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Wright getting second opinion on shoulder
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Post by soxjim on Sept 5, 2016 20:38:58 GMT -5
Nobody is changing the narrative. Me, bigpupp and the others who are not so outraged by the move have made our points pretty clear. If you're choosing to ignore that and say we are MAKING STUFF UP, well that's on you. You and bigpup are exactly trying to change narrative. Once or twice would be okay- but together you guys its multiple times. 1—bigpup questions others that disagree with his view he says- “can they read Farrell’s mind?” Yet posts before that he was the one telling everyone what Farrell was thinking. It’s okay when he reads Farrell’s mind early on but when he didn’t like how that went he changed the context of his posts. This is called “changing the narrative.” 2—bigpup and I were arguing and when I said I had lost confidence in Farrell so for me when he makes questionable moves I want proof (as a fan) that he didn’t blow it. OFC I realize as a fan I’m not entitled, but I don’t trust the guy. SO your boy bigpup then takes that post and then accuses me of believing ever move Farrell makes is wrong. This is called “changing the narrative.”
3—buigpup said “yeah right it was obvious that Wright was going to get hurt.” He made a sarcastic reply yet again implying that the issue was “it was obvious he’d get hurt” for those of us that thought it was incredibly ignorant. That isn’t the point at all. He’s changing the narrative that those of us thought it that he’d get hurt when that’s not the point at all. The point was there was more risk with a guy like Wright. That has been said/explained how often? Yet your boy tries to change the narrative of our pov that “it must have been obvious.” It had to do with risk. That’s the point. He really doesn’t know that is the point?
4—As for you- your point of “what if Pomz got hurt?” Pomz wasn’t used so what’s the point of your question? That’s like me asking “what if Farrell knew Wright leg issues but still sent him out there?” You seemed to bring up an irrelevant point and change the narrative.
5—You said “I’ll give you that there was a slightly lesser chance of an injury given that Drew had more base running experience” – well that’s the point!!!!! It is obvious isn’t it that Pomz would have a less chance of injury??? Yet then you go on- with “but come one, it's not like Wright never ran a base in his life. I don't think the injury risk was that smaller,”
Your comments attempt to change the narrative of even your own post. First off no one said Wright never ran a base which you are trying to deflect by bringing that up. No one argued that point so why bring it up? YOU even said there is more risk with Wright vs Pomz yet You are trying to define the degree of “the potential injury risk.” You’re trying to make “the degree of injury risk” the point rather than accepting the logical no-brainer which even YOU accept is that there was a lesser chance of injury with Drew.
So add this to even YOUR OWN ADNMSSION that Pomz is more athletic (which I’m going to assume you mean faster on the base paths as well). SO overall Pomz is the better runner to have on base, right? You have to make up things in order to disagree with my question. That’s what you guys have been doing because if you have a pinch runner in, more than likely you are trying to give yourself at least the slightest advantage to score, right? Why do I get the feeling you are going to say not necessarily and argue that sometimes it is just to rest a player – which ofc would be irrelevant to the conversation. *****6- In summary you agree that Pomz has more experience and is more athletic on the base paths yet I’ve read the dissent has been by bigpup maybe that there is more to the injury with Pomz and you have said what happened if Pomz got hurt. So we see we have two realities that Pomz is the best runner while you and bipup are making up “what if scenarios” as your dissent. That’s why I said you guys are making things up. Common sense regardless if it is 3.5% vs 3% - regardless it was stupid not to use the better equipped guy. It is completely ignorant to not go with logical better odds. This is simalr to DELIBERATLEY not brining in your best pinch hitter with your last out and saying well the other guy I know isn't as good but he is almost as good. That's ridiculous!
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Post by bigpupp on Sept 5, 2016 21:06:30 GMT -5
Your original point stated that Farrell went against his "entire managerial philosophy" yet you later admitted that the philosophy you attributed him as having didnt have anything to do with the play your complaining about (catchers not being pinch hit for). Is that not changing the narrative, or are we playing with different rules?
Edit: and for the record, I was asked earlier in the thread for reasons why Wright was used as a runner and offered a few guesses over multiple posts. I even stated that I didn't know if those were the actual reasons, only that they were plausible. I'm sorry you weren't keeping track of the dialogue along the way, but that's on you.
