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8/22-8/25 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
bosox
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Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Aug 24, 2016 22:06:59 GMT -5
The thing that bugs me most is the Benintendi injury honestly. We've had so many losses like that this year im almost kind of numb to it. I know AB hasn't had the impact that Jim Rice did in 75 but his injury reminds me of when Rice had his wrist broken during the pennant race - same kind of bummed feeling.
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Aug 24, 2016 22:08:14 GMT -5
Still say on that replay that AB tore his ACL. The left knee buckled to the left. I just don't think the Red Sox would go out of their way to tell everyone it was just a left knee sprain if they were worried that it was a torn ACL. Makes no sense. They are asking AB all kinds of questions about the injury - his response about 7 times was we'll see tomorrow and what the MRI says.
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Post by monitormichelle on Aug 24, 2016 22:11:24 GMT -5
I just don't think the Red Sox would go out of their way to tell everyone it was just a left knee sprain if they were worried that it was a torn ACL. Makes no sense. They are asking AB all kinds of questions about the injury - his response about 7 times was we'll see tomorrow and what the MRI says. What are you insinuating that his lack of a response means? The Sox know everyone is panicked right now about the injury. It makes zero sense for them to come right out and say it was a sprain if they were legitimately worried about it being a torn ACL.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 24, 2016 22:22:45 GMT -5
Benintendi speaking to the media isn't Norma.
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Aug 24, 2016 22:23:11 GMT -5
They are asking AB all kinds of questions about the injury - his response about 7 times was we'll see tomorrow and what the MRI says. What are you insinuating that his lack of a response means? The Sox know everyone is panicked right now about the injury. It makes zero sense for them to come right out and say it was a sprain if they were legitimately worried about it being a torn ACL. I'm insinuating that they don't know for sure and they weren't going out of their way in the interviews to minimize the concerns about the injury. Watching the AB questioning and now the Farrell questioning, doesn't leave me with a great feeling that it is only a sprain. They've ordered more tests and a MRI first thing in the morning and they'll know more then. So, we'll see how it turns out.
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Post by monitormichelle on Aug 24, 2016 22:27:31 GMT -5
It just doesn't make sense for them to say it was a sprain if they had that concern though. They would've just said that he's going for an MRI tomorrow. They had no obligation to say it was a sprain so I don't think they would've unless they had ruled out a tear. That's all I'm saying. Also, just hoping for the best, I guess. Would really suck to lose this kid now.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 24, 2016 22:29:44 GMT -5
Still say on that replay that AB tore his ACL. The left knee buckled to the left. I just don't think the Red Sox would go out of their way to tell everyone it was just a left knee sprain if they were worried that it was a torn ACL. Makes no sense. I'm with Jimed. I re-watched video, and there's almost certainly a LCL (lateral collateral ligament) and maybe ACL injury, probably an LCL tear. If he escapes with just LCL/ACL sprains (where the ligament stretches but doesn't tear), he was incredibly lucky. When they report "sprain," I suspect that stability testing in the training room suggested no tear (with much less joint "play"). But I'd still be shocked. It really bent all kinds of wrong. LCL injuries don't heal as well as MCLs, and even high-grade sprains can require surgery because long-term instability is common. It can also damage the peroneal nerve. I really hope he's OK, but I'm not reassured by their report at all.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 24, 2016 22:30:38 GMT -5
School year usually doesn't start until after Labor Day. I have no idea usually, but they started this week around here. I was in South Carolina last week and they had started on Monday the 15th.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 24, 2016 22:32:34 GMT -5
Also, LCL partial-tear injuries aren't detected well by MRI (although complete tear injuries are, over 90% sensitivity). So the threshold for surgery will, if it's an LCL, will probably be pretty low.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 24, 2016 22:35:37 GMT -5
Not scoring 2nd and 3rd no outs, thats like the 4th time thats happened this year. Leaving Porcello in vs. Longoria the 4th time through the order when he had 120+ pitches.... How dumb can a manager be? Exactly that dumb. Esp with Zeigler all warmed up. But hey let's try to milk a guy who was gassed and starting to leave it up. Let THAT guy pitch to a bonafide Red Sox killer who, curiously, likes it up because. Manager's got a hunch he can get him one more time tonight no matter what the data say about effectiveness after 90 pitches and 4th time facing an elite hitter and all that stuff.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 24, 2016 22:41:29 GMT -5
And now we have to deal with Farrell getaway day machinations. Really let Sandy and Papi play. They'll have near;y 24 hours to recover and they'll be sleeping in their own bends.
