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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 24, 2016 14:54:05 GMT -5
With the rumors of the Red Sox chasing Quintana and Robertson, what will the Red Sox wind up trading? And how bad will it be?
If the Sox wind up getting Quintana and Robertson I think the deal will wind up being E-Rod, Benintendi, Devers, Swihart, Kopech and possibly more, like a Pat Light.
My guess is that the difference between this deal and a Sale deal would be that the Red Sox would be required to give up Moncada, who I think Dombrowski actually won't deal.
I like Quintana and am luke-warm on Robertson who's either having a down year or declining and has spotty control and makes a lot of money.
If they could make this deal without including Benintendi and Devers (and Groome), then I'd jump at the deal even though I'd not be too crazy about losing Kopech, but if it costs Benintendi or Devers (I'd be more certain of Devers' inclusion), then I don't think it's worth it, particularly given that the Red Sox need four viable starters for the post-season and they have those guys.
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Post by malynn19 on Jul 24, 2016 15:15:51 GMT -5
I just saw this. And what I read was that if its Sale, Moncada is gone. If its Quintana then its Benni and maybe Devers/Kopech. I do not understand what DD's problem is. I was OK with the Kimbrel trade (Allen was too much) and I thought that if you were going to trade Neo (Espinoza) he should of been packaged for Sale, Fernandez or Archer. I think making sure that Ortiz leaves on top is more important than the next few years. But what really bugs me is that a lot of our issues are because of John Farrell and his inability to manage a lineup or a bullpen. This is just getting worse, I hope our team wins 10 in a row so that all this rumors and trades will just go away.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Jul 24, 2016 15:27:15 GMT -5
Mishit
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Post by libertine on Jul 24, 2016 15:30:46 GMT -5
Sorry one player retiring, no matter how great or beloved he is, is not worth giving up the club's future for.
On top of it when Ortiz is gone next season, and so are all of those prospects, what does our future look like?
Part of the reason this team is so fun to watch is all the youngsters that have developed into all-star players.
The prospects of gutting our farm system, and future, is starting to take a toll on me and the fun out of this season. I know some will disagree and claim Papi deserves one more shot at the post season, justifying the trades. All it gives me is a sense of foreboding...
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Post by joshmoody23 on Jul 24, 2016 15:31:58 GMT -5
Dealin' Dave isn't done. He's going for it. If you get Quintana and Robertson I would imagine it would take Benny, Swihart/Vasquez, E Rod and a wildcard guy like Basabe and a guy like Shaw/Henry Owens/Roenis Elias/Pat Light.
If they include Benny, I don't think they would include Devers, Kopech or Groome. I would think they would try to include some of our upper level minor leaguers/major leaguers.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2016 15:33:59 GMT -5
These would all be great trades if the world ends before next season begins.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 24, 2016 15:34:25 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind is that the huge prospect trades haven't been for rentals. Kimbrel and Pomeranz each have a few years under control, and Hill and Ziegler weren't major life changing prospect costs imo. Therefore, I don't think we're selling out specifically to win this year for Big Papi. Now...if we trade E-Rod for Aroldis Chapman, then I'll be right there with y'all with the pitchforks.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jul 24, 2016 15:51:46 GMT -5
Dealin' Dave isn't done. He's going for it. If you get Quintana and Robertson I would imagine it would take Benny, Swihart/Vasquez, E Rod and a wildcard guy like Basabe and a guy like Shaw/Henry Owens/Roenis Elias/Pat Light. If they include Benny, I don't think they would include Devers, Kopech or Groome. I would think they would try to include some of our upper level minor leaguers/major leaguers. Well, the package you list is not terrible. The also-rans at the end (Owens/Elias/Light), meh. Shaw: bummer, but could be selling high. ERod, if you get a better starter, is likely losing his rotation place anyway (not saying I don't love him, but such is life). Basabe -- don't care. Swihart is good, but he is just the kind of prospect I think has greater value in a trade than he probably has slowly developing. As for Benny.... I don't want to trade him, but here's the thing: Quintana is young and under control for a while. This is NOT mortgaging the future. If Quintana and Pomeranz are good, the rotation is really solid this season and next (and beyond with Quintana). Add in Porcello and (gulp) Price, and you have a strong rotation for a number of years. Isn't that worth a solid package of prospects? This is not even including the possibility of Robertson, too, which would be a great value this year with the 'pen woes. Having said all that -- I reiterate my stance that nothing is worth trading Moncada. I'd add that I don't want them to trade Kopech, either, unless it is pretty close to the 1:1 they got Pomeranz with. Benny+ better not include Yoan, Kopech, or Groome (are they allowed to trade Groome?).