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Post by jmei on Sept 5, 2016 21:14:35 GMT -5
I think we've reached a dead end here. Let's move on. Thanks.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 21, 2016 10:38:29 GMT -5
Does anyone think Steven Wright could be ready for the playoffs? Think it may be worth a shot giving it to him over Buccholz who hasn't been great.
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 21, 2016 11:03:48 GMT -5
Does anyone think Steven Wright could be ready for the playoffs? Think it may be worth a shot giving it to him over Buccholz who hasn't been great Pomeranz who is clearly gassed. There, I fixed it for you
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 21, 2016 11:27:06 GMT -5
Pomeranz is close to pitching his last inning this year IMO.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Sept 21, 2016 11:46:02 GMT -5
Does anyone think Steven Wright could be ready for the playoffs? Think it may be worth a shot giving it to him over Buccholz who hasn't been great Pomeranz who is clearly gassed. There, I fixed it for you Well, i'm thinking ERod is the three and Im with you on Pomeranz.
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 21, 2016 12:14:51 GMT -5
I think ERod is definitely the 3. But could Buch depending on matchups.
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Post by Canseco on Sept 21, 2016 12:32:35 GMT -5
Pomeranz is close to pitching his last inning this year IMO. Agreed. Could they limit his work by transitioning him to the bullpen for the postseason?
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Post by tjb21 on Sept 21, 2016 12:46:21 GMT -5
Feel bad for Wright, pretty much carried the staff (with Rick) the first half, got shelled the 2nd half of his season, then gets hurt on the bases.
From June 25th - the end of his season, he threw 58 1/3 innings and gave up 43 runs (36 ER), I was really worried about him even prior to injury.
I don't see any way he can be on the postseason roster at this point. Bummer for him.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 21, 2016 13:41:12 GMT -5
I think ERod is definitely the 3. But could Buch depending on matchups. I think you have to give the nod to ERod simply because Buch is consistently "meh" while Eduardo is inconsistently great. Go all in all day erryday.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 21, 2016 14:27:55 GMT -5
I think they'll have 2 of Wright/Buch/Pom on the roster and start one of them in game 4 while using a quick hook to go to the other one at the first signs of trouble. If I had to guess, it'll be Buch piggy backing because he's used to coming out of the pen this year.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,706
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Post by nomar on Sept 21, 2016 14:38:41 GMT -5
I think ERod is definitely the 3. But could Buch depending on matchups. I think you have to give the nod to ERod simply because Buch is consistently "meh" while Eduardo is inconsistently great. Go all in all day erryday. Yeah agreed, especially with our then bevy of long relief options should he look rocky in the first couple of innings.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Sept 21, 2016 17:26:19 GMT -5
It looks pretty clear from where I sit
ERod has earned the 3 spot Buchholz gets the 4th, because... ...the Pomeranz fatigue factor, combined with his LHedness and his prior pen experience make him my pen guy.
Kimbrell, Koji, Ziegler, Ross,, Barnes, Scott, Pomeranz and Kelly. I like the many different looks, and matchup nightmares, that group creates. I just don't see enough time for Wright to pull his game together, and gain the refinement needed on that pitch.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 18:19:00 GMT -5
It looks pretty clear from where I sit ERod has earned the 3 spot Buchholz gets the 4th, because... ...the Pomeranz fatigue factor, combined with his LHedness and his prior pen experience make him my pen guy. Kimbrell, Koji, Ziegler, Ross,, Barnes, Scott, Pomeranz and Kelly. I like the many different looks, and matchup nightmares, that group creates. I just don't see enough time for Wright to pull his game together, and gain the refinement needed on that pitch. Not that this really matters right now, but you listed eight relievers. Not sure the Sox will have eight relievers on the postseason roster. If you recall in 2013, the Sox had Quintin Berry on the postseason roster as the designated pinch runner. I think Moncada could fill a similar role this year, leaving room for only seven relievers.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Sept 21, 2016 18:22:34 GMT -5
It looks pretty clear from where I sit ERod has earned the 3 spot Buchholz gets the 4th, because... ...the Pomeranz fatigue factor, combined with his LHedness and his prior pen experience make him my pen guy. Kimbrell, Koji, Ziegler, Ross,, Barnes, Scott, Pomeranz and Kelly. I like the many different looks, and matchup nightmares, that group creates. I just don't see enough time for Wright to pull his game together, and gain the refinement needed on that pitch. Not that this really matters right now, but you listed eight relievers. Not sure the Sox will have eight relievers on the postseason roster. If you recall in 2013, the Sox had Quintin Berry on the postseason roster as the designated pinch runner. I think Moncada could fill a similar role this year, leaving room for only seven relievers. I don't think a speed guy is as critical a need on this team. I think they see more value in the extra reliever.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 18:38:04 GMT -5
