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Red Sox Acquire B. Ziegler from AZ for Alej. Basabe, Almonte
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Post by semperfisox on Jul 9, 2016 7:53:39 GMT -5
Really can't complain with what they have up. Solid trade.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jul 9, 2016 7:55:01 GMT -5
"You can look at the numbers and you can see that these are going to be Major League players." -- Dave Stewart Wow, if that's how he thinks about prospects, I'd have Dave Stewart on speed dial for sure. It's a solid trade, losing Basabe's unlikely to really hurt, and I like the approach of filling out the depth of the team. The Sox have a chance if starters who are supposed to be good actually are (Price, Porcello, ERod all to different degrees), and don't if they aren't. So might as well boost the depth with low cost moves while we see.
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Post by Smittyw on Jul 9, 2016 8:09:09 GMT -5
"You can look at the numbers and you can see that these are going to be Major League players." -- Dave Stewart
Wow, if that's how he thinks about prospects, I'd have Dave Stewart on speed dial for sure.
It's a solid trade, losing Basabe's unlikely to really hurt, and I like the approach of filling out the depth of the team. The Sox have a chance if starters who are supposed to be good actually are (Price, Porcello, ERod all to different degrees), and don't if they aren't. So might as well boost the depth with low cost moves while we see. Ramos, Haley, and Matheny for Goldschmidt -- do it now, DD!
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 9, 2016 8:09:34 GMT -5
He hasn't even touched the top 20 - which should leave him flexibility to make a little bigger upgrade for a SP or another RP or position player. Well, Alejandro was 18th, and I assume he was on the verge of easily jumping the Longhi, Ball, Light, Chatham group too.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 9, 2016 8:10:32 GMT -5
Both prospects traded were Rule 5 eligible this year, so both were on my expected trade list. Ziegler will be a FA at the end of the year.
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Post by jmei on Jul 9, 2016 8:10:50 GMT -5
This kind of trade makes sense, but I'm beginning to worry about the mid-term system depth. The Sox have basically lost 2 international classes and have a one-man draft this year. The current/coming young core will help buy time but I think 2-3 years from now our system will start feeling barren as prospects are only going up or out. There might be a time as soon as this off-season to use our major league depth (Shaw, Holt, some middle relief) to buy back a few lottery tickets. I actually think Lowell/Greenville remain reasonably deep, with a good mix of studs (Espinoza, hopefully Groome), high-upside legit prospects (Chavis, X Basabe, Ockimey, Aybar), and interesting depth (Raudes, Cosart, basically the entire Lowell rotation). I also think it's an exaggeration to call it a one-man draft-- Chatham, Anderson, Shawaryn, etc. all have legitimate major league potential.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 9, 2016 8:11:39 GMT -5
"You can look at the numbers and you can see that these are going to be Major League players." -- Dave Stewart Wow, if that's how he thinks about prospects, I'd have Dave Stewart on speed dial for sure. It's a solid trade, losing Basabe's unlikely to really hurt, and I like the approach of filling out the depth of the team. The Sox have a chance if starters who are supposed to be good actually are (Price, Porcello, ERod all to different degrees), and don't if they aren't. So might as well boost the depth with low cost moves while we see. I still get a chuckle thinking about a statement that Stewart made after trading for Peter O'Brien. He all but said he'd be their starting catcher and that he was a decent catcher. Peter O'Brien is, without exaggeration, the worst defensive player I've can recall seeing. He's also yet to catch a game for the Diamondbacks. He also has pretty bad taste in hookers but that's a pretty old story.
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Post by jmei on Jul 9, 2016 8:19:32 GMT -5
Stewart's inanity aside, J Basabe is a legit prospect. He would have been pushing the top 15 in next month's re-rankings, so while he's still a long ways away from the majors, he's not just a fungible lottery ticket in the same way that Almonte is.
