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Clay Buchholz's Last Days as a Red Sox?
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 17, 2016 11:34:13 GMT -5
What is your deal with calling players a bust? It reflects really, really poorly on you. Even if Buchholz IS done (and maybe he is, who knows) he's had a nice career, played a key role on a World Champion, had a Top five finish for a Cy Young Award. He's 27th in franchise history in wins, 11th in strikeouts, 33rd in bWAR. That's probably less than we hoped for in the 2007-08 offseason, when he was arguably baseball's best pitching prospect and he'd already thrown a no-hitter. But if you think everyone who isn't outstanding is a bust it says more about you than it does about that player. Call into talk radio with that junk. |
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Post by yazman67 on Jul 17, 2016 14:05:10 GMT -5
Package Buch and Hannigan to the Mets for a bag of balls. Call up Kelly and Vaz and we are good to go!
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Post by coke0myfavdrink on Jul 17, 2016 14:09:49 GMT -5
Package Buch and Hannigan to the Mets for a bag of balls. Call up Kelly and Vaz and we are good to go! I like this idea but would like something I could dream on back. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 17, 2016 14:25:54 GMT -5
There are a lot of pitchers having bad years including the oft pined for Sonny Gray. Clay still is at 91-94. IMO Clay is not done. Confidence, mechanics may be factors but he has looked pretty good out of the pen...and is a multiple innings eater there. If we bring Kelly back and put him in the pen, maybe we can hold Clay in AAA to work on things (if there are things to be worked on). If Kelly falters in the pen or if we have a blip in the rotation, Buch has value to us. Trading him would remove a security blanket and likely not generate a return greater than that loss of comfort. This may or not be true, but a change of scenery is probably best for both sides at this point. Well hell it is true. Look at the Yankees if challenged by myopia. CC, Nova, Pineda, Eovaldi...yada, yada, yada all are tending down. They all have very good arms. Clay has more potential value to the Sox than as trade value. Someone said that he is worth a bag of balls. Really? Then I would rather keep him. Maybe Bannister can help resurrect his confidence or whatever else keeps him from being a top guy. |
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 17, 2016 14:40:21 GMT -5
we can revisit this thread after Clay performs well in late SEPT to help clinch the division ...
long man in the bullpen until at least AUG 1st.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 17, 2016 15:23:54 GMT -5
Sorry but I've been drinking. Lets talk about DEADLIFTS! Clay is worth more than "a bag of balls".
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 17, 2016 15:27:53 GMT -5
I think Clay will be dealt for a minor league reliever. Somebody will take a chance on him. I think he totally needs a change of scenery.
I'll always think of Buchholz's career with the Sox as a disappointment, but not as a bust.
He had an excellent 2010, a solid 2009 2nd half, a good half season in 2011, a spectacular 2/3 of a 2013 season, and he did gut out a crucial 4 innings in Game of the 2013 World Series - I still think had the Cardinals knocked him around that game, they would have won the Series, and Clay had a strong partial 2015 season, and of course a 2007 no-hitter to remember.
He just had too many bouts of domination punctuated by awful pitching and non-stop injuries. He was never what we hoped he'd be unfortunately.
They're going to wind up having to sell low on him, unfortunately, but I think it will be for the best.
