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Post by barney27 on Aug 9, 2016 19:29:56 GMT -5
beni got another hit. righthander but hard thrower. Did not look over matched.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 9, 2016 22:05:00 GMT -5
I know some are saying be patient. And others are saying Brentz isn't that bad. All are true. However---- the Red Sox sort of threw patience out the window with their moves such as trading for Kimbrel and trading for Pomeranz. I understand these guys are here for another 2 years, but overall this team isn't looking to be totally/completely patient. With that said Brentz isn't that bad but he's not very good either. With runners in scoring position his numbers are .286/.286/.357/.643. While it's been only 14 at bats - he has struck out 6 times without drawing a walk. From the games I've watched and we need rbi's in tight situations he just looks overmatched. And if you are playing with a sense of urgency/trying to win, why should there be a split? Though Beni has been and will continue to get most at bats- I'm not complaining over that. But just making a point that Brentz hasn't been that good even if other numbers show different. SIX GAMES. There is no trend yet. It's SIX games. The kid like anyone needs to adjust. Going to a major league team, especially for a top prospect, isn't just walking on to the field. There's a lot of hoopla he needs to deal with and getting your feet wet and watching and absorbing it is useful both long term and short term. What good does it do if you throw a kid in there and he struggles because you never gave him a chance to mentally prepare and get adjusted? By the way, he's been in 5 games and of those 5 I know they lost at least 3 of them. It's meaningless but I only bring it up because people seem to think they have suffered somehow in this six game stretch by him not having even more at bats. By the way, no one is really arguing they don't want him playing every day. We are just saying it's his first six games and there's an easing in period. It's similar to a starter ramping up his innings but for different reasons. Remember pitchers get those days off to mentally adjust to major league life. The manager has already talked about his playing time increasing. There is a ton to complain about with this team but the usage of Benintendi is not even close to one of them after 6 games. You bring up an interesting topic regarding complaining. If you wish to start a thread as to what is top ten biggest / most impactful to complain about- go for it. With that said, this thread is about Benitendi and his call-up. Anything relevant to Beni and baseball imo is fair game.
Therefore in my opinion I always believe you play your best as much you can (of course you need a bench) if your goal is to win. When I read that the coach is thinking of platooning Beni with Brentz I disagree with that. If a few games early they want to get Beni to relax- that's fine. But the Sox traded many prospects for Kimbrel. Spent a ton on Price. Traded Espinoza. All evidence points to that they are trying to win now. My belief as expressed on this forum is if you are trying to win - you play your best. Want to give Beni a day off here and there- okay. But my philosophy would be to mainly play him with an occasional night off until he shows he can't perform. If he wears down at the end, so what. The goal this year is to win. All hands on deck.
I don't believe our manager manages with that sense of urgency which makes the comment that was made that he wants to platoon Beni with Brentz more alarming. But I have a lot more points to complain about with the coach than this. This is just another of many. I realize it could be worse too with other coaches.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 9, 2016 22:29:09 GMT -5
Benintendi looks very poised in the box. He has a plan for every at bat.
Except when facing the Seattle flamethrower, he has not looked overmatched at all.
Great game tonight against he Yankees,
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fenwayfaithful
Rookie
A prospect is fun to watch, but trading him for a sure thing in the Majors is never a losing deal.
Posts: 114
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Post by fenwayfaithful on Aug 10, 2016 0:39:00 GMT -5
I thought it was kind of absurd that we are playing the Yankees and he hits a ball that clearly hits the yellow line and they say, "they need to make a call to NEW-YORK to check on that one". This kid is going to have a career but what a way to get robbed. First game against the Yankees he should of had a home run to make him a red sox legend and it was stolen from him. Oh well
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 10, 2016 1:17:56 GMT -5
I thought it was kind of absurd that we are playing the Yankees and he hits a ball that clearly hits the yellow line and they say, "they need to make a call to NEW-YORK to check on that one". This kid is going to have a career but what a way to get robbed. First game against the Yankees he should of had a home run to make him a red sox legend and it was stolen from him. Oh well The yellow line in left CF is in play. A ball needs to hit to its right to be a HR. Everyone seemed to forget that except the umpire in NYC. O'Brien and Remy mentioned it a few innings later.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 10, 2016 7:24:37 GMT -5
I thought it was kind of absurd that we are playing the Yankees and he hits a ball that clearly hits the yellow line and they say, "they need to make a call to NEW-YORK to check on that one". This kid is going to have a career but what a way to get robbed. First game against the Yankees he should of had a home run to make him a red sox legend and it was stolen from him. Oh well The yellow line in left CF is in play. A ball needs to hit to its right to be a HR. Everyone seemed to forget that except the umpire in NYC. O'Brien and Remy mentioned it a few innings later. Exactly, that was clearly not a HR, reviewers got it right. The umps initial call before they huddled was not a HR signal either. If it had bounced into the stands instead of onto the field, it would have been a ground ruled double. Essentially the same as any other wall ball.
