SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Clay Buchholz's Last Days as a Red Sox?
|
Post by dmaineah on Jul 19, 2016 10:51:01 GMT -5
I think by Thursday they should; Activate Tazawa from the DL Send E Rod to AAA Start Buchholz on Thursday vs Minn I think this is an option that should be considered for the final days before the trade deadline. It keeps all of the Pitching options open. Erod just pitched a good game. There is no point in sending him down to mess with his head for the reason of giving Buchholz another start. Tazawa went on DL 5 days ago. They can't call him up this week. How do you know he's not still hurt anyway? He is eligible to come off the DL today. He was put on the DL retroactive to July 4th. Farrell said Sunday he was pitching and looking fine. He just was not sure what day he would be activated. I think this move I suggested keeps all players "in play" through the trade deadline. You just explain it that way to E Rod, he will be back. The business of baseball. The only other options I see are to; Send 1 of Barnes, Hembree or Ross down. Or Send Buchholz to the DL with a Phantom injury like a stiff neck and retroactive it back Or Send Brentz down and go with a 12 man Bench & a 13 man Pitching staff Or DFA Buchholz Or Trade Him
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 21, 2016 15:50:27 GMT -5
“@alexspeier: Farrell on Buchholz’ role: ‘I don’t want to say purgatory, but it’s a difficult spot.’ Would have used Buchholz as long man if trailing.”
"purgatory"
|
|
|
Post by jimedsright on Jul 22, 2016 4:31:22 GMT -5
I literally said the exact same thing....back in 2008. Im sick over this ..he's got so much talent and he can turn his career around but it's going to take someone to actually believe what we believe and shut him down and start this program Monday ...I'm only talking core work and gaining muscle through core workouts ...I'm telling you Clay would be incredible with this program .I wish someone would intervene on Clays behalf very soon do not trade Clay until this is tried .Clay is an elite pitcher Come on guys. This guy is a professional athlete surrounded by highly-skilled medical, fitness and health professionals for years on end now. Trust me, every feasible option has at least been proposed to him...at this point he's the way he is either because 1) it's just how he is physically or 2) his choices. Both of which are way past adapting at this point in his life and career. It'd be one thing too if Buchholz had never struggled till this point, but he has, several times. So there's long been tremendous incentive for him to do different things. Clay's biggest issue, has and always will be between his ears. His cat burglar days and appearances with 37 consecutive throws to first may be in the past, but the mental makeup that created those issues is still in that head of his. Sox will probably still try to trade him up till the deadline (or while they have space), knowing that they'll likely have to eat a lot of that $6M. Failing that, yes, I think they'll ask his approval to get him to Pawtucket, let him get 5 starts in August, and trade him in the offseason. Good luck...
|
|
|
Post by jimedsright on Jul 22, 2016 4:45:08 GMT -5
Sox already have 2 maybe 3 pitchers in the pen that are inconsistent and that is not including Koji who has given it up as well. Why would Dombrowski add 2 more un-reliable arms to the mix in Kelly or Bucholz? Kelly is gone at seasons end if not at the deadline, far as bucholz, like posters have said, maybe the last guy out of the pen for now. Who are the "2 maybe 3" inconsistent pitchers (four I guess, since you've added Koji)? Best bullpen depth they've had a while...facts, please. Kelly's unreliability as a starter hasn't been established as de facto for bullpen work--not even close. Most of the bullpen guys in baseball, good and bad, are guys who became "unreliable" as starters at some point in their careers--that's how it works. Kelly's too good of an arm to just give away. Yes, they may try to trade him eventually, but DD won't trade him (especially now) just to get rid of him; that's for sure. And he won't do it until he's given him a chance to pitch again at the big league level. Anyway--you're heading into a stretch drive for the playoffs, and you're gonna unload a guy who throws 100 mph while you have 3 injuries in said "unreliable" bullpen? Great logic. Buch is another matter however. Farrell's comments yesterday were damning and telling. He's basically DMW at this point...we're just not sure which way he'll go out.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,188
|
Post by radiohix on Jul 22, 2016 7:23:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by mannofsteele on Jul 22, 2016 8:15:22 GMT -5
I believe he's here until the end of the season. He looked pretty decent in his inning pitched last night, but it would take a lot of momentum for him to return to the rotation. It would either take a major implosion from Pomeranz, and Eduardo would have to fall flat again. I don't see many teams being that interested, though his velo hit up to 95 with a nice inside low FB at the knees. He's been a solid citizen over his career, and likely needs a change of scenery. I could see Pittsburgh being an interesting fit. They always love reclamation arms. Also, I'd rather keep Buchholz than to see Kelly pitch.