Not that this really matters right now, but you listed eight relievers. Not sure the Sox will have eight relievers on the postseason roster. If you recall in 2013, the Sox had Quintin Berry on the postseason roster as the designated pinch runner. I think Moncada could fill a similar role this year, leaving room for only seven relievers. I don't think a speed guy is as critical a need on this team. I think they see more value in the extra reliever. You could be right. If the Sox do go with eight relievers, perhaps Abad could be considered as well (as strictly a lefty specialist who comes in to face one guy, not three). It will be interesting to see which direction the Red Sox go.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Sept 21, 2016 18:46:07 GMT -5
I don't think a speed guy is as critical a need on this team. I think they see more value in the extra reliever. You could be right. If the Sox do go with eight relievers, perhaps Abad could be considered as well (as strictly a lefty specialist who comes in to face one guy, not three). It will be interesting to see which direction the Red Sox go. Yes, rarely has there been a situation where they would be leaving pieces with good value from the roster, but that sure looks the case this year. Abad has pitched well against lefties, but I think Scott's success against both sides might win him a spot. Either way, a decent spot to be in.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Sept 21, 2016 18:55:24 GMT -5
Tthe things I liked about the group suggested are the way they come at people.
Versus LH hitters
Ross is a fireball guy with nasty movement Pomeranz is the big hook, along with well spotted fastballs when not fatigued Scott is the Frisbee tossing LH you want against the toughest left handed batters, or when you need a DP
Against RH hitters
Kelly at 100 MPH and a good curve most nights Barnes is similar, if a few MPH slower Zeigler is a more extreme RH version of Scott Koji is simply a magician with the slop and splitter Kimbrel, effective wild closer who scares the heck out of us as much as the hitter
Noe Ramirez would have been an even better choice than Kelly had he shown more consistency. He would have been a Scott like arm slot from the right side, but he didn't beat out Kelly
That's a lot of looks, which translates to choices at a needed moment.
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Post by jmei on Sept 21, 2016 21:24:46 GMT -5
I dunno, I would just rather have a bullpen full of really good pitchers rather than diversity of styles.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Sept 21, 2016 21:34:40 GMT -5
I dunno, I would just rather have a bullpen full of really good pitchers rather than diversity of styles. For this brief moment in time, isn't this group both good, and diverse? I guess I mention the diversity because I've heard DDski, Hazen, and Farrell mention it as something they sought to create. To your point however, the diversity is not needed if all your arms are firing well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 21:57:13 GMT -5
Living in Kansas City, I've seen up close the value of speed on the bench late in a close game. It has served the Royals well the last couple of seasons. I wouldn't mind seeing Moncada on the bench in the postseason, but I understand the arguments for having that 8th reliever, especially one who is tough on lefties.
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Post by jmei on Sept 21, 2016 23:27:48 GMT -5
I dunno, I would just rather have a bullpen full of really good pitchers rather than diversity of styles. For this brief moment in time, isn't this group both good, and diverse? I guess I mention the diversity because I've heard DDski, Hazen, and Farrell mention it as something they sought to create. To your point however, the diversity is not needed if all your arms are firing well. I think it's an above-average bullpen, but I don't know that it's more than that, and I don't think adding Wright (or Pomeranz/Buchholz/Rodriguez) to that group will make it more than that (flimsy attempt to get back on topic).
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 22, 2016 6:53:49 GMT -5
If Wright is ready for the post season he fits three needs, bullpen (or starter) arm, diversity, AND, speed on the bases.🌝
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 22, 2016 7:04:09 GMT -5
The "playoff roster" is not a set thing, though. The roster in the first series may not be the roster in the second series, which may not be the roster in the World Series. It's entirely possible that Wright won't be ready to start in the ALDS but would be in a potential ALCS. The reports this morning are pretty optimistic, though, sounds like Wright is joining the team in Tampa Bay this weekend ... and it's unclear to me how long it would take a knuckleballer to build up his strength to pitch 5-6 innings.
If Wright's not ready to start in the ALDS, the real question may well be whether the Sox put Wright in the bullpen or have him build up strength in Instrux or something to be ready to take a turn in rotation in the ALCS (if, the good lord willing, they make it that far).
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