rotation. His injury hopefully become a blessing in disguise by keeping his innings pitched down so come September and hopefully more he'd be available to pitch instead of shutting it down due to capping his innings pitched. Kelly in some ways reminds my of Buchholz, filthy stuff but the problem lies in his head. There is hope between the end of last season and his first starting back from an injury yesterday that's he's turning the corner and figuring it out but the jury is still out on him. Price is an ace what else is there to say other than the concerns about pitching in cold weather. I believe that top talent eventually finds a way. Clemens and Bonds both struggled in the post season until they figured it out later in their career and expect that David will eventually too. I don't like the idea of having 2 head cases in the rotation and hope that the Sox before the trading deadline move Clay for whatever it is they can get. I fully believe that Swihart is being showcased and he could be the base of a trade for a number 2 type pitcher. The only other position that makes sense to upgrade could be LF. I'd move Holt (In fact I wanted to trade him before this season) because (I thought his trade value was at it's peak) and I think we have Holt 2.0 in Rutledge. What could Swihart and Holt get you? Other prospects that could be moved include Marrero, Castillo and Hernandez.
Who are possible targets to acquire?
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Post by dnfl333 on May 22, 2016 18:11:29 GMT -5
Pitching pitching and more pitching.
Only Dombrowski knows who is available and at what cost.
There are enough "fringe" prospects in the system to find upgrades or help for the Pen and at least a handful of top tier prospects to obtain a legit #2 SP..
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Post by slam761 on May 22, 2016 18:19:56 GMT -5
Get Rich Hill back.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 22, 2016 18:25:36 GMT -5
Buy low on Sonny Gray (like anyone out of the Top 4), trade everyone in the farm but Keith Couch for Mike Trout, get Pablo to lose weight and win the WS every year for the next decade.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 22, 2016 18:39:28 GMT -5
You'd have to give up so much to get Trout that it would create more holes than it would be worth. If we could entice the Angels on Couch for Trout straight up, I'd consider that.
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Post by sibbysisti on May 22, 2016 18:54:49 GMT -5
You improve the Red Sox by letting them be themselves. That seems simplistic, but If you don't monkey with the team, except for some minor tweaks, you improve by letting the Killer Bs do their thing on a regular basis, sticking with the younger players as they gain experience, and giving the manager and his staff room to manage.
This team has the right attitude, thanks to a good working relationship with the coaches. The kids are getting better and better, making an impact and gaining confidence.
Dombrowski has put together a pennant contending pitching staff to complement a core of home grown talent.
Not much to do unless there are injuries. My biggest concern is Carson Smith's elbow. But we have to wait and see what the diagnosis is, and if rest and non surgical solutions will solve the problem.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 22, 2016 18:58:51 GMT -5
You'd have to give up so much to get Trout that it would create more holes than it would be worth. If we could entice the Angels on Couch for Trout straight up, I'd consider that.