Grind this out, Farrell, don't tiptoe across the field on getaway day. Make it burn for Tampa. Make them watch you celebrate as you walk off the field while they stand and suck on the sour, hot dirt taste of losing.
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Post by bigpupp on Aug 24, 2016 22:46:07 GMT -5
Leaving Porcello in vs. Longoria the 4th time through the order when he had 120+ pitches.... How dumb can a manager be? Exactly that dumb. Esp with Zeigler all warmed up. But hey let's try to milk a guy who was gassed and starting to leave it up. Let THAT guy pitch to a bonafide Red Sox killer who, curiously, likes it up because. Manager's got a hunch he can get him one more time tonight no matter what the data say about effectiveness after 90 pitches and 4th time facing an elite hitter and all that stuff. He had retired the last 11 batters he faced. You must have a different definition of "gassed" than I do.
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Post by brendan98 on Aug 24, 2016 22:51:19 GMT -5
Everybody's knee is different, the injury certainly looked like a lot of the severe knee ligament injuries that I've seen, but some guys have a little more give in the knee, and sometimes the ligaments can just take a little more. My son had a partially tear of his ACL on a very innocent looking thing, and I've seen times where the injury looks horrific and ends up being a sprain. So when they say you have to wait for the MRI they are exactly right, but I will say again, the way it happened I'm hoping for the best (a sprain) but not really expecting it.
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Post by monitormichelle on Aug 24, 2016 23:34:19 GMT -5
Although it would be terrible to see Benintendi's season end like that, it certainly does not kill the Red Sox by any means. Bad timing for a morale killer with the Royals coming into town. But this kid wasn't even in Boston a month ago and the Sox were in the same exact position they are in now. Hoping for a speedy recovery for the boy wonder, regardless.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 24, 2016 23:50:37 GMT -5
Everybody's knee is different, the injury certainly looked like a lot of the severe knee ligament injuries that I've seen, but some guys have a little more give in the knee, and sometimes the ligaments can just take a little more. My son had a partially tear of his ACL on a very innocent looking thing, and I've seen times where the injury looks horrific and ends up being a sprain. So when they say you have to wait for the MRI they are exactly right, but I will say again, the way it happened I'm hoping for the best (a sprain) but not really expecting it. Well, the MRI is a diagnostic tool which is used based on clinical suspicion. It's not a case of "the MRI proves this (X)." Even the imaging itself has to be interpreted by a clinical radiological read, which is guided by pre-imaging diagnosis. A "sprain" is any ligamentous injury, which is why I'm guessing they reported a sprain. But I guarantee you the diagnosis is, in large part, made prior to imaging. Odds are, they're pretty sure already whether he needs surgery or not. And they're very sure of the major injury(ies), although pain can limit a physical exam. Imaging is used for confirmation, to obtain additional information on occult injury, to guide surgical intervention, or to rule out an unlikely but catastrophic diagnosis. The MRI improves clinical certainty, but often it doesn't "make" the diagnosis...that's largely done on history and physical examination. I can guarantee one of the first things they did was varus stress testing, and Lachman and anterior drawer testing to see if he has an ACL injury. Imaging has it's own limitations, too...as I said, MRI is almost completely unable to identify LCL partial tears. Imaging should almost always be an adjunct. I agree with you that we'll have to wait for the MRI, but that's only because the MRI will confirm or deny their clinical suspicion, and give a better idea of the severity of (some of) the injuries. I would be shocked (and elated) if he did not tear his LCL and probably ACL. But you're right, some people get lucky and the forces align just right that even a gruesome-looking event turns out much less awfully than expected. I've certainly got my fingers crossed.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 25, 2016 0:30:38 GMT -5
So, missed the game and just got home and was ready to check the game recap and I checked this thread and Benny got injured? Was it bad? If I close everything and just go to sleep, everything will be fine tomorrow right?
If it was bad, then I think we need another top prospect rookie coming up and pumping this team up. Unleash the deepjohn plan.