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Post by juanpena on Jul 17, 2016 15:38:44 GMT -5
He also gave them a very good effort in Game 6 against the Tigers: 5 shutout innings before leaving with two on to start the sixth -- runners that scored after Franklin Morales relieved him. Everyone remembers Victorino's grand slam but not as many remember Clay's start helped them stay close.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 17, 2016 16:48:19 GMT -5
At least we didn't sign that other no good bust, Tim Lincecum.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 17, 2016 17:15:25 GMT -5
What is your deal with calling players a bust? It reflects really, really poorly on you. Even if Buchholz IS done (and maybe he is, who knows) he's had a nice career, played a key role on a World Champion, had a Top five finish for a Cy Young Award. He's 27th in franchise history in wins, 11th in strikeouts, 33rd in bWAR. That's probably less than we hoped for in the 2007-08 offseason, when he was arguably baseball's best pitching prospect and he'd already thrown a no-hitter. But if you think everyone who isn't outstanding is a bust it says more about you than it does about that player. Call into talk radio with that junk. Very well said, JD. I think some people forget that the other side gets paid too. |
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Post by trotfan on Jul 17, 2016 17:50:43 GMT -5
Sorry but I've been drinking. Lets talk about DEADLIFTS! Clay is worth more than "a bag of balls". Just a guess you have no idea how a strong core or weak core could benefit Clay .or derail mechanics ...keep hitting the suds I'll keep slamming plates . |
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Post by dnfl333 on Jul 17, 2016 18:16:52 GMT -5
What is your deal with calling players a bust? It reflects really, really poorly on you. Even if Buchholz IS done (and maybe he is, who knows) he's had a nice career, played a key role on a World Champion, had a Top five finish for a Cy Young Award. He's 27th in franchise history in wins, 11th in strikeouts, 33rd in bWAR. That's probably less than we hoped for in the 2007-08 offseason, when he was arguably baseball's best pitching prospect and he'd already thrown a no-hitter. But if you think everyone who isn't outstanding is a bust it says more about you than it does about that player. Call into talk radio with that junk. Listen my friend, the facts are undisputed. Poorly? I state facts. Clean up some of the Yankee trolls on this board before u call me out. I have stated the numbers before. Outside of one good season where the player had a 2 ERA with 28 starts the rest of his career has been inconsistant with injury and an ERA over 5. Yes, he was dominate in the one injury plagued year but that season lasted 16 starts. He is a player you cannot count on. Never has, never will be. This year 80IP 55 earned 18 HR'S allowed, come on. Teams like Oakland and Miami can wait not Boston. Bust? Absolutely. Just like I stated Craig, kelly, sandoval, ramirez, Castillo were and are. If your getting paid millions and fans are paying a premium to watch this team, the least a player can do is keep his arse in shape and give everything they have during game time to the fans.. |
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 17, 2016 19:05:48 GMT -5
What is your deal with calling players a bust? It reflects really, really poorly on you. Even if Buchholz IS done (and maybe he is, who knows) he's had a nice career, played a key role on a World Champion, had a Top five finish for a Cy Young Award. He's 27th in franchise history in wins, 11th in strikeouts, 33rd in bWAR. That's probably less than we hoped for in the 2007-08 offseason, when he was arguably baseball's best pitching prospect and he'd already thrown a no-hitter. But if you think everyone who isn't outstanding is a bust it says more about you than it does about that player. Call into talk radio with that junk. Listen my friend, the facts are undisputed. Poorly? I state facts. Clean up some of the Yankee trolls on this board before u call me out. I have stated the numbers before. Outside of one good season where the player had a 2 ERA with 28 starts the rest of his career has been inconsistant with injury and an ERA over 5. Yes, he was dominate in the one injury plagued year but that season lasted 16 starts. He is a player you cannot count on. Never has, never will be. This year 80IP 55 earned 18 HR'S allowed, come on. Teams like Oakland and Miami can wait not Boston. Bust? Absolutely. Just like I stated Craig, kelly, sandoval, ramirez, Castillo were and are. If your getting paid millions and fans are paying a premium to watch this team, the least a player can do is keep his arse in shape and give everything they have during game time to the fans.. "He is a player you cannot count on" TRUE Disappointment? TRUE "Bust" exaggerated nonsense. Also a great disappointment: the frequency of extreme exaggerated claims on this list. It's the worst thing that's happened since the Great Recession. |
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 17, 2016 19:12:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a bust, but despite the decent career numbers, I would have no problem calling it a disappointment.
I mean...his performance this year was one precursor to the trading of AE, and any statement otherwise is intellectually dishonest. I didn't want his option picked up to start the season.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 17, 2016 19:50:41 GMT -5
Sorry but I've been drinking. Lets talk about DEADLIFTS! Clay is worth more than "a bag of balls". Just a guess you have no idea how a strong core or weak core could benefit Clay .or derail mechanics ...keep hitting the suds I'll keep slamming plates . Actually trotfan I've been lifting and working out for 40 years. I'm not a beer drinker, I like red wine myself. Sorry if I upset you, I guess the deadlift plus Buchholz equaled a chuckle for me. Not sure his hamstrings can handle it. Clay would end up on the 60 day DL. |
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fenwayfaithful
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A prospect is fun to watch, but trading him for a sure thing in the Majors is never a losing deal.
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Post by fenwayfaithful on Jul 17, 2016 22:34:48 GMT -5
There is no reason to get rid of him at this point unless someone is willing to eat all of his salary. He's going to bring us nothing in return so if we can save some money that would be great seeing Mookie, Bogaerts, Bradley are soon to get PAID!!!!
