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Post by telson13 on Aug 26, 2016 12:13:09 GMT -5
I'd be happy with their 2nd round pick as compensation for their obfuscation. That sounds about right.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Aug 26, 2016 12:19:16 GMT -5
Off the subject (sort of), I saw where they're keeping Shelby Miller in the minors for another start, making his FA clock beginning a year later. I know Pomz & Shelby are different pitchers, just imagining if we gave up something similar for Pomz & he ends up in Pawtucket after just A FEW STARTS!
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Post by azblue on Aug 26, 2016 12:21:28 GMT -5
I'd be happy with their 2nd round pick as compensation for their obfuscation. +
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 26, 2016 13:10:03 GMT -5
Off the subject (sort of), I saw where they're keeping Shelby Miller in the minors for another start, making his FA clock beginning a year later. I know Pomz & Shelby are different pitchers, just imagining if we gave up something similar for Pomz & he ends up in Pawtucket after just A FEW STARTS! Now imagine if we'd given up Moncada and Bradley for him. Because that's basically what the Diamondbacks did.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 26, 2016 13:19:01 GMT -5
That was an insanely stupid trade like we haven't seen since the Bill Bavasi days. I have to applaud the Diamondbacks FO for the complete ineptitude with which they seem to approach everything. Being this bad at your job can't be easy, it takes some dedication to your "craft".
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Post by sox fan in nc on Aug 26, 2016 13:48:51 GMT -5
Off the subject (sort of), I saw where they're keeping Shelby Miller in the minors for another start, making his FA clock beginning a year later. I know Pomz & Shelby are different pitchers, just imagining if we gave up something similar for Pomz & he ends up in Pawtucket after just A FEW STARTS! Now imagine if we'd given up Moncada and Bradley for him. Because that's basically what the Diamondbacks did. I also think they could have gotten more for Ziegler after seeing what the market was for late inning BP arms, even rentals. Almonte/J Basabe felt light on our end.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 15, 2016 14:08:45 GMT -5
a significant deviation from standard practice within the sport, San Diego Padres officials instructed their organization's athletic trainers to maintain two distinct files of medical information on their players -- one for industry consumption and the other for the team's internal use, multiple sources have told ESPN. Trainers were told in meetings during spring training that the distinction was meant to better position the team for trades, according to two sources with direct knowledge of what was said. Major League Baseball is close to concluding its investigation of the Padres' handling of the medical information, and the organization and individuals could face discipline. Shana Wilson, the team's director of communications, said the Padres have been cooperating fully with Major League Baseball's review. www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17554327/san-diego-padres-face-discipline-hiding-players-medical-information-mlb-databaseMore at the link
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Sept 15, 2016 14:16:57 GMT -5
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Post by bluechip on Sept 15, 2016 14:27:00 GMT -5
That is REALLY terrible. They should lose multiple first round picks for that sort of behavior. That is a clear attempt to deceive others in trades. I'm not saying they should be made to return Espinoza, but they should face severe discipline
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nomar
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Posts: 10,440
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Post by nomar on Sept 15, 2016 14:34:18 GMT -5
Lol this is devious but even getting Logan Allen back would seem pretty insane to me. It should be more about hurting them in the future than helping other teams.
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Post by thegoo13 on Sept 15, 2016 14:41:33 GMT -5
Lol this is devious but even getting Logan Allen back would seem pretty insane to me. It should be more about hurting them in the future than helping other teams. You mean like Colin Rea already being sent back to them? Seems totally within reason to me that these trades could all be revisited in some way if it is proven SD lied. Which it appears they did.
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nomar
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Posts: 10,440
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Post by nomar on Sept 15, 2016 14:45:15 GMT -5
Lol this is devious but even getting Logan Allen back would seem pretty insane to me. It should be more about hurting them in the future than helping other teams. You mean like Colin Rea already being sent back to them? Seems totally within reason to me that these trades could all be revisited in some way if it is proven SD lied. Which it appears they did. Unless they investigate the Kimbrel trade I don't see why returning a player not involved in the Espinoza trade makes any sense. And the Pomeranz trade was 1 for 1, so unless you want to screw the Padres beyond belief when Pomeranz has actually performed well, I think they'll hurt them via lost picks rather than the removal of their 2nd best prospect.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 15, 2016 14:46:34 GMT -5
Lol this is devious but even getting Logan Allen back would seem pretty insane to me. It should be more about hurting them in the future than helping other teams. We don't know specifics on what the withheld information was, but it easily could have stopped the Red Sox from giving up Espinoza in the deal and possibly looked elsewhere.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Sept 15, 2016 14:47:25 GMT -5
Lol this is devious but even getting Logan Allen back would seem pretty insane to me. It should be more about hurting them in the future than helping other teams. Well, MLB unwound part of the trade between the Padres and Marlins due to the injured players. The Red Sox acted in good faith and traded Espinoza, a top 15 prospect for Pomeranz with the Padres withholding medical information on Pomeranz. Why wouldn't the Red Sox receive some form of compensation given that they received a pitcher who was apparently not as healthy as it was portrayed by the other party to the trade? If not Allen, why not a draft pick?
