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Trumbo, Encarnacion, Bautista
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Post by marrcus on Aug 24, 2016 12:17:31 GMT -5
I'd say the chances are pretty good that a dh/fb/of RHH will be on the team after the Winter Meetings. None of these guys has a troublesome agent. I'm also assuming Panda will be gone.
Trumbo: Still relatively young -30?- and has the flashy HR totals. Would cost a lot. What would he do to the Monster? SO's a concern but we're not dealing with a 200 guy.
Encarnacion: BF's choice but would likely require more years than you'd want to give. 34yo in '17.
Bautista: The elder of the three who is pushing 37. Old but he strikes me as fit with good reflexes. Has a few inj's keeping the stats down so you may be able to get him for 1 year/op with a small buyout. It's an intriguing thought given the possibilities of Travis / Devers, after the '17 Season. If healthy JoeBats could hit 25 GreenMon HR's.
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Post by bruinsfan94 on Aug 24, 2016 12:21:46 GMT -5
Bautista is only 36, not pushing 39. I'm scared of Trumbo and would prefer sticking with what we got unless we can get Bautista at 1-2 years for decent money or Encarnaction for less then 3. Trumbo's hiting 250 & has an obp of 312. Scary for the money we will want.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 24, 2016 12:29:23 GMT -5
I'd say the chances are pretty good that a dh/fb/of RHH will be on the team after the Winter Meetings. None of these guys has a troublesome agent. I'm also assuming Panda will be gone. Trumbo: Still relatively young -30?- and has the flashy HR totals. Would cost a lot. What would he do to the Monster? SO's a concern but we're not dealing with a 200 guy. Encarnacion: BF's choice but would likely require more years than you'd want to give. 34yo in '17. Bautista: The elder of the three who is pushing 37. Old but he strikes me as fit with good reflexes. Has a few inj's keeping the stats down so you may be able to get him for 1 year/op with a small buyout. It's an intriguing thought given the possibilities of Travis / Devers, after the '17 Season. If healthy JoeBats could hit 25 GreenMon HR's. Bautista turns 36 in October. I'd give him a one year deal if it was reasonable. Otherwise, I'm not sure that there is a particularly pressing need to sign a DH. The team might be better served by moving Hanley to DH.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 24, 2016 12:44:50 GMT -5
I'd add Carlos Beltran to the mix. Sounds like we kicked the tires on him at the trade deadline.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 24, 2016 12:58:57 GMT -5
Bautista can't stay healthy, no way I give up a pick for Trumbo, and EE wouldn't kill us IMO, but it's still questionable, would cost a pick, and he has his current issues off the field that need monitoring.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 24, 2016 13:01:25 GMT -5
I'd add Carlos Beltran to the mix. Sounds like we kicked the tires on him at the trade deadline. This I could see. He's mashing LHP, and would allow us to sit Shaw vs any LHP (you could play he or Hanley at 1B). And since he was traded he can't be offered a QO.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 24, 2016 13:04:50 GMT -5
Let's hope that forfeiting the pick won't be in the new CBA.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Aug 24, 2016 13:10:27 GMT -5
No for Trumbo and Bautista and also no for Encarnacion.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Aug 24, 2016 13:15:41 GMT -5
I'd probably prefer to stick with what we have but definitely would choose Encarnacion out of those three.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 24, 2016 13:18:29 GMT -5
I am hoping they do not even touch Bautista, just not a fan of him and he seems to be injury prone. Trumbo and EE maybe depending on the prices/longevity of the deal. I would hope the Sox would not go any longer than 2 years for Trumbo or 3 years for EE. I am assuming if they stick to those terms that they would be out of the running due to a team giving out a longer term contract. I like the Beltran idea more so than those 3 as it would definitely not come with a draft pick attached to it and he could likely be had on a 1 year deal.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 24, 2016 13:25:44 GMT -5
I'd probably prefer to stick with what we have but definitely would choose Encarnacion out of those three. It's not as simple as who is the better player. But, what is the length and AAV of the contract? And, possible loss of a draft pick.
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Post by patford on Aug 24, 2016 13:31:29 GMT -5
Make Ortiz the manager and have him come out of retirement during the second half.
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Post by soxpatsceltics on Aug 24, 2016 13:37:29 GMT -5
Ehh I'd go with none of the above. DD should save the big contracts for 2018 free agency.