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Post by Gwell55 on Aug 10, 2016 8:12:22 GMT -5
The yellow line in left CF is in play. A ball needs to hit to its right to be a HR. Everyone seemed to forget that except the umpire in NYC. O'Brien and Remy mentioned it a few innings later. Exactly, that was clearly not a HR, reviewers got it right. The umps initial call before they huddled was not a HR signal either. If it had bounced into the stands instead of onto the field, it would have been a ground ruled double. Essentially the same as any other wall ball. I agree it wasn't a HR last night because of the park rule. But the park rule is clearly wrong. As shown on TV last night the line's left edge is clearly above the flat top of the stands (and noted by Remy), If the ball hits the top it is a HR, if the ball hits below the bottom of the yellow line (which is clearly the top of the ledge) it is also a HR... so how can the yellow line be in hit territory and not a HR. The rule is clearly wrong and needs to be re-clarified.
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Post by bnich on Aug 10, 2016 9:46:25 GMT -5
Guess I'm on my own thinking it was a HR. Looked like it hit to right of the yellow line and even landed on top over the wall after before falling back in play. Regardless, that was one well struck ball. Would have been out many other places I believe. The quirkiness of Fenway park steals another one.
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Post by patford on Aug 10, 2016 10:29:34 GMT -5
Baseball could take the guess work out of these situations if painted lines were replaced by some sort of foul-pole type apparatus.
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Post by natesp4 on Aug 10, 2016 10:41:09 GMT -5
Baseball could take the guess work out of these situations if painted lines were replaced by some sort of foul-pole type apparatus. Those can be quite pesky themselves
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 10, 2016 10:51:23 GMT -5
I thought it was kind of absurd that we are playing the Yankees and he hits a ball that clearly hits the yellow line and they say, "they need to make a call to NEW-YORK to check on that one". This kid is going to have a career but what a way to get robbed. First game against the Yankees he should of had a home run to make him a red sox legend and it was stolen from him. Oh well The yellow line in left CF is in play. A ball needs to hit to its right to be a HR. Everyone seemed to forget that except the umpire in NYC. O'Brien and Remy mentioned it a few innings later. And it seems likely the umpires on the field didn't know it, or forgot it, which is why I am baffled by people who insist that baseball didn't need instant replay.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Aug 10, 2016 15:10:30 GMT -5
Very few times in a season do any of us pay attention to that yellow stripe out there in left center. I guess if we have a Pesky Pole, we can have a Benintendi Stripe, or whatever the rest of you can come up with. Love this kid. What a dynamic outfield. 3 centerfielders patrolling the grass at Fenway!
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Post by soxjim on Aug 10, 2016 22:50:52 GMT -5
Well after the disaster tonight on so many levels - a bright spot - is Beni. And it's time to move him up in the order. Batting him 9th is waste. Time to take the kid gloves off and move the kid among top 6 especially with No Mookie and probably no Papi. We're in full-collapse mode. Don't baby the kid.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 10, 2016 23:26:54 GMT -5
Well after the disaster tonight on so many levels - a bright spot - is Beni. And it's time to move him up in the order. Batting him 9th is waste. Time to take the kid gloves off and move the kid among top 6 especially with No Mookie and probably no Papi. We're in full-collapse mode. Don't baby the kid. Where would you bat him, i.e, updated batting order?
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Post by soxjim on Aug 11, 2016 0:20:57 GMT -5
Well after the disaster tonight on so many levels - a bright spot - is Beni. And it's time to move him up in the order. Batting him 9th is waste. Time to take the kid gloves off and move the kid among top 6 especially with No Mookie and probably no Papi. We're in full-collapse mode. Don't baby the kid. Where would you bat him, i.e, updated batting order? I just heard Papi and Betts are day to day. Hanley looks hurt. He looks bad up at the plate. IMO he needs time off but I suppose you're asking "general" with some consideration of my guessing who is hurt. My big three player concerns are what once was a strong middle-of-the order:
a.) Are Papi and Xander wearing down? b.) Hanley's wrist. Hanley looks so bad I'm actually more concerned about him. If Hanley's wrist is okay then he is 5 and Beni 6 then I can have the same top 4 that was today.
But if Beni keeps hitting and Xander doesn't hit "enough," then Beni moves to two while everyone else slides down.
1-- Pedroia 2-- Betts 3-- Papi 4-- Xander 5-- Beni 6-- Hanley 7-- Leon 8-- Shaw/Hill 9-- Bradley
***I don't know what to do when Young comes back other than Betts/Bradley/Beni and Young would need days off while Betts needs to be in as much as possible. If Hanley's wrist continues to bother him, I don't have an answer. The standard/primary answer is platoon Young and Beni. But if Hanley doesn't recover well enough then it would be a shame to keep the other of Young or Beni on the bench when we could use the bat.