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Post by soxcentral on May 22, 2016 19:38:11 GMT -5
It seems pretty clear there are 3 areas the team, barring injury, could upgrade right now: LF, power relief depth and starting pitching. And I think it is highly likely that with another strong month this team will be 'all in' to finish off Papi's career with another title, upgrading wherever is necessary. Left field I think is where we'll need help. Swihart looks passable out there but it seems kind of silly to move him off C so soon. Holt is better in the super-utility role, Young is a part-time player, Castillo seems to not be what the team wants and Beni is a long-shot. A LHH platoon bat to go with Young is what I'd envision. If Carson Smith doesn't return healthy and Koji starts to lose a step I can see us looking to improve in the bullpen too. Although Hembree and Ross can perhaps deepen that set up core without having to overpay for an arm at the deadline. The rotation is suprisingly the one area of the three I think we'll be OK with. Not sure who will end up being our top performers but I'm confident at least 4 of the Price/Wright/Porcello/Kelly/ERod/Buch combination will give them plenty of quality innings the rest of the way. Perhaps Elias has turned a corner in AAA too. Of course, this applies to May 22 only
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 22, 2016 19:38:23 GMT -5
You improve the Red Sox by letting them be themselves. That seems simplistic, but If you don't monkey with the team, except for some minor tweaks, you improve by letting the Killer Bs do their thing on a regular basis, sticking with the younger players as they gain experience, and giving the manager and his staff room to manage. This team has the right attitude, thanks to a good working relationship with the coaches. The kids are getting better and better, making an impact and gaining confidence. Dombrowski has put together a pennant contending pitching staff to complement a core of home grown talent. Not much to do unless there are injuries. My biggest concern is Carson Smith's elbow. But we have to wait and see what the diagnosis is, and if rest and non surgical solutions will solve the problem. That's kind of where I'm at. The Red Sox have three solid starters right now. Price will be Price when all is said and done and is beginning to be himself. That means for the playoffs the Sox need just one more solid starter. That means that somebody out of Kelly, Buchholz, and E-Rod needs to step forward. My hope is that E-Rod gets healthy enough and steps forward. He'd be a good candidate for somebody who could pitch well in October. While other pitchers are tiring in October he should be pretty fresh. The big question is how healthy will he really be? If E-Rod is the answer or Buchholz truly gets his act together and stays healthy that could allow the Sox to help solve a bullpen issue. If Carson Smith isn't healthy that puts a lot of pressure on Uehara and Tazawa. Barnes and Hembree are doing good jobs as is Ross, although Farrell for whatever reason seems reluctant to let him "pitch with responsibility". If E-Rod or Buchholz can nail down a rotation spot that could free Kelly to pitch in relief which could be a huge factor in the post-season. Of course we can't discount that Kelly could be the answer for the #2 slot, although I really won't believe it until I see it. I know he's pitched well since August, but I'd like to see if he can command his pitches more consistently. The Sox have the rest of May, June, and all of July to make this assessment, because the truth of the matter is that there isn't that much worthwhile out there in the trade market. There's Rich Hill, Teheran, maybe Sonny Gray, and maybe a San Diego starter, perhaps James Shields or Pomeranz. There's not a lot of sure things there, except for Gray, you'd think, and he's been struggling. The Sox will have two and half months to determine if it's better holding onto their chips, and it might just be. We'll have to see. I think E-Rod is the key to this. LF and bullpen depth are the remaining issues. I think the Sox can get away with a platoon of Holt/Young or Swihart/Young or maybe hope that Benintendi bashes his way to Boston. I know Holt has struggled, but he's fallen off because of his medical situation. Before that contributed to his slump he was right where he normally is. I wouldn't give up much to temporarily improve LF. And like I said, if E-Rod comes back Kelly could help out the pen in Smith's absence come October. I just don't see the need to give up a lot for such little guarantee of improvement from the outside. I think Rich Hill, if anybody, makes the most sense, but I could see the Sox having to give up too much to get him, and given the fact that he hasn't pitched 100 innings in the past many years, he's no sure thing either, although I think he'd be as effective as anybody they could get. The only other thing here that they would need is if somebody got seriously injured. The Sox key 7 on offense or their top 3 starters or closer would be really hard to replace if they had to. Hope it doesn't come down to that.
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Post by bosox81 on May 22, 2016 20:30:27 GMT -5
I hope they don't make a move for the sake of making a move, because that's what I remember from trade deadline moves. In '07 it was Gagne and in '13 it was Peavy. I guess you could argue Peavy had that one good start, but it's debatable at best.
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Post by telson13 on May 22, 2016 21:08:20 GMT -5
Buy low on Sonny Gray (like anyone out of the Top 4), trade everyone in the farm but Keith Couch for Mike Trout, get Pablo to lose weight and win the WS every year for the next decade. Trout and Gray would both be gone in 5 years, at which point there would be pretty much no young talent to speak of. Also, with Trout in the mix, how are you going to extend the Killers B ver. 2.0? And what happens if Price opts out? Trading for Gray and/or Trout are probably the two worst moves for this franchise. The cost would far outweigh the return. This team can do *nothing* but sign their own guys, and they might win the next 10 (though the Cubs might have something to say about it...this may be NYY-Atl 1990s redux). Panda losing weight is pretty much irrelevant: he's not getting his job back from Shaw regardless.
