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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 5, 2013 17:49:11 GMT -5
Chapman and his manager both made it clear that the closers role was their first choice.... Only bring it up to add context to him not being a starter this year. He wants to be a closer. Said he'd do what the team wanted but was clear on his preference. OF COURSE the player wants to be a closer. Yeah, I want to work less and make more money and be told how great and supremely important I am too. And the manager is Dusty Baker, so if you want to hitch you wagon to that star, be my guest. That was strictly an information based post with no opinion inserted. However, since when do closers make more then starters? And if you could clarify what my wagon was it'd be interest to hear I'm sure....
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Post by awall on Jul 5, 2013 17:51:42 GMT -5
Bard was broken before the failed experiment, I don't think having a young guy pitch out of the pen at first would ruin him.
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Post by juanpena on Jul 7, 2013 1:33:02 GMT -5
After Alex Wilson's performance and the incredible workload they've been heaping on Uehara, they HAVE to give Rubby a try now. Don't they?
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Post by larrycook on Jul 7, 2013 9:22:30 GMT -5
After Alex Wilson's performance and the incredible workload they've been heaping on Uehara, they HAVE to give Rubby a try now. Don't they? I would hope so. I wish Rubby's command was better, because he can really bring it. I think he could solve our closer hole for the next six plus years.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2013 10:21:42 GMT -5
You realize they won't just call him up and make him a closer right?
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Post by juanpena on Jul 7, 2013 11:37:44 GMT -5
They don't need to make him a closer right away. They can even stick with a long-range plan of making him a starter. But right now they need help in the bullpen, whatever inning.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 7, 2013 11:58:32 GMT -5
OF COURSE the player wants to be a closer. Yeah, I want to work less and make more money and be told how great and supremely important I am too. And the manager is Dusty Baker, so if you want to hitch you wagon to that star, be my guest. That was strictly an information based post with no opinion inserted. However, since when do closers make more then starters? And if you could clarify what my wagon was it'd be interest to hear I'm sure.... Closers aren't the highest paid pitchers in the game, but they're the highest paid relative to the amount of work they do or talent they possess. For instance there's a very good chance that someone like Edwin Jackson would be making more money today if he'd had the scarlet C attached to him early in his career. And he'd be doing less for his team that he does now as a solid mid-rotation guy. And as far as Dusty Baker wanting Chapman as a closer, he's also the tactical genius who thinks Zack Cozart and his sub-.300 OBP is an ideal number two hitter. He's not really the guy you want to trust when it comes to tactics.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 7, 2013 12:01:26 GMT -5
They don't need to make him a closer right away. They can even stick with a long-range plan of making him a starter. But right now they need help in the bullpen, whatever inning. Hey, you know what the Red Sox could have used last night? A reasonably effective pitcher capable of going 2.2 innings in a four run game to give the rest of the bullpen the night off.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 12:46:13 GMT -5
I don't know if that's true. Major league baseball is so competitive that you have to work awfully hard just to get to the major leagues. This isn't like your office where there is a guy taking a 50K job to sit on his ass instead of working a little harder for the 70K job. Further, we are talking about some of the most driven people on earth. Further the difference in pay is astronomical. In general a fourth starter makes more money than most closers. It's unlikely that a player would accept being a closer for doing less work.
It is true that being a starter involves a fair amount of risk and the players realize this. Chapman, may not want to jeopardize his career by agreeing to become a starter. That's probably a bigger reason why this particular player wants to stay a closer. Other players may want to take that risk.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 7, 2013 13:04:41 GMT -5
Not sure can agree with that Moonstone. I'd venture to think most players want to get to the BL as fast as possible.
As for long relief guys, RDLR could fill that slot, but think back to just last year everyone and how long it took for Wilson to get acclimated to relief role to starting. it doesn't happen over night, probably even over a month even and he probably wouldn't be fully ready until mid August at best for that role. They need someone to fill it with Morales out and Mortenson ineffective and off the 25 man for sure. Workman could be another guy they try out, but why move 2 people they may want as future starters back and forth? Never know how much harm can come from it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2013 13:24:34 GMT -5
Of course they do. But in the case I cited, Chapman was already in the ML.
