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Post by Gwell55 on Jan 9, 2013 23:14:33 GMT -5
Have the Red Sox ever had three better pitching prospects (de la Rosa, Barnes, Webster) that project to be MLB starters in their system at one time? Maybe 05 seems to come to mind Jonathan Papelbon Jon Lester Anibal Sanchez Clay Buchholtz
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 11, 2013 22:55:55 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 11, 2013 23:08:45 GMT -5
If Pedro did indeed teach De La Rosa that changeup of his that registers an 80 on the scouting scale, I can't wait for the reunion in spring training as I'm sure there's plenty more knowledge for De La Rosa to soak up from Pedro.
Pedro's approach was amazing. He was fearless. He pounded the strike zone with confidence totally trusting his stuff and Varitek has been quoted that he had learned a lot about calling a game by working with Pedro. I think De La Rosa is in the right organization.
It might not pay off all at once as he's got to get his feet wet again and build up his innings threshold, but within a couple of seasons - if he stays healthy, he can be a really good pitcher - and if he gains command and cuts down the walk, this guy could be the next real ace of the Red Sox starting staff.
His fastball, changeup, and pitching lineage is extremely intriguing.
And this could keep a wonderul chain moving.
In 1974, an end-of-the-line Juan Marichal enjoyed pitching in Boston and when Pedro was first dealt to Boston in the offseason of 1997-1998, Marichal, Pedro's idol, told Pedro he'd enjoy Boston and to give it a chance. And now Pedro, who's Rubby's idol, is here to help Rubby in Boston. There's something very symmetrical in all of that.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 11, 2013 23:46:23 GMT -5
;D. I love that he throws one Pedro speed change up, one josh Beckett speed change up. And one change up faster than Josh Beckett's fastball.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 12, 2013 13:09:52 GMT -5
That's obviously intriguing, but I'll have to see it to believe it. Unless the change has dramatically different action than the fastball, it seems to me that it'd be counter-productive to throw it that fast, because it's not creating enough separation to disrupt the timing. Reports are his fastball has a natural downward cut, so I'm not saying it's impossible. I just want to maintain a healthy dose of skepticism.
Part of the problem is that the Daisuke era made me especially cynical of these reports of phantasmagorical superpitches.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,700
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Post by nomar on Jan 12, 2013 13:10:58 GMT -5
If he's throwing a 94 mph changeup than his FB must be sitting around 98.
I just hope he gains better command of his arsenal.
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Post by patrmac04 on Jan 12, 2013 14:28:24 GMT -5
Rubby is coming off Tommy John surgery and has topped out at 110.1 IP in 2010 and 100.2 IP in 2011. He will be on a fairly strict innings cap and I'd be surprised if he pitched more than 130-40 innings in 2013. He certainly will not be ready for major league action as a full-time starter coming out of Spring Training, no matter how good he looks. He may be a candidate for spot starts over the course of the season and may transition to a bullpen role in the major leagues later in the season if the Red Sox are in the pennant race and need a reliever, but it's hard to see de la Rosa playing a more significant role than that in 2013. He might be ready for a full season's worth of innings by 2014, but even that might be a stretch. Get that man a beer. Exactly what I was thinking.
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Post by patrmac04 on Jan 12, 2013 14:32:38 GMT -5
Have the Red Sox ever had three better pitching prospects (de la Rosa, Barnes, Webster) that project to be MLB starters in their system at one time? Lester, Papelbon, A. Sanchez
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 12, 2013 15:51:04 GMT -5
Anyone else remember when Dave Cameron said he wouldn't trade Jeremy Reed for either Jon Lester or Jonathan Papelbon? Good times, good times ...
But I'll believe Rubby's "mastered" the Martinez change-up when I see it. That's like saying someone "mastered" the Carlton slider, or the Blyleven curve. Pedro's change-up was one of the game's all-time best pitches.
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Post by jioh on Jan 12, 2013 15:56:05 GMT -5
Have the Red Sox ever had three better pitching prospects (de la Rosa, Barnes, Webster) that project to be MLB starters in their system at one time? Lester, Papelbon, A. Sanchez Roger Clemens, Bruce Hurst, Bobby Ojeda, John Tudor, Oil Can Boyd, Al Nipper, Tom Bolton
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 12, 2013 18:08:27 GMT -5
Roger Clemens, Bruce Hurst, Bobby Ojeda, John Tudor, Oil Can Boyd, Al Nipper, Tom Bolton That group didn't overlap in the minors though. Tudor was drafted in '76 and in the majors by '79. Clemens wasn't drafted until '83, Tudor's last year with Boston. Including them together would be like considering Papelbon and Barnes part of the same class.