That said, I think they sold high on J Basabe. He's not as toolsy as his brother (worse power, speed and defense), and he gets a lot of his present production from a lot of walks, which is not something that necessarily translates well between the low minors and the majors.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jul 9, 2016 8:30:46 GMT -5
Stewart's inanity aside, J Basabe is a legit prospect. He would have been pushing the top 15 in next month's re-rankings, so while he's still a long ways away from the majors, he's not just a fungible lottery ticket in the same way that Almonte is. That said, I think they sold high on J Basabe. He's not as toolsy as his brother (worse power, speed and defense), and he gets a lot of his present production from a lot of walks, which is not something that necessarily translates well between the low minors and the majors. Yeah, for sure ... Basabe's a solid depth prospect. It's not actually a bad trade from Arizona's perspective since Ziegler was unlikely to provide any value, so might as well get something for him. You know, it wasn't so much the numbers part of the line that I thought was funny but the idea that either of these guys were "for sure" Major League players. I mean, I'm not sure I think Devers is a "for sure" Major League player, let alone J Basabe and Almonte. But, in the final analysis, can we all just take a moment and be thankful we can just type Basabe from now on and know we're talking about X?
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Post by libertine on Jul 9, 2016 8:42:49 GMT -5
Well this should help the pen. Just like the Hill deal I really like this trade, another low risk, high reward move.
Now we just need a backend/back half of the rotation starter.
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Jul 9, 2016 8:47:48 GMT -5
Both prospects traded were Rule 5 eligible this year, so both were on my expected trade list. Ziegler will be a FA at the end of the year. Is Ramos on your trade list? I believe he's a minor league free agent this year - Rule 5 last year but injured. They would have to add him to the 40-man after the season correct?
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 9, 2016 8:50:19 GMT -5
I think it's a better deal for the Diamondbacks than you're giving them credit for. They got a B/B- prospect for three months of a reliever. The Red Sox got a pitcher who can help them win this year for a player outside of their Top 10.
But honestly the think I like most about this deal is that, as a staff writer, I don't have to write out "Luis Alexander" or "Luis Alejandro" every damn time I need to re-mention one of them in a story.
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Post by jmei on Jul 9, 2016 9:06:15 GMT -5
I think 9-11 would have been pretty aggressive-- I'd personally have him a good bit lower (in the 15-20 range-- around where he is now). J Basabe's still striking out a lot, he looks like an average defender at 2B at best, and there's not a lot of power or speed. The big attribute is the hit tool, but projecting the hit tool of a guy in low-A is tough, and there are the aforementioned strikeout issues.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Jul 9, 2016 9:56:52 GMT -5
Like this deal as much as I liked the Hill deal. With Martinez, they're now much deeper, and better prepared for the long run to October 2nd. Swihart going to the 60 day DL makes me think we will see a lot of AB in Sept, and possibly for the playoffs.
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Post by trotfan on Jul 9, 2016 10:05:50 GMT -5
I really like this trade. Hopefully, Kimbrel's injury isn't too bad and Ziegler can fill the Carson Smith role. This is exactly my thought ...smith is forgotten about and his impact would have been a huge stabilizing force ...big puzzle piece filled if Kimbrell is ok after the break .
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Post by jdb on Jul 9, 2016 10:06:17 GMT -5
Two good deals. With 18 games to the actual deadline I could see both Ziegler and Hill playing a big part in a win or two before the deadline. Acting early before the break gives each a few days to take it all in and find places to stay for them and their family which could be a hassle.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Jul 9, 2016 10:21:30 GMT -5
Dombrowski has filled two of the three items on his shopping list without giving up anything the Red Sox can't readily replace. It will be interesting to see whether that's because he is in it for the long haul and loves the idea of spending half a decade building around a core of Betts/Bogaerts/Beninteni/Moncada, or whether he's saving his chips for a major overpay for a starting pitcher.
Should make for an interesting three weeks.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 9, 2016 10:55:15 GMT -5
Nice trade! If only Dombrowski finds a way to buy low on a good starter but are there even any starters to be bought low?
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Post by bnich on Jul 9, 2016 11:09:16 GMT -5
Hill isn't considered a buy low starter? What constitutes buy low? Little risk with high reward? He's 36 and on a $6m 1 year deal. I am hoping they can swing something for Hellickson. I think Price can eventually figure it out. Wright and Porcello stay the course. Hellickson would give them quality starts with O'Sullivan keeping them in most ball games. Sounds like enough to give them a shot to me. Out of Kelly, Buchholz and Rodriguez, I think one could get hot and put a nice run together in the second half.