Apples to oranges. Wilson isn't nearly the talent that RDLR is. I don't see why it would take a month for a player to become a reliever. It's not like it takes extra effort. They could probably put him in the bullpen tomorrow and they are likely considering doing so.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 7, 2013 13:26:55 GMT -5
That was strictly an information based post with no opinion inserted. However, since when do closers make more then starters? And if you could clarify what my wagon was it'd be interest to hear I'm sure.... Closers aren't the highest paid pitchers in the game, but they're the highest paid relative to the amount of work they do or talent they possess. For instance there's a very good chance that someone like Edwin Jackson would be making more money today if he'd had the scarlet C attached to him early in his career. And he'd be doing less for his team that he does now as a solid mid-rotation guy. And as far as Dusty Baker wanting Chapman as a closer, he's also the tactical genius who thinks Zack Cozart and his sub-.300 OBP is an ideal number two hitter. He's not really the guy you want to trust when it comes to tactics. You're creating an argument that doesn't exist. Never was it said or suggested I like Dusty Baker however when talking about Chapman specifically your Dusty Baker bashing is irrelevant. The entire point was regarding the Reds decision to keep Chapman as a closer. The Reds front office, only opinion that matters, doesn't feel he's the inept manager you do. Even if I agree with your assessment its irrelevant. As far as closers working less, why do they work less? In terms of innings and pitches they do, but in terms of days working they pitch considerably more and if you include " days on call" then it's almost 4 times that of a starter. For the most part a SP is focused one day out of 5 then gets a 4 day break to do a lot of golfing and light workouts. Yes there are other thins they I, but so do RP. In my opinion the life of a SP is a a cation compared to that of a closer.
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Post by honkbal on Jul 7, 2013 20:45:44 GMT -5
... For instance there's a very good chance that someone like Edwin Jackson would be making more money today if he'd had the scarlet C attached to him early in his career. And he'd be doing less for his team that he does now as a solid mid-rotation guy. ... Not to nitpick, but there's almost no chance of that. Edwin Jackson isn't making great money for a starter at $13 million per year (AAV), but that contract would beat all but a handful ever given to a relief pitcher. Rafael Soriano and Mariano Rivera are the only two closers to have ever been given contracts that pay that much per year, and both of those deals were shorter term. www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/league-info/highest-paid-players/
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Post by juanpena on Jul 8, 2013 11:28:01 GMT -5
OK, I guess Rubby does need a little more work.
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Post by elguapo on Jul 8, 2013 12:20:39 GMT -5
There's plenty of other fodder to throw at the bullpen before interrupting De La Rosa's previously scheduled development work. Kid is having a nice first year back from TJ.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Jul 8, 2013 12:46:58 GMT -5
Rubby would be more effective in the starters role long term because of his control problems. When he is only out there for 10-15 pitches he will try to throw harder and then his control will get worse. I say stick him in the minors until September and let him refine his slider to at least an average pitch then put him in the bullpen til' the end of the year and have him compete for a starting spot next year.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jul 21, 2013 9:48:14 GMT -5
Anyone know what has been going on with this guy lately?
Over his last 11.2 innings he has given up 21 hits and 10 walks. These numbers are alarmingly bad - even in a small sample size.
Has he regressed? Is he wearing down? Has he changed his mechanics? Is he working on improving other aspects of his game which has led to this statistical regression?