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Post by telson13 on May 22, 2016 21:13:35 GMT -5
It seems pretty clear there are 3 areas the team, barring injury, could upgrade right now: LF, power relief depth and starting pitching. And I think it is highly likely that with another strong month this team will be 'all in' to finish off Papi's career with another title, upgrading wherever is necessary. Left field I think is where we'll need help. Swihart looks passable out there but it seems kind of silly to move him off C so soon. Holt is better in the super-utility role, Young is a part-time player, Castillo seems to not be what the team wants and Beni is a long-shot. A LHH platoon bat to go with Young is what I'd envision. If Carson Smith doesn't return healthy and Koji starts to lose a step I can see us looking to improve in the bullpen too. Although Hembree and Ross can perhaps deepen that set up core without having to overpay for an arm at the deadline. The rotation is suprisingly the one area of the three I think we'll be OK with. Not sure who will end up being our top performers but I'm confident at least 4 of the Price/Wright/Porcello/Kelly/ERod/Buch combination will give them plenty of quality innings the rest of the way. Perhaps Elias has turned a corner in AAA too. Of course, this applies to May 22 only Barnes is 4th in the AL in strand rate, third in FB velocity. I'm not sure that between him, Hembree, and Ross, they need to tinker with the bullpen much. Light might make himself an option soon, too. A regular LF (or better, an outstanding LH platoon bat who can play defense) would be a real nice get.
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Post by bosox81 on May 22, 2016 21:16:09 GMT -5
It seems pretty clear there are 3 areas the team, barring injury, could upgrade right now: LF, power relief depth and starting pitching. And I think it is highly likely that with another strong month this team will be 'all in' to finish off Papi's career with another title, upgrading wherever is necessary. Left field I think is where we'll need help. Swihart looks passable out there but it seems kind of silly to move him off C so soon. Holt is better in the super-utility role, Young is a part-time player, Castillo seems to not be what the team wants and Beni is a long-shot. A LHH platoon bat to go with Young is what I'd envision. If Carson Smith doesn't return healthy and Koji starts to lose a step I can see us looking to improve in the bullpen too. Although Hembree and Ross can perhaps deepen that set up core without having to overpay for an arm at the deadline. The rotation is suprisingly the one area of the three I think we'll be OK with. Not sure who will end up being our top performers but I'm confident at least 4 of the Price/Wright/Porcello/Kelly/ERod/Buch combination will give them plenty of quality innings the rest of the way. Perhaps Elias has turned a corner in AAA too. Of course, this applies to May 22 only Barnes is 4th in the AL in strand rate, third in FB velocity. I'm not sure that between him, Hembree, and Ross, they need to tinker with the bullpen much. Light might make himself an option soon, too. A regular LF (or better, an outstanding LH platoon bat who can play defense) would be a real nice get. Cargo? Not having a good season. He kills righties, can't hit lefties. Perfect to platoon with Young. The cost to get him, though, would probably not be something I'd be willing to pay.
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Post by telson13 on May 22, 2016 21:21:22 GMT -5
Barnes is 4th in the AL in strand rate, third in FB velocity. I'm not sure that between him, Hembree, and Ross, they need to tinker with the bullpen much. Light might make himself an option soon, too. A regular LF (or better, an outstanding LH platoon bat who can play defense) would be a real nice get. Cargo? Not having a good season. He kills righties, can't hit lefties. Perfect to platoon with Young. The cost to get him, though, would probably not be something I'd be willing to pay. Yeah, this was in another thread. If they could get him strictly as a salary dump, I'd say yes. He's just average outside of Coors, but I think Fenway would be good for him, and moving to a small LF would really boost his defensive value, because his knees are shot but he has a great arm. I see him as basically a LH Young with maybe some upside, being shy of his 31st birthday. Let Chili convince him to go with pitches off the wall, and he might be a solid-hitting pickup.
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Post by larrycook on May 22, 2016 21:21:28 GMT -5
Three things to put is over the top.