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 24, 2016 16:15:46 GMT -5
Another thing to keep in mind is that if the IFA rules don't change next year, our restrictions are up and we will probably let it fly. We may not sign another Espinoza or Moncada, but we may reload some prospects. Not saying it's worth unloading all of what we have now on reactionary moves, but it's worth keeping an eye on.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jul 24, 2016 16:55:25 GMT -5
Ouch. Robertson just gave up 3 HRs in the ninth. He hasn't been a shut down reliever lately.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jul 24, 2016 16:56:35 GMT -5
I'm sure that is going to hurt his stock.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 24, 2016 19:49:16 GMT -5
We really need to pass on Robertson.
I am thinking dombrowski can target other relievers that would cost less, make less and perform better.
Plus I really like the lefty reliever in San Diego As a layne replacement.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 24, 2016 21:03:44 GMT -5
Given the price of trading with San Diego, do we really want to go there a 3rd time?
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Post by larrycook on Jul 24, 2016 21:55:47 GMT -5
We still have one half a set of twins to send them, plus ockimey.
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Post by mattpicard on Jul 25, 2016 9:25:26 GMT -5
Robertson is having a rough season, granted 16 of his 20 ER allowed have come in 4 of his 39 appearances. While he would be a nice addition to the bullpen, I'd hate for the prospect load to increase much beyond what it would take to get Quintana alone. Robertson's getting paid pretty handsomely, too, through 2018.
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Post by cto94 on Jul 25, 2016 10:26:46 GMT -5
I think some of these packages seem a little excessive- Robertson is almost a salary dump at this stage, but either way, there is nothing that forces Dombrowski's hand now- he doesn't need another starter. It would be nice to have Quintana, but this isn't the Pomeranz situation where he really needed to find someone and went out and paid the price to get seemingly the best available guy at the time. Hopefully, he makes a fair offer and sticks to it. I can take or leave Robertson, but I would offer Rodriguez and Benintendi for Quintana, throw in maybe a lottery ticket, and if they don't take it, that's fine. The idea that we trade all that's left of the top 5 in the system for one guy who we don't really need seems laughable to me- Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, and Swihart PLUS Rodriguez? Really? He isn't Sale, and he isn't in that class of pitcher honestly- he's a good, consistent, legit #2 but the prices that are being discussed are what you would give up for one of the 5-10 best pitchers in the game in my view, and he isn't that.
There is no glaring need that Quintana fills, and thus no need to overpay, and whatever you think of Dombrowksi's recent dealings, they have all addressed serious holes at the time- he can't be leveraged into a massive overpay over need, or division rivals putting together a better package, so hopefully he sticks to a reasonable offer and walks if they ask for more
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jul 25, 2016 10:58:53 GMT -5
I think some of these packages seem a little excessive- Robertson is almost a salary dump at this stage, but either way, there is nothing that forces Dombrowski's hand now- he doesn't need another starter. It would be nice to have Quintana, but this isn't the Pomeranz situation where he really needed to find someone and went out and paid the price to get seemingly the best available guy at the time. Hopefully, he makes a fair offer and sticks to it. I can take or leave Robertson, but I would offer Rodriguez and Benintendi for Quintana, throw in maybe a lottery ticket, and if they don't take it, that's fine. The idea that we trade all that's left of the top 5 in the system for one guy who we don't really need seems laughable to me- Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, and Swihart PLUS Rodriguez? Really? He isn't Sale, and he isn't in that class of pitcher honestly- he's a good, consistent, legit #2 but the prices that are being discussed are what you would give up for one of the 5-10 best pitchers in the game in my view, and he isn't that. There is no glaring need that Quintana fills, and thus no need to overpay, and whatever you think of Dombrowksi's recent dealings, they have all addressed serious holes at the time- he can't be leveraged into a massive overpay over need, or division rivals putting together a better package, so hopefully he sticks to a reasonable offer and walks if they ask for more Agree with this. If it could be E-rod + Benny + lottery (not Kopech) for Quintana alone, I think I'd do it. Your basically replacing E-Rod with Quintana. So your trading AB for Quintana. I know that is depleting your OF depth. Moncada could move to the OF. COF is replaceable. #2 starters are not. I don't believe adding Robertson moves the needle much more.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 14, 2016 19:48:06 GMT -5
Does dombrowski revisit some combination of Robertson/Quintana/sale this offseason?