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Post by monitormichelle on Aug 25, 2016 0:42:37 GMT -5
So, missed the game and just got home and was ready to check the game recap and I checked this thread and Benny got injured? Was it bad? If I close everything and just go to sleep, everything will be fine tomorrow right? If it was bad, then I think we need another top prospect rookie coming up and pumping this team up. Unleash the deepjohn plan. What a game to miss haha. Some think he tore his ACL. Sox say MRI coming this morning. Turn your computer off and then turn it back on again. That should do the trick.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 25, 2016 1:11:35 GMT -5
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 25, 2016 1:49:42 GMT -5
What a game to miss haha. Some think he tore his ACL. Sox say MRI coming this morning. Turn your computer off and then turn it back on again. That should do the trick. Absolutely doing that, I now expect either good news or a Kopech callup when I wake up lol Yeah, didn't look so bad in the video, I really hope we get lucky here. Awful baserunning on the clip by him and to a certain extent Travis Shaw as well. That was the game right there.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Aug 25, 2016 4:07:56 GMT -5
The irrational hate for John Farrell is just ridiculous. He made all the right moves this game. Yes, I know about the times through the order penalty. I also know that our bullpen sucks. Porcello was pitching well and looked like he had another inning in him. He didn't, but you've got to try that every time.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 25, 2016 4:54:56 GMT -5
This team lies awake at night thinking of new, creative ways to lose winnable games. Sorry but there is absolutely nothing new or creative about losing due to letting your starting pitcher go through the order 4 times. The level of ignorance about the TTO penalty and/or its magnitude in this thread is confounding to me.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 25, 2016 5:14:02 GMT -5
Wow....the frustration in losing a close ballgame when the guys are 7-3 on the current road trip is a little over the top. Hope they can win tonight and finish it 8-3, but even if 7-4, that's a helluva job by the guys. I do think Farrell's decision to leave Porcello was a terrible decision.
On the AB front, let's hope, whatever the injury, he and the Sox take their time getting him back on the field. No reason to rush him back, too important to future success.
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Post by jmei on Aug 25, 2016 6:29:30 GMT -5
Exactly that dumb. Esp with Zeigler all warmed up. But hey let's try to milk a guy who was gassed and starting to leave it up. Let THAT guy pitch to a bonafide Red Sox killer who, curiously, likes it up because. Manager's got a hunch he can get him one more time tonight no matter what the data say about effectiveness after 90 pitches and 4th time facing an elite hitter and all that stuff. He had retired the last 11 batters he faced. You must have a different definition of "gassed" than I do. He was 110 pitches into his outing and his velocity was noticeably down (his five fastballs immediately prior to the Longoria PA were 89.6, 89.8, 88.7, 89.3 and 88.6; he averages 91 or so). This isn't 1995 anymore-- you can't just let your starter pitch until he gives up the lead.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 25, 2016 6:42:07 GMT -5
The irrational hate for John Farrell is just ridiculous. He made all the right moves this game. Yes, I know about the times through the order penalty. I also know that our bullpen sucks. Porcello was pitching well and looked like he had another inning in him. He didn't, but you've got to try that every time. Its not irrational at all actually. There are very logical reasons people think he is a bad manager, namely atrocious in game management .
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Aug 25, 2016 6:50:16 GMT -5
This 4th time through the order thing is interesting,
By that criterion, Porcello should have been pulled with two out in the 7th inning, requiring the bullpen to get 3 more outs than it had to in this game. You have to balance the 4th time penalty against the probability of giving up the tying run with another full inning of exposure from the bullpen. Not only that, but then there is the factor that is much more assessable by the coaches in the dugout than by stats on a sheet: The baseball-is-a-marathon-not-a-sprint effect. It is the manager's/coaches' duty to figure out the best way to navigate the team through a 6-month season and hopefully a playoff run. Who is in more need of a break and less need of additional wear and tear, the starter or the bullpen? Which is further complicated because the starter has 4 days to rest until his next action while the bullpen will almost certainly have to provide innings during each of those 4 days.
Using the 4th time penalty, any pitcher throwing a no-hitter where batters have reached and not been subsequently erased from the bases before the inning is over has to be pulled from the game before completing it. Now of course, if the score is 8-0 when the 28th batter comes to the plate, who cares? But if the score is 1-0 or 2-0, and say a batter is on base at the time, sorry, but you don't get a chance for the no-hitter. Abad, you're on!!
A shame the Sox can't seem to keep their LF on the field this year.
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