I fully expect Hanley to be the primary DH for 2017. And on days where he plays 1B as a platoon for Shaw, Leon or Sandoval (if healthy) would be the DH. In my opinion, that is a much better option than throwing a mega contract (and a 1st round pick) at another 30+ year old slugger that can't field.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 24, 2016 14:03:06 GMT -5
I'd say the chances are pretty good that a dh/fb/of RHH will be on the team after the Winter Meetings. None of these guys has a troublesome agent. I'm also assuming Panda will be gone. Trumbo: Still relatively young -30?- and has the flashy HR totals. Would cost a lot. What would he do to the Monster? SO's a concern but we're not dealing with a 200 guy. Encarnacion: BF's choice but would likely require more years than you'd want to give. 34yo in '17. Bautista: The elder of the three who is pushing 37. Old but he strikes me as fit with good reflexes. Has a few inj's keeping the stats down so you may be able to get him for 1 year/op with a small buyout. It's an intriguing thought given the possibilities of Travis / Devers, after the '17 Season. If healthy JoeBats could hit 25 GreenMon HR's. I know we all want Pablo gone, but he still has $80M on the balance of his deal, so that is a big load of money. I think it's more likely (despite what I'd like to do) they'll keep him as the DH for next year build up some value then eat a good part of the contract. By then Devers should at least be ready for AAA possibly more. I'd like to sign Easy E for a 3 yr. deal but that's not going to happen.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 24, 2016 14:06:12 GMT -5
I'd add Carlos Beltran to the mix. Sounds like we kicked the tires on him at the trade deadline. I forgot about this option. He may be the most likely of the big tickets options to sign for less years and $ than the rest of the pack seeking to win a title before he hangs it up. If I'm not mistaken he's made more than any active player. This is the option I'd choose.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 14:24:41 GMT -5
The Sox will have about 35 home runs and 120 RBIs to make up for. No way they go into 2017 without picking up a DH over the winter. Of the four (Encarnacion, Trumbo, Bautista, and Beltran) I'll take Encarnacion by a mile. He has a track record the last 4-5 years of producing the kind of numbers Ortiz is putting up this year. I would spend the dough and make it happen.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 24, 2016 17:14:22 GMT -5
Encarnacion has his hands full with a lawsuit who knows if it's a shakedown!
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 24, 2016 17:41:38 GMT -5
Another potential benefit is that these are all RH power bats within the division (the original 3 as Beltran is not exclusively RH and no longer in the division). Especially with 3 potential LHP in our rotation, it would be really nice to get one of them out of an opposing lineup. That alone isn't a $20M decision, but it is a perk nonetheless.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 24, 2016 17:41:55 GMT -5
I'd go with Beltran, who I think fits the Red Sox' needs better in 2017, but that would be assuming a 1 year deal, which might not be realistic - he could be in line for 2 years even at his advanced age.
If he was amenable to one year, he'd fit their needs better than EE.
The Red Sox only have a short-term need for a DH bat. In 2017, the year begins with Sam Travis still rehabbing and Moncada not major league ready, at least defensively.
At some point, say June I could see Moncada seizing 3b from Travis Shaw or even Pablo Sandoval, if Shaw is dealt for bullpen help or whatever.
By late July or early August I could see Sam Travis forcing his way up to Boston either displacing Hanley to DH or at least limiting his ABs if Beltran hasn't been dealt.
By 2018, Hanley is free to DH for perhaps his final season with the Sox, Travis is at 1b and Moncada is established at 3b. Beltran, Shaw, and maybe even Sandoval would be long gone.
I personally don't think Sandoval hits well enough to be a DH, so despite his enormous contract I don't see the Red Sox going that route. If the Sox decide to cash in Travis Shaw this winter, then yes, I could see Sandoval starting the season at 3b until Moncada forces him out.
Beltran is also a guy who can bat lefty in the middle of the order which would fit better than jamming the top of the lineup with four righties if the Sox were to sign Encarnacion to go with Mookie, Xander and Pedroia.
Also if the Sox would have to give up a draft pick for signing EE, it could be more desirable to not have to do the same for Beltran. The 2016 draft is supposed to be strong and the Sox need to rebuild the lower level of the minors, so it's important that they get that 1st round pick, even if they're picking 20-something.