1 - a #2 starting pitcher.
2 - two reliable relievers. One lefty and one righty.
3 - Braun for left field.
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Post by scottysmalls on May 22, 2016 21:36:14 GMT -5
Talking about possible left field fits I think Reddick would be great. As an added bonus it would make the lineup even more homegrown.
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 22, 2016 22:11:22 GMT -5
He's on the disabled list with a fractured thumb.
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Post by telluricrook on May 22, 2016 23:17:44 GMT -5
I think Gray is on the disabled list as well.
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Post by telluricrook on May 22, 2016 23:20:50 GMT -5
You'd have to give up so much to get Trout that it would create more holes than it would be worth. If we could entice the Angels on Couch for Trout straight up, I'd consider that. Really.. why dont you want to get rid of couch? Do you think he has a chance to be a good major leaguer?
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Post by Don Caballero on May 23, 2016 0:02:58 GMT -5
Trout and Gray would both be gone in 5 years, at which point there would be pretty much no young talent to speak of. Also, with Trout in the mix, how are you going to extend the Killers B ver. 2.0? And what happens if Price opts out? Trading for Gray and/or Trout are probably the two worst moves for this franchise. The cost would far outweigh the return. This team can do *nothing* but sign their own guys, and they might win the next 10 (though the Cubs might have something to say about it...this may be NYY-Atl 1990s redux). Panda losing weight is pretty much irrelevant: he's not getting his job back from Shaw regardless. While I partially agree that logically it could set back the franchise after 5 or so years, those would be some awesome 5 years. Can you imagine an OF with Trout, Bradley and Betts? That's just goofy. And if they buy low on Gray and he turns out to be as good as he was before this year, the rotation would be great as well. I know that's never happening, but it's fun just entertaining it because it would easily be one of the best teams of all time. Really.. why dont you want to get rid of couch? Do you think he has a chance to be a good major leaguer? Couch is my long time binky on the system and the fact that he has been as agonizingly close to a cup of coffee in the MLB for as long as he has without ever getting one makes my completely irrational expectations even more amped up. I do think he could be a somewhat decent reliever though.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
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Post by ericmvan on May 23, 2016 1:04:51 GMT -5
Talking about possible left field fits I think Reddick would be great. As an added bonus it would make the lineup even more homegrown. He's on the disabled list with a fractured thumb. He's due back at the end of June, give or take a week. You trade for him in mid-July. He's far and away the best fit for a LF upgrade. Jay Bruce is a possibility -- he would be essentially free, and he can still hit, but there's a serious question as to whether he could field the position. Adding a SP makes no sense at the present time. Let's say the A's put Gray on the block. Value of Gray to every other contender desperate for starting pitching:
Sonny Gray - value of their fifth starter. Value of Gray to Red Sox, some of whose fanboys dream of challenging the Cubs as an uberteam:
Sonny Gray - value of second best of Kelly, Rodriguez, and Buchholz.Given how much more valuable Gray is to everyone else, how could you possibly outbid other teams for him? How could it possibly be sane to want to? Furthermore, there's probably a 60/40 chance that Buchholz turns back into himself, in which case it's: Sonny Gray - value of whoever is better, Kelly or E-Rod. It's not even clear that that's positive. We can start talking about trading for a pitcher when two of the following three things have happened: -- E-Rod has suffered a physical setback that makes his 2016 contribution questionable -- Buchholz has failed to break out after another 3 or more starts -- Kelly has turned back into a disappointing mediocrity over a decent stretch of starts, at least a handful Until at least one of things has happened, talking about acquiring another starter seems ... crazy.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on May 23, 2016 1:16:39 GMT -5
Three things to put is over the top. 1 - a #2 starting pitcher. 2 - two reliable relievers. One lefty and one righty. 3 - Braun for left field. I'm a big fan of the Braun idea for the right price. What a wicked friggen powerful lineup that would be.