**I've read the write-ups since Beni was drafted. I understand the scouting reports are probably conservative which has tempered my expectations. But Beni just looks like "A bat"/ looks like a .300 hitter for a long time and he can hit doubles. He should never be lower than 6 unless we have "an all-star 5." Don't waste him at 9. I love JBJ but he looks like an awkward hitter. Put him at 9 where he excelled before. And he'll get on base more than Shaw or Hill so he'll lead in nice with Pedroia.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Aug 11, 2016 0:45:38 GMT -5
Bradley 9th? How about:
1- Beni 2-Pedroia 3-Papi 4-Betts 5-Xander 6-Bradley 7-Hanley 8-Leon 9-Shaw/Hill
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Post by telson13 on Aug 11, 2016 0:49:24 GMT -5
Where would you bat him, i.e, updated batting order? I just heard Papi and Betts are day to day. Hanley looks hurt. He looks bad up at the plate. IMO he needs time off but I suppose you're asking "general" with some consideration of my guessing who is hurt. My big three player concerns are what once was a strong middle-of-the order:
a.) Are Papi and Xander wearing down? b.) Hanley's wrist. Hanley looks so bad I'm actually more concerned about him. If Hanley's wrist is okay then he is 5 and Beni 6 then I can have the same top 4 that was today.
But if Beni keeps hitting and Xander doesn't hit "enough," then Beni moves to two while everyone else slides down.
1-- Pedroia 2-- Betts 3-- Papi 4-- Xander 5-- Beni 6-- Hanley 7-- Leon 8-- Shaw/Hill 9-- Bradley
***I don't know what to do when Young comes back other than Betts/Bradley/Beni and Young would need days off while Betts needs to be in as much as possible. If Hanley's wrist continues to bother him, I don't have an answer. The standard/primary answer is platoon Young and Beni. But if Hanley doesn't recover well enough then it would be a shame to keep the other of Young or Beni on the bench when we could use the bat.
**I've read the write-ups since Beni was drafted. I understand the scouting reports are probably conservative which has tempered my expectations. But Beni just looks like "A bat"/ looks like a .300 hitter for a long time and he can hit doubles. He should never be lower than 6 unless we have "an all-star 5." Don't waste him at 9. I love JBJ but he looks like an awkward hitter. Put him at 9 where he excelled before. And he'll get on base more than Shaw or Hill so he'll lead in nice with Pedroia.
That's a fairly balanced lineup, although I'd try to get Bradley more AB because his IsoD is excellent and he has power. Awkward or not, I think it's tough to argue with a .286/.367/.515 line. I think Benintendi eventually hits 2 or 3, but 6 is probably good for now. I'd probably use your lineup with JBJ second while Betts is out, keeping the rest in place. I'd have a low threshold for moving Benintendi into the top-5, though...even 1 or 2 if he keeps hitting and he's getting his share of walks. Losing Mookie and Papi together for any extended period would hurt a lot. There would be a lot of shuffling, that's for sure.
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Post by barney27 on Aug 11, 2016 18:53:58 GMT -5
this poor kid has not been in the bigs 2 weeks yet and we have fought about whether he should play every day to now he starts and bats 5th. If we are still trying to win games I am not sure this guy is ready for?
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Post by soxjim on Aug 11, 2016 21:29:53 GMT -5
this poor kid has not been in the bigs 2 weeks yet and we have fought about whether he should play every day to now he starts and bats 5th. If we are still trying to win games I am not sure this guy is ready for? I think he is better than Bryce Brentz. You don't?
Until he shows me over several games he isn't, I'm not going to assume that he can't or not have the team try to ride him. Suppose he is ready? If he is ready then why hold him back?
I'm a big Brock Holt fan but can you say he's been good this year? So who else do you propose to play in the of?
As for batting, what has Hill done? Shaw is a shell of what he was early on. Because he started playing during half-the season last year that means he should automatically hit ahead of Beni?
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Post by soxjim on Aug 12, 2016 0:34:30 GMT -5
Bradley 9th? How about: 1- Beni 2-Pedroia 3-Papi 4-Betts 5-Xander 6-Bradley 7-Hanley 8-Leon 9-Shaw/Hill When I was a lurker I still remember a post made by jmei of Bradley at the time JBJ was hitting .340. He predicted he'd drop to .260. Whether it was an actual prediction or just raising the possibility I can't completely remember. But that stuck with me. He has a knack for getting on base but I don't believe he moves runners and ofc can hit for power but he doesn't seem like a rbi guy. And I prefer to have a 9 hitter that can string along an inning with the leadoff hitter which he would do well. Nothing scientific here. I just don't believe he is much of a hitter. But I can see as telson said he is a 2 because of his ob and power and you have him 6 because of his power and hitting I think.