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jul 18, 2016 11:54:37 GMT -5
At least we didn't sign that other no good bust, Tim Lincecum. Shows how bad the Angels are. As BrazilianSox said, there has to be a handful of teams willing to take a shot at him as well as keeping IP off some young arms. Best case, is that he pitches well & they pick up a cheap option. Just keep him in the NL just in case he figures it out. He's an inexpensive James Shields. |
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Post by trotfan on Jul 18, 2016 14:14:22 GMT -5
Clay is a lost elite pitcher ....I'm willing to bet he figures it out .
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Post by bnich on Jul 18, 2016 16:19:15 GMT -5
Sox already have 2 maybe 3 pitchers in the pen that are inconsistent and that is not including Koji who has given it up as well. Why would Dombrowski add 2 more un-reliable arms to the mix in Kelly or Bucholz? Kelly is gone at seasons end if not at the deadline, far as bucholz, like posters have said, maybe the last guy out of the pen for now. Buchholz pitched quite well in his short stint as a RP earlier this season. It certainly doesn't hurt to hang onto him as a bullpen arm instead of just cutting ties mid season. If the Sox get to the playoffs, he could be big for them. I also think Kelly could be good out of the bullpen in 1 to 2 inning stints. Still young with a good fastball. Had success in college as a closer and early in his career with the Cardinals. |
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Post by tookme55 on Jul 18, 2016 16:54:23 GMT -5
There's been hidden costs to the Sox for hanging on to Clay.
We had to bring in Peavy one year due mainly to Clay's injury. Traded away a good shortstop.
We had to bring in Pomeranz this year, due in large part to Clay's horrendous season, especially when you factor in $13M. At least Rodriquez has an injury excuse and Kelly is cheap.
We can't count on him.
A coach has to be able to trust a player. Trust takes form in several ways. Clay simply can't be counted on . Wait, only thing you can count on is that his good streaks will end either due to injury or due to lack of execution. He can't be trusted.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 18, 2016 18:58:43 GMT -5
There's been hidden costs to the Sox for hanging on to Clay. We had to bring in Peavy one year due mainly to Clay's injury. Traded away a good shortstop. We had to bring in Pomeranz this year, due in large part to Clay's horrendous season, especially when you factor in $13M. At least Rodriquez has an injury excuse and Kelly is cheap. We can't count on him. A coach has to be able to trust a player. Trust takes form in several ways. Clay simply can't be counted on . Wait, only thing you can count on is that his good streaks will end either due to injury or due to lack of execution. He can't be trusted. It is certainly an opportunity cost. I think the combo of Clay and JKelly tending to have short starts even when they are going well has also taxed the bullpen beyond the norm for a purported #2 and #4 starter (which obviously neither has been this season) |
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Post by dmaineah on Jul 19, 2016 10:31:55 GMT -5
I think by Thursday they should;
Activate Tazawa from the DL
Send E Rod to AAA
Start Buchholz on Thursday vs Minn
I think this is an option that should be considered for the final days before the trade deadline. It keeps all of the Pitching options open.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 19, 2016 10:36:01 GMT -5
I think by Thursday they should; Activate Tazawa from the DL Send E Rod to AAA Start Buchholz on Thursday vs Minn I think this is an option that should be considered for the final days before the trade deadline. It keeps all of the Pitching options open. Erod just pitched a good game. There is no point in sending him down to mess with his head for the reason of giving Buchholz another start. Tazawa went on DL 5 days ago. They can't call him up this week. How do you know he's not still hurt anyway? |
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 19, 2016 10:44:07 GMT -5
I think by Thursday they should; Activate Tazawa from the DL Send E Rod to AAA Start Buchholz on Thursday vs Minn I think this is an option that should be considered for the final days before the trade deadline. It keeps all of the Pitching options open. Erod just pitched a good game. There is no point in sending him down to mess with his head for the reason of giving Buchholz another start. Tazawa went on DL 5 days ago. They can't call him up this week. How do you know he's not still hurt anyway? Tazawa DL stint was retroactive July 4th so I believe he can be activated any time going forward. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 19, 2016 10:45:44 GMT -5
Erod just pitched a good game. There is no point in sending him down to mess with his head for the reason of giving Buchholz another start. Tazawa went on DL 5 days ago. They can't call him up this week. How do you know he's not still hurt anyway? Tazawa DL stint was retroactive July 4th so I believe he can be activated any time going forward. thanks |
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