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Post by bnich on Jul 9, 2016 11:12:07 GMT -5
Two good deals. With 18 games to the actual deadline I could see both Ziegler and Hill playing a big part in a win or two before the deadline. Acting early before the break gives each a few days to take it all in and find places to stay for them and their family which could be a hassle. Absolutely. Hill made his presence known last night with 2 hits and 2 rbi. That didn't take long. Love the trade. And his game is made for Fenway. I like the hitting charts and comparisons to Mike Lowell's Fenway success. Let's channel those 2004 good vibes!
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Post by trotfan on Jul 9, 2016 11:17:47 GMT -5
Many are saying we only need a back of the rotation starter but that won't get you a World Series win ...Price vs Arieta game 1 Who is your real #2 Vs Lester ? Is it Wright? already down two games then maybe then you roll out Porchello ? Looking at them sweeping .....sorry but this team needs a True #2 ..........Tehran and Hill are the guys right now but Dave may make a run at Fernandez it's Dave he does these things .
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 9, 2016 11:26:12 GMT -5
Both prospects traded were Rule 5 eligible this year, so both were on my expected trade list. Ziegler will be a FA at the end of the year. Is Ramos on your trade list? I believe he's a minor league free agent this year - Rule 5 last year but injured. They would have to add him to the 40-man after the season correct? Ramos becomes a MLFA if not added to the 40-man. If someone wants Ramos, he goes on the trade list; otherwise, he may get added to the 40-man. Unlike past years, there will be some room on the 40-man roster after the season and not a lot of prospects who require adding. (Of course, Moncada and Benny might be added early.) Right now, the 40-man roster is full and there are four players on the 60-day DL. 40-man FAs at end of year: Uehara, Tazawa, Ziegler, A.Hill 40-man options at end of year: Ortiz, Buchholz, Hanigan Likely 40-man cuts at end of year: O’Sullivan, D.Marrero, Rutledge, M.Martinez Likely 40-man adds at end of year: Smith, Workman, Sandoval, Swihart Assuming none of the options are picked up and all of the likely cuts/adds are made, that leaves 33 players on the 40-man, of which 24 could end up on the 25-man roster: SP - Price, Porcello, Wright, Rodriguez +1 RP - Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, Smith, Hembree, Ross, Layne PP - Betts, Pedroia, Bogaerts, H.Ramirez, Shaw, Bradley, Sandoval, Young, Vazquez (plus Moncada/Benny?) Ben - Leon, Holt, Brentz, Hernandez AAA - Elias, Cuevas, Owens, Johnson, Workman, N.Ramirez, Light, Jerez, Swihart The four most likely adds to the 40-man from the prospect ranks (excluding Moncada/Benny), who would otherwise be MLFA/Rule 5 eligible are Ramos, Haley, Martin and Basabe. Others on the periphery could be Ysla, Pimentel, Maddox and Tavarez, although likely none of them currently make the cut. There would be three open spots on the 40-man, one for a SP and two for AAA depth, or Moncada/Benny. I could also see further culling off the 40-man (Workman/Cuevas, for instance).
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Post by trotfan on Jul 9, 2016 11:28:26 GMT -5
Many are saying we only need a back of the rotation starter but that won't get you a World Series win ...Price vs Arieta game 1 Who is your real #2 Vs Lester ? Is it Wright? already down two games then maybe then you roll out Porchello ? Looking at them sweeping .....sorry but this team needs a True #2 ..........Tehran and Hill are the guys right now but Dave may make a run at Fernandez .Helickson is a great pickup or Hill even Its a tough decision ...Dave loves Fernandez though.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 9, 2016 12:07:09 GMT -5
Many are saying we only need a back of the rotation starter but that won't get you a World Series win ...Price vs Arieta game 1 Who is your real #2 Vs Lester ? Is it Wright? already down two games then maybe then you roll out Porchello ? Looking at them sweeping .....sorry but this team needs a True #2 ..........Tehran and Hill are the guys right now but Dave may make a run at Fernandez .Helickson is a great pickup or Hill even Its a tough decision ...Dave loves Fernandez though. Nah.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 9, 2016 12:21:34 GMT -5
Must have fooled Dave Stewart into thinking this was the good Basabe. ( We're sure it wasn't, right?) I'm still not sure which one we gave up, considering they seemed to swap places this season.
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