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Post by telson13 on May 23, 2016 1:45:25 GMT -5
Talking about possible left field fits I think Reddick would be great. As an added bonus it would make the lineup even more homegrown. He's on the disabled list with a fractured thumb. He's due back at the end of June, give or take a week. You trade for him in mid-July. He's far and away the best fit for a LF upgrade. Jay Bruce is a possibility -- he would be essentially free, and he can still hit, but there's a serious question as to whether he could field the position. Adding a SP makes no sense at the present time. Let's say the A's put Gray on the block. Value of Gray to every other contender desperate for starting pitching:
Sonny Gray - value of their fifth starter. Value of Gray to Red Sox, some of whose fanboys dream of challenging the Cubs as an uberteam:
Sonny Gray - value of second best of Kelly, Rodriguez, and Buchholz.Given how much more valuable Gray is to everyone else, how could you possibly outbid other teams for him? How could it possibly be sane to want to? Furthermore, there's probably a 60/40 chance that Buchholz turns back into himself, in which case it's: Sonny Gray - value of whoever is better, Kelly or E-Rod. It's not even clear that that's positive. We can start talking about trading for a pitcher when two of the following three things have happened: -- E-Rod has suffered a physical setback that makes his 2016 contribution questionable -- Buchholz has failed to break out after another 3 or more starts -- Kelly has turned back into a disappointing mediocrity over a decent stretch of starts, at least a handful Until at least one of things has happened, talking about acquiring another starter seems ... crazy. Pretty much, yeah. Trading for another starter is madness. This team is in first place. The starters they have (including Price, the ostensible 1) haven't pitched well as a group. I think most people would argue that the starting staff isn't going to finish the year with an ERA just shy of 5. They have 6 starters for 5 spots. They also have (plenty of) time to sort out just who those five should be. What on earth is the benefit of throwing prospects away (who might be useful in another trade out of **need**) to minimally improve a starting rotation that's likely to improve on its own? Somebody please clarify which pitcher(s) on the 2013 team from mid-June to the end of the season were outstanding performers. Because excluding Lester's terrific run, they were all *very* pedestrian, with Lackey's nice surprise season still just borderline #2-quality. Top-notch starters are the most ludicrously overpriced commodity in the game right now, why pay through the nose to get one when you don't *need* him?
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Post by telson13 on May 23, 2016 1:49:42 GMT -5
I also second a Reddick acquisition. Maybe wait until he's had a few weeks back. But with him and Young in LF, and B&B in C/RF, that's a terrific OF both offensively and defensively.
Bruce isn't a terrible idea either. He might be better off in LF rather than RF, and Fenway would mean less running. But I'd prefer Reddick.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 23, 2016 2:31:30 GMT -5
I'm repeating my self here but: This team has been the best in the AL because of its farm system. The farm system bailed us out from terrible FA contracts and I want to keep my chips even if some of them will bust. You want to trade for a young number 2 starter? OK good, but who? and for what price? The Shelby Miller price? Please! Young SP is the highest commodity in today baseball, who's the GM who's willing to do that? People should stop this WFAN caller non sense! E-Rod will do the trick and help the team in 2-3 weeks, his injury is not that concerning (we're talking arm/shoulder damage here). Carson Smith won't be back? Guess what? Ross has been amazing so far and Workman will be back in the second half and Hembree has been very good and Pat Light throws gas with an awesome splitter. LF help? Yeah, at the RIGHT PRICE I think they should consider bringing Reddick back but if Bean wants one of our top 10, I'm cool with what we have (a Young/Holt platoon should be league avg and we could afford that offensively) Here's our top 5 prospects: - Moncada: untouchable, the team invest too much money in him to trade him. - Benintendi: our future LFer so no way we trade him. - Devers: I won't sell low on him. - Espinoza: This team only farming weakness has been developping top of the rotation talent and he's our best shot being that so no, not tradable. - Travis: He's our 1st base depth and we know Hanley will hit the DL at some point. I would consider selling high on Dubon, Ockimey, Kopech if an opportunity (Rich Hill/Reddick) presents its self but other than that I won't let the Cafardos of the medias convince me other wise. I've been waiting for too long to see this unique combination of home made roster with unique top talent farm depth to waste it away.
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