Interesting having Betts follow Papi. It's hard to explain why I prefer Betts at 3. I guess I'm more slightly concerned with Papi's age in that I believe at this point Betts is better by also considering speed. A Betts double might have been wasted vs Yanks with XB but any double would be wasted if Papi is up. Anyhow I think Betts can get more pitches and if Betts is on base Papi can get more pitches.
But I like yours and Telson's too. Move Beni up and get Betts out of the leadoff spot.
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Post by barney27 on Aug 12, 2016 7:01:55 GMT -5
this poor kid has not been in the bigs 2 weeks yet and we have fought about whether he should play every day to now he starts and bats 5th. If we are still trying to win games I am not sure this guy is ready for? I think he is better than Bryce Brentz. You don't?
Until he shows me over several games he isn't, I'm not going to assume that he can't or not have the team try to ride him. Suppose he is ready? If he is ready then why hold him back?
I'm a big Brock Holt fan but can you say he's been good this year? So who else do you propose to play in the of?
As for batting, what has Hill done? Shaw is a shell of what he was early on. Because he started playing during half-the season last year that means he should automatically hit ahead of Beni?
There is no question that beni should be playing especially now. The question is where do you bat him in the order. I would think 3,4,5 are the pressure spots in the line up. I have no problem batting him 1 or 2 in the line up. He does not strikeout and makes good contact and runs well.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Aug 13, 2016 23:19:03 GMT -5
I'm as big a fan of Benny as anyone but I think it would be real dumb to put additional pressure on this kid already. It ain't broke so don't fix it. Be happy this AA rookie call up is giving us what he has already. The last thing we should be doing is to add more pressure on this kid. Give him some time to feel secure.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 13, 2016 23:49:28 GMT -5
I'm as big a fan of Benny as anyone but I think it would be real dumb to put additional pressure on this kid already. It ain't broke so don't fix it. Be happy this AA rookie call up is giving us what he has already. The last thing we should be doing is to add more pressure on this kid. Give him some time to feel secure. We can agree to disagree. Sox need all hands on deck. The worst that can happen is that he gets "shutdown" by pro pitching this year. His swing / his level of play too good for any long term effects. It's more important to try to win now once we sold out trading a lot of our youth. No time to grow cautious and worry how the kid "will feel." He's a pro now. If he's not good enough this year then we at least unloaded all of our bullets trying.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 13, 2016 23:54:42 GMT -5
I'm as big a fan of Benny as anyone but I think it would be real dumb to put additional pressure on this kid already. It ain't broke so don't fix it. Be happy this AA rookie call up is giving us what he has already. The last thing we should be doing is to add more pressure on this kid. Give him some time to feel secure. We can agree to disagree. Sox need all hands on deck. The worst that can happen is that he gets "shutdown" by pro pitching this year. His swing / his level of play too good for any long term effects. It's more important to try to win now once we sold out trading a lot of our youth. No time to grow cautious and worry how the kid "will feel." He's a pro now. If he's not good enough this year then we at least unloaded all of our bullets trying.
Well, I'm not sure I'd advocate risking Benintendi's long-term success just for this year. At the same time, I don't think moving him up to a higher-pressure spot will hurt him.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 14, 2016 0:37:01 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree. Sox need all hands on deck. The worst that can happen is that he gets "shutdown" by pro pitching this year. His swing / his level of play too good for any long term effects. It's more important to try to win now once we sold out trading a lot of our youth. No time to grow cautious and worry how the kid "will feel." He's a pro now. If he's not good enough this year then we at least unloaded all of our bullets trying.
Well, I'm not sure I'd advocate risking Benintendi's long-term success just for this year. At the same time, I don't think moving him up to a higher-pressure spot will hurt him. Neither do I. I think the concern that he'll be so adversely affected over next year and maybe years after is overstated.
Right now our young kids are wearing down. Betts is hurting. Something is going awfully wrong with Xander. Bradley is wearing down. Travis Shaw isn't even a speck of what he once was. And Aaron Hill isn't very good at all. And Hanley is not good vs lefties.
So if we don't think Beni will be damaged in the future, then what's the point keeping him at 9? He is a better hitter than Travis Shaw or Aaron Hill. If some of our other players are worn down, then more than likely Beni also might be a better alternative. If we made all the trades for Kimbrel, Smith, Pomeranz, and Zeigler for trading good to great prospects, what was it all for if we don't give our team the best chance to win? We're not giving our team the best chance to win if we see our young kids getting whipped while our 9 number hitter is tearing the cover off the ball. I wasn't a fan of trading Espinoza. Though I didn't hate it. But . . . if we hold back Beni (for example keep him behind Shaw) and wind up not making the playoffs because our hitting plummeted, then things are going to beak in my home.
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