|
|
|
Post by bosox81 on Jul 22, 2016 9:08:34 GMT -5
I believe he's here until the end of the season. He looked pretty decent in his inning pitched last night, but it would take a lot of momentum for him to return to the rotation. It would either take a major implosion from Pomeranz, and Eduardo would have to fall flat again. I don't see many teams being that interested, though his velo hit up to 95 with a nice inside low FB at the knees. He's been a solid citizen over his career, and likely needs a change of scenery. I could see Pittsburgh being an interesting fit. They always love reclamation arms. Also, I'd rather keep Buchholz than to see Kelly pitch. Last night was strange. Buchholz was locating very well for the most part. Yet, his outs were flyballs that I feel if it was the O's or Jays hitting them they would've been gone out of the park.
|
|
|
Post by amfox1 on Jul 22, 2016 9:13:56 GMT -5
I believe he's here until the end of the season. He looked pretty decent in his inning pitched last night, but it would take a lot of momentum for him to return to the rotation. It would either take a major implosion from Pomeranz, and Eduardo would have to fall flat again. I don't see many teams being that interested, though his velo hit up to 95 with a nice inside low FB at the knees. He's been a solid citizen over his career, and likely needs a change of scenery. I could see Pittsburgh being an interesting fit. They always love reclamation arms. Also, I'd rather keep Buchholz than to see Kelly pitch. I'll take the other side of that belief. He looked reasonably good last night. Why wouldn't a team desperate for pitching (I see you TEX) offer a nominal prospect for the chance that Buchholz will provide some value between now and the end of the year; if he doesn't, you let him become a FA.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2016 9:57:25 GMT -5
I believe he's here until the end of the season. He looked pretty decent in his inning pitched last night, but it would take a lot of momentum for him to return to the rotation. It would either take a major implosion from Pomeranz, and Eduardo would have to fall flat again. I don't see many teams being that interested, though his velo hit up to 95 with a nice inside low FB at the knees. He's been a solid citizen over his career, and likely needs a change of scenery. I could see Pittsburgh being an interesting fit. They always love reclamation arms. Also, I'd rather keep Buchholz than to see Kelly pitch. I'll take the other side of that belief. He looked reasonably good last night. Why wouldn't a team desperate for pitching (I see you TEX) offer a nominal prospect for the chance that Buchholz will provide some value between now and the end of the year; if he doesn't, you let him become a FA. Unless he's creating tension in the locker room, another team would have to offer something pretty decent for us to deplete our starter depth more. The "unless" part of that sentence is what I think drives this decision.
|
|
atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,817
|
Post by atzar on Jul 22, 2016 10:30:22 GMT -5
This is a pretty good glimpse into how the struggle and subsequent demotion have affected Clay and his family. Have to feel for him some. Hope he figures it out and carves out a solid role for himself.
|
|
|
Post by dnfl333 on Jul 22, 2016 12:33:21 GMT -5
I believe he's here until the end of the season. He looked pretty decent in his inning pitched last night, but it would take a lot of momentum for him to return to the rotation. It would either take a major implosion from Pomeranz, and Eduardo would have to fall flat again. I don't see many teams being that interested, though his velo hit up to 95 with a nice inside low FB at the knees. He's been a solid citizen over his career, and likely needs a change of scenery. I could see Pittsburgh being an interesting fit. They always love reclamation arms. Also, I'd rather keep Buchholz than to see Kelly pitch. What game were you watching? Lazy fly out Hard hit Double Warning track flyball well hit Warning track flyball well hit The Player is done
|
|
|
Post by dnfl333 on Jul 22, 2016 12:39:20 GMT -5
This is a pretty good glimpse into how the struggle and subsequent demotion have affected Clay and his family. Have to feel for him some. Hope he figures it out and carves out a solid role for himself. 32 Million reasons to cry over the last 4 years. Give me a break. Down the road in Foxboro he would have been gone after the second year. Bye bye Clay have fun with Josh
|
|
|
Post by ray88h66 on Jul 22, 2016 12:50:07 GMT -5
No need to cry for Clay. He will pitch for a few million next year instead of 10's of millions. Feel bad for the guy who got laid off in his 50's with not much hope for another job.
|
|
atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,817
|
Post by atzar on Jul 22, 2016 13:42:42 GMT -5
It's not about the money. Failure hurts, period.