And of course, not committing to a DH makes it easier for them to pick up a big contract come the end of 2018 or commit to Mookie and/or Xander.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 24, 2016 17:48:15 GMT -5
I am not really intrigued by any of those three and would rather see moncada added then any of those three.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 24, 2016 18:34:57 GMT -5
I am not really intrigued by any of those three and would rather see moncada added then any of those three. Agree Also, Travis Shaw as a cost cntrolled, good fieldiing lefty off the bench (at minimum) in 2017, backing whomever is at 1B, 3B, LF, plus PH and DH is very, very valuable. He is also an integral part of the young core on the field, in the dugout and socially. Finally, this is his first full season, and he is ljust as lkely to improve, as well as help the team improve as young Moncada, Travis, Devers come up. There is zero reason to trade him. Every reason to see how he can contribute in 2017 as the team continues to get younger.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 24, 2016 22:06:44 GMT -5
I'd add Carlos Beltran to the mix. Sounds like we kicked the tires on him at the trade deadline. This I could see. He's mashing LHP, and would allow us to sit Shaw vs any LHP (you could play he or Hanley at 1B). And since he was traded he can't be offered a QO. I like the no-QO thing, plus the fact that he's moderately passable in the OF, a switch-hitter, and probably amenable to a one-year deal. Not to mention the INSANE postseason numbers.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 24, 2016 22:11:07 GMT -5
If Moncada is ready come mid-season, ideally Beltran can be traded to make room/shuffle the INF. So For nothing more than $, they get some DH insurance and maybe a solid prospect or two, depending on how well he hits. On a one-year deal Beltran makes a lot of sense, in the way Rich Hill did for Oakland.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 25, 2016 1:29:52 GMT -5
No, no, and no.
1) Let's begin with a projected batting order for the bulk of a three-year FA DH deal.
Dustin Pedroia, 2B Jackie Bradley, Jr., CF Xander Bogaerts, SS Mookie Betts, RF Yoan Moncada, 3B (or Benintendi) Hanley Ramirez, DH Andrew Benintendi, LF (or Moncada) Travis Shaw / Sam Travis, 1B (9th when Vazquez catches) Sandy Leon, C
This is a lineup that:
A) Desperately needs one more bat! (Especially a RHB, since all it has is Betts, Bogaerts, Hanley, Pedroia, and Leon's better side.) B) Already creates fear and jealousy in every other MLB team.
You've already got Leon hitting 8th or 9th. Do you really need to spend a draft pick and $60M+ to relegate Benintendi, Moncada, Pedroia, or Ramirez to 8th or 9th, too?
They've had the best offense in MLB even without Ortiz. How does downgrading his lineup spot to Moncada, while replacing Holt et al with Benintendi and getting a full season from Leon constitute opening up a lineup hole? And if there's any remaining question that they don't need to sign a DH, Nick Cafardo thinks they do.
2) It doesn't make you that much better. That's actually the bigger thing.
DRS has Travis Shaw as a career +8 R/150 at 3B but just +4 at 1B, which is strange; UZR has it at +3 and +15, respectively. He's +7 between the two positions by DRS, which suggests about +9 at 1B. Hanley's been -5. Moving Hanley back to 1B is at least a 1.0 win defensive downgrade, and maybe approaches 1.5.
As I have noted, in his 147 career PA as a DH, Hanley's been an absurdly better hitter than he has been as a position player. As in, 3.9 WAR (per 150 games) better. And all of that is over the last three seasons, where he's 5.5 WAR better. That's so huge that it's very likely to be partly real, and in fact he's been 0.9 actual WAR better in his 110 PA over his last 3 seasons. Regress that to the mean by adding 540 PA with a typical split ... and it's still 0.7 or 0.8 WAR. All the evidence suggests 0.5 to 1.0 WAR value lost.
You're going to pay for a 4 WAR guy, and you can't get more than 2 or 2.5 wins of net value from him. You might get less. And that's before he starts his decline.
Oh, and quite possibly Rafael Devers ends up replacing Shaw / Travis before the contract is done. (Think about a batting order with that addition. It's so potentially strong top to bottom that it's almost comical. And other than Leon, it's all homegrown!) That's the long term. I've talked about the short term in the "Making room for Moncada and Devers" thread, but I'll go over it again, next post, including whether signing Beltran to a 1-year deal makes sense.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 25, 2016 3:55:09 GMT -5
The age is scary to think about but EE is one of the feared hitters in the league.
He usually strikes out as much as he walks and he is a perennial 40 homerun bat right now.
He has a swing that is made for Fenway. Dead pull hitter. I would go after him.
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