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Post by hammerhead on Feb 19, 2013 12:35:30 GMT -5
Rubby starting to get a little press. He's working with Pedro which is what we all hoped would happen. There is a small video of him throwing at boston.com (sorry I can't do link from work). In that video the first pitch he throws at full speed behind the L-screen took my breath away. I have a feeling that the Sox see him more as the closer of the future and that worries me, I think he could be a true 1 or 2 starter in a couple years if he can maintain his health. He is my absolute binky for the forseeable future.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 19, 2013 13:39:18 GMT -5
Rubby starting to get a little press. He's working with Pedro which is what we all hoped would happen. There is a small video of him throwing at boston.com (sorry I can't do link from work). In that video the first pitch he throws at full speed behind the L-screen took my breath away. I have a feeling that the Sox see him more as the closer of the future and that worries me, I think he could be a true 1 or 2 starter in a couple years if he can maintain his health. He is my absolute binky for the forseeable future. I think the Sox will give him every chance to be a starter until he proves he can't be. I would think closer would be a fallback position for the Sox. But they do have to treat him with kid gloves. The key is health and harnessing his control. If he does that, the sky's the limit - and he certainly has the right pitcher to help guide him along in Pedro.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 19, 2013 14:08:07 GMT -5
Keep in mind that he has two very good to exceptional pitches already, and one that grades out as average maybe better if he masters it. That sort of arsenal usually keeps you out of the bullpen. Durability will be the big issue going forward. The day I watched him he was zoned in on the plate with both the glove-popping tailing fastball and the bottom-dropping changeup, but TJ surgery can lead to wildness till everything sorts out with the new ligament. It's going to take a little time, but this guy may be the real deal.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 22, 2013 15:56:49 GMT -5
I recently noticed that the site has RDLR's ceiling as being that of a '6' while Barnes and Bradley are each a '7'.
I realize there are questions upon whether or not RDLR can eat enough innings to become an ace-like starter (same warranted concerns as with Pedro and many others) but I don't see how this should knock his ceiling.
If scouts or soxprospects fans were polled on who had the highest ceiling between Bradley, Barnes and RDLR I feel confident that RDLR would win by a large margin.
Am I wrong about this? Or is this an oversight?
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 22, 2013 19:22:37 GMT -5
I don't think you are incorrect. If we are talking ceilings then they should all be 7s. I do think his ceiling is technically the highest of all 3. In actuality, I believe Barnes is ranked too high at number 2 on the SP rankings. Ruby and JBjr are just as good ceiling wise and have done it at a higher level. Don't see how Barnes can be considered a better prospect.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Feb 22, 2013 19:29:15 GMT -5
Lets keep this conversation about Ruby de la Rosa and move any conversation about soxprospects.com rankings to the Meta Forum please.
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Post by gatortough on Feb 23, 2013 9:42:00 GMT -5
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Post by brianthetaoist on Feb 23, 2013 13:43:34 GMT -5
I'm as excited as anyone about RDLR. I see a guy who's present arsenal would likely make him a shutdown closer or a back-end starter. But it's certainly within the realm of possibility that he a) refines his command and b) sharpens his slider into a legitimate average-or-better pitch. If he does either of those things, he's a mid-rotation starter, imo, and if he does both, he's a true #1.
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Post by amfox1 on Feb 24, 2013 17:50:59 GMT -5
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Post by klostrophobic on Feb 24, 2013 18:41:38 GMT -5
HNNNNNNNGG.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Feb 24, 2013 19:59:34 GMT -5
And interestingly, no strikeouts. But perhaps more important, no walks. But really, should he be throwing 100 before the end of February?
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Post by klostrophobic on Feb 24, 2013 20:03:09 GMT -5
Maybe he's holding back.
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Post by buffs4444 on Feb 24, 2013 20:51:32 GMT -5
Hopefully the next time we see him it's March 1, which would be 5 days from now. The pen will be fine, let him start for now....
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Post by jmei on Feb 24, 2013 21:13:10 GMT -5
De La Rosa is capped at 100-ish innings this year considering his recovery from surgery, his previous career-high of 110 IP (in 2010), and the fact that he pitched 14 innings in 2012. I'd rather he throw two or three inning stints so he lasts through September than have him reach his innings limit in late July and have to sit on his thumbs the rest of the year.
Considering how highly they regard him, I'd be very very surprised if the front office doesn't give De La Rosa every opportunity to succeed as a starter in the long run.
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