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Jul 22, 2016 14:12:13 GMT -5
It's not about the money. Failure hurts, period. Anyway you slice it, failure hurts. IMO it's different when that 50 year old guy gets laid off & has to tell his family, knowing his future prospects are slim. Clay's failure hurts him & his wife, he just doesn't have that HUGE addition of "how do I feed my family?".
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Jul 22, 2016 14:37:02 GMT -5
I believe he's here until the end of the season. He looked pretty decent in his inning pitched last night, but it would take a lot of momentum for him to return to the rotation. It would either take a major implosion from Pomeranz, and Eduardo would have to fall flat again. I don't see many teams being that interested, though his velo hit up to 95 with a nice inside low FB at the knees. He's been a solid citizen over his career, and likely needs a change of scenery. I could see Pittsburgh being an interesting fit. They always love reclamation arms. Also, I'd rather keep Buchholz than to see Kelly pitch. What game were you watching? Lazy fly out Hard hit Double Warning track flyball well hit Warning track flyball well hit The Player is done Man you are a mean dude. Buchholz is not done. He was consistently 94 last night with a 95 thrown in. Outside of his change-up his command was good. His curve looked sharp.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jul 22, 2016 14:37:40 GMT -5
No need to cry for Clay. He will pitch for a few million next year instead of 10's of millions. Feel bad for the guy who got laid off in his 50's with not much hope for another job. You could feel bad for both. It's not like empathy is a finite resource.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,962
|
Post by jimoh on Jul 22, 2016 14:56:35 GMT -5
I was thinking of how Derek Lowe had an ERA over 5 all of 2004 (with lower FIP) but then became a post-season hero. Not as bad as Buchholz, but really bad.
|
|
|
Post by azblue on Jul 22, 2016 15:59:51 GMT -5
Clay is not a fit for Boston. He could do quite well in a smaller market or more friendly environment. KC or St. Louis and most western U.S. cities might give him the opportunity for a fresh start.
|
|
|
Post by amfox1 on Jul 22, 2016 16:09:42 GMT -5
32 Million reasons to cry over the last 4 years. Give me a break. Down the road in Foxboro he would have been gone after the second year. Bye bye Clay have fun with Josh Thanks for responding. Remember, all pitchers fluctuate in performance. Over the long haul, a pitcher's performance will tend revert to the norm. Lately, Clay hasn't been used at all and, given that, his performance was better than anticipated. Lastly, perhaps you should work on making your posts a little more substantive and less reactionary.
|
|
|
Post by ray88h66 on Jul 22, 2016 16:30:10 GMT -5
No need to cry for Clay. He will pitch for a few million next year instead of 10's of millions. Feel bad for the guy who got laid off in his 50's with not much hope for another job. You could feel bad for both. It's not like empathy is a finite resource. You all are better people than I. I'm trying to see it.
|
|
|
Post by dnfl333 on Jul 22, 2016 19:46:52 GMT -5
What game were you watching? Lazy fly out Hard hit Double Warning track flyball well hit Warning track flyball well hit The Player is done Man you are a mean dude. Buchholz is not done. He was consistently 94 last night with a 95 thrown in. Outside of his change-up his command was good. His curve looked sharp. Done. Last several starts his fastball was getting crushed and the Team found themselves down 4 runs before the game begins. Velocity doesn't mean jack. He can no longer generate swings and misses. Read ASpier, or is he a mean dude also?