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 21, 2013 18:39:14 GMT -5
Anyone know what has been going on with this guy lately? Over his last 11.2 innings he has given up 21 hits and 10 walks. These numbers are alarmingly bad - even in a small sample size. Has he regressed? Is he wearing down? Has he changed his mechanics? Is he working on improving other aspects of his game which has led to this statistical regression? Goodness only knows. For those clamoring for him to help in the BP....I say no way. He does not have a 100mph fastball as originally advertised. He was 91-94 in spring training and people said that he was still recovering from TJ surgery. Guess what? He is still 91-94 and has poor control. The bullpen desperately needs a reliable guy that does not put men on base. We have 3 guys out there now who semi meet that requirement and one, Tazawa, has lost his velocity. 'We be in trouble'....especially with a starting staff that can't go deep. I know that we will trade some prospects for a better ML reliever and probably a starter too . I wish that we would just stand pat and let this play out. Live to play another day. We already gave up Jacobs for Thornton who has spit the bit twice. My prediction is that Jacobs will be the most impactful over the course. Patience is a damn virtue.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 21, 2013 20:47:07 GMT -5
Goodness only knows. For those clamoring for him to help in the BP....I say no way. He does not have a 100mph fastball as originally advertised. He was 91-94 in spring training and people said that he was still recovering from TJ surgery. Guess what? He is still 91-94 and has poor control. Just to make a point of information, he did, in fact, have a 100 mph fastball in 2011 when he was in the majors. Upper bar is maximum velo value:
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 22, 2013 10:06:02 GMT -5
Goodness only knows. For those clamoring for him to help in the BP....I say no way. He does not have a 100mph fastball as originally advertised. He was 91-94 in spring training and people said that he was still recovering from TJ surgery. Guess what? He is still 91-94 and has poor control. Just to make a point of information, he did, in fact, have a 100 mph fastball in 2011 when he was in the majors. Upper bar is maximum velo value: Chris, Not RDLR related, but didn't Chris Carpenter also have 98-100mph velo also in the cubs organization prior to coming over and his elbow injuries? Sometimes (back to RDLR) guys work hard enough in rehab that the velo increases afterward, but there HAVE been cases where they do lose some from the surgery and this could be happening everyone, so lets give him time to work through his mechanics and get it all sorted out before everyone starts going.. well.. Maybe the pen still isn't the worst fit now short term.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 22, 2013 10:50:20 GMT -5
Just to make a point of information, he did, in fact, have a 100 mph fastball in 2011 when he was in the majors. Upper bar is maximum velo value: Chris, Not RDLR related, but didn't Chris Carpenter also have 98-100mph velo also in the cubs organization prior to coming over and his elbow injuries? Sometimes (back to RDLR) guys work hard enough in rehab that the velo increases afterward, but there HAVE been cases where they do lose some from the surgery and this could be happening everyone, so lets give him time to work through his mechanics and get it all sorted out before everyone starts going.. well.. Maybe the pen still isn't the worst fit now short term. I do recall someone noting that before the spring games started, RDLR had hit 100 in practice. It just did not materialize in games. I don't know whether he can hump it up for an inning. Tazawa had greatly improved velo following his surgery and now has dropped back. Lackey apparently also has better velocity following his op. Also neither suffered control problems once they returned. Dice K was one whose velocity dropped a few mph. Curious.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 22, 2013 20:55:12 GMT -5
Just to make a point of information, he did, in fact, have a 100 mph fastball in 2011 when he was in the majors. Upper bar is maximum velo value: Chris, Not RDLR related, but didn't Chris Carpenter also have 98-100mph velo also in the cubs organization prior to coming over and his elbow injuries? Sometimes (back to RDLR) guys work hard enough in rehab that the velo increases afterward, but there HAVE been cases where they do lose some from the surgery and this could be happening everyone, so lets give him time to work through his mechanics and get it all sorted out before everyone starts going.. well.. Maybe the pen still isn't the worst fit now short term. Yup
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Post by kungfuizzy on Aug 3, 2013 18:02:11 GMT -5
DeLaRosa was recalled tonight according to NESN. Awesome news
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 4, 2013 8:18:25 GMT -5
Don't read into it. They just needed a fresh arm. He may not even pitch and will be down shortly even if he does.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 4, 2013 8:54:11 GMT -5
I suspect that Rubby is only up until Workman can be recalled. It also appears that they be stretching Morales out for a long reliever role.
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