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 15, 2016 14:48:00 GMT -5
You mean like Colin Rea already being sent back to them? Seems totally within reason to me that these trades could all be revisited in some way if it is proven SD lied. Which it appears they did. Unless they investigate the Kimbrel trade I don't see why returning a player not involved in the Espinoza trade makes any sense. And the Pomeranz trade was 1 for 1, so unless you want to screw the Padres beyond belief when Pomeranz has actually performed well, I think they'll hurt them via lost picks rather than the removal of their 2nd best prospect. If the Red Sox were harmed by withholding information, they should be compensated.
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Post by bluechip on Sept 15, 2016 14:52:42 GMT -5
Red Sox were hurt (potentially) by this trade, but as much as I'd like the Padres 2017 first round pick or the return of Espinoza, I'm not sure I see that happening. I'd be satisfied with the Padres losing their 2017 and 2018 first round pick.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Sept 15, 2016 14:57:08 GMT -5
MLB came down very hard on the Red Sox for circumventing the international signing limits, so would expect them to do the same with the Padres holding back medical information from other teams. Also, I think we still waiting for MLB to punish the Cardinals for hacking into the Astros' database. That should also be a significant penalty in terms of loss of draft picks (e.g. take away their 1st 2nd draft picks the next two years.).
Edit: It will be interesting to see how far back MLB investigated the Padres withholding medical information from other clubs. Olney's article appears to imply that they had a change in reporting in spring training, but I would think that MLB would be thorough and go back at least a year to identify any anomalies with the Padres players' medical data compared to other MLB teams. If the Red Sox got screwed with both the Kimbrell and Pomeranz trades, there should be no question that the Padres owe the Red Sox some form of compensation in terms of players or draft picks.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 15, 2016 15:51:11 GMT -5
The Marlins deal was immediately changed in the Rea case. I can't see a player involved in a trade being returned a year later, just for the impracticality of it. But who knows? We're all guessing here.
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Post by a2sox on Sept 15, 2016 16:17:41 GMT -5
Ugh. I hope there's more to the penalty than a 30-day Preller suspension.
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Post by jrffam05 on Sept 15, 2016 16:20:17 GMT -5
This is how Preller feels right now
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 15, 2016 16:22:39 GMT -5
I wonder what the Pads have in their real files for Kimbrel and Pomeranz. I hope the Sox get some sort of compensation. That's terrible. Dombrowski has a reputation as a straight shooter and Preller has been nothing but a lying snake.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,440
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Post by nomar on Sept 15, 2016 16:24:21 GMT -5
I wonder what the Pads have in their real files for Kimbrel and Pomeranz. I hope the Sox get some sort of compensation. That's terrible. Dombrowski has a reputation as a straight shooter and Preller has been nothing but a lying snake. Great suits and morals appear to be mutually exclusive.
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Post by bosox81 on Sept 15, 2016 16:32:19 GMT -5
Red Sox were hurt (potentially) by this trade, but as much as I'd like the Padres 2017 first round pick or the return of Espinoza, I'm not sure I see that happening. I'd be satisfied with the Padres losing their 2017 and 2018 first round pick. But that would only hurt the Padres without properly compensating the teams that were potentially hurt in these deals.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 15, 2016 16:34:01 GMT -5
It appears that this is for the Pomeranz deal and there's nothing else happening there, so the Sox don't get recompense.
Before the freakout I predict that'll happen in here because the Red Sox aren't getting anything out of this, I ask this:
Do you really think anything would have gone differently in the Pomeranz deal had they known his arm was sore?
It's not like there's some bombshell that the Padres failed to disclose here. This doesn't have to do with Kimbrel (the report is they started this in Spring Training), and it wasn't like there was some significant issue that happened after the deal like with Rea.
Per the reports when this first came up, the Red Sox weren't looking for a modification of the deal, which also makes me think this wasn't a major issue beyond a significant breach of etiquette.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Sept 15, 2016 16:42:47 GMT -5
It appears that this is for the Pomeranz deal. Before the freakout I predict that'll happen in here because the Red Sox aren't getting anything out of this, I ask this: Do you really think anything would have gone differently in the Pomeranz deal had they known his arm was sore? It's not like there's some bombshell that the Padres failed to disclose here. That's the only thing in play for the Sox. This doesn't have to do with Kimbrel, and it wasn't like there was some significant issue that happened after the deal like with Rea. Per the reports when this first came up, the Red Sox weren't looking for a modification of the deal, which also makes me think this wasn't a major issue beyond a significant breach of etiquette. The Red Sox got a good middle of the rotation starter for an 18 year old pitcher. We can disagree with the trade philosophically (i.e. on the wisdom of trading future wins and ceiling for present wins and reduced risk), but the Red Sox paid below market for Pomeranz. Absent a bombshell in the medicals, I can't see how the Red Sox are entitled to compensation or even why Dombrowski would feel particularly "crossed" (although hearing this would interest me).
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