|
|
|
Post by dnfl333 on Jul 22, 2016 19:58:09 GMT -5
32 Million reasons to cry over the last 4 years. Give me a break. Down the road in Foxboro he would have been gone after the second year. Bye bye Clay have fun with Josh Thanks for responding. Remember, all pitchers fluctuate in performance. Over the long haul, a pitcher's performance will tend revert to the norm. Lately, Clay hasn't been used at all and, given that, his performance was better than anticipated. Lastly, perhaps you should work on making your posts a little more substantive and less reactionary. Not a chance my friend. The numbers don't lie, or should I bore you again with the numbers? The Redsox "great ones" never threw this bad. The great ones never had an average ERA over 5 in 7 of 9 seasons. The great ones would get hit but rebound and get better. Lester, Schilling, Pedro, Tiant, Hurst and the list goes on.
|
|
redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 15,628
Member is Online
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2016 21:28:50 GMT -5
Thanks for responding. Remember, all pitchers fluctuate in performance. Over the long haul, a pitcher's performance will tend revert to the norm. Lately, Clay hasn't been used at all and, given that, his performance was better than anticipated. Lastly, perhaps you should work on making your posts a little more substantive and less reactionary. Not a chance my friend. The numbers don't lie, or should I bore you again with the numbers? The Redsox "great ones" never threw this bad. The great ones never had an average ERA over 5 in 7 of 9 seasons. The great ones would get hit but rebound and get better. Lester, Schilling, Pedro, Tiant, Hurst and the list goes on. WTF are you talking about? Buchholz was crappy this year. Nobody is debating that. But what is the bug up your butt about Buchholz in totality? Has he been a disappointment? Yes. Has he been awful or a "bust"? No way. We're do you get an average ERA of 5 over 7 of 9 seasons? Take out his two best seasons and his ERA is 4.64, but why would you do that? Are you Eric Van in reverse? Eric takes out worst performances to prop up a guy's stats to support his view that the player is excellent while you take out the best performances to make a guy's stats look worse than he is to support your view that the guy is crap. Either way, it's called cherry picking, and it's untruthful. You want truth? Here's his ERAs year by year, 2007: 1.59 in 22.2 IP, 2008: 6.75 in 76 IP, 2009: 4.21 in 92 IP, 2010: 2.33 in 173.2 IP, 2011: 3.48 in 82.2 IP, 2012: 4.56 in 189.1 IP, 2013: 1.74 in 108.1 IP, 2014: 5.36 in 170.1 IP, 2015: 3.26 ERA in 113.1 IP, and 2016: 5.84 ERA in 81.2 IP. That comes out to an ERA lifetime of 4, which during his time, pitching half his games in Fenway, comes out to an ERA+ of 108, or 8% better than average. That is hardly bad. You can say he's disappointing, unreliable, and injury prone, and that he stunk in 2008, was lousy in 2012, really bad in 2014, and awful this season. You can also say he was promising in 2007, hopeful in 2009 when he pitched well toward the end of the season, fantastic in 2011, good until he got hurt in both 2011 and 2015, and spectacular until he got hurt in 2013. That's how he was. Why you talk about him along with "the great ones" is beyond me. Nobody ever claimed he was great. Is it so black and white in your world where somebody is either great or awful and there's no in between? In totality Buchholz was above average but too injury prone and unreliable to really be anything special, but he was hardly some major catastrophe like you make him out to be. This is why everybody is quick to defend Buchholz and tell you that this opinion you have of his total career is stupid.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Jul 23, 2016 9:25:56 GMT -5
Man you are a mean dude. Buchholz is not done. He was consistently 94 last night with a 95 thrown in. Outside of his change-up his command was good. His curve looked sharp. Done. Last several starts his fastball was getting crushed and the Team found themselves down 4 runs before the game begins. Velocity doesn't mean jack. He can no longer generate swings and misses. Read ASpier, or is he a mean dude also? A mean dude in the sense that there is not even a modicum of compassion...especially when presented with a graphic of the human/family side of things which for most would bring things in perspective. As someone else said, Clay may not be a good fit for Boston right now and that I might agree with. He still has a strong arm and I thought coming out of the pen that his command was very good as well. I believe a guy that could give multiple innings could be very helpful with our current bullpen make-up. But, given that this appears to be a win it all year and apparent lower confidence from management, perhaps someone currently more adaptable would be better. As for Speier, what he said is true and I agree with him....Buch is in purgatory.
|
|
|