I think Chicago is the first call dombrowski makes after the season ends.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 14, 2016 20:08:06 GMT -5
I don't think that this team should make any sort of big trade this offseason. I hope they go out and get some bullpen help but mostly keep this team as is, while keeping moncada/devers. I think this sox team will compete for the next 3-4 years as it is. If guys like moncada and devers reach their potential that 3-4 years could easily be 5-8.
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Post by malynn19 on Aug 14, 2016 20:30:59 GMT -5
Does dombrowski revisit some combination of Robertson/Quintana/sale this offseason? I think Chicago is the first call dombrowski makes after the season ends. I say 4th call, after he calls the Dodgers for Kershaw, Angels for Trout and the Mets for Syndergaard and Degrom. That way we can have an All Star team and trade Bradley, Betts, Xander, Kopech, Moncada, Benni, Swihart and Devers. Because we need to be like the 1980s Yankees and trade away all our home grown players.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 14, 2016 23:33:14 GMT -5
Does dombrowski revisit some combination of Robertson/Quintana/sale this offseason? I think Chicago is the first call dombrowski makes after the season ends. Pretty sure the first call will be to Encarnacion's agent. Don't think we'll see a blockbuster with CHC.
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 15, 2016 6:22:07 GMT -5
Does dombrowski revisit some combination of Robertson/Quintana/sale this offseason? I think Chicago is the first call dombrowski makes after the season ends. Pretty sure the first call will be to Encarnacion's agent. Don't think we'll see a blockbuster with CHC. What do you think encarnacion wants? 4yr min in the range of 20 to 25? I agree I do not think DDo makes any blockbuster trades. Different set of rules from Henry and company than when he was in tigertown. The pizza guy was very old and wanted to win one now before he passed. Boston wants a competitive team every year. With a chance to win it all every chance it gets, but not trade away to win one year and wreck everything for several. I think he takes a hard look at his bullpen. But I do not think he trades away a big time prospect to get a power arm.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 15, 2016 9:09:28 GMT -5
First thing to deal with in the offseason is the new CBA, isn't it? I haven't read anything about free agency of the rule 5 and whether they'll be delayed because of the CBA or not. It expires on December 1st.
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 15, 2016 10:17:04 GMT -5
First thing to deal with in the offseason is the new CBA, isn't it? I haven't read anything about free agency of the rule 5 and whether they'll be delayed because of the CBA or not. It expires on December 1st. Very interesting that we have not even seen prelim proposals by either the union or the owners. The only 3 things I have heard anything about is changing the 189 salary cap number. Changing the rules on the international signing procedure. Changing the qualifying offer procedure on free agents. Everybody seems to be making money so I can't imagine that neither side wants to rock the boat too much and face a shutdown. But they only 3.5 months to come to a new agreement, before a possible shutdown.
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Post by sibbysisti on Aug 16, 2016 9:11:40 GMT -5
Does dombrowski revisit some combination of Robertson/Quintana/sale this offseason? I think Chicago is the first call dombrowski makes after the season ends. Pretty sure the first call will be to Encarnacion's agent. Don't think we'll see a blockbuster with CHC. ......or White Sox either. 🌝
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