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Post by huskies15 on Sept 6, 2016 10:08:13 GMT -5
I have been following the Red Sox farm system on here for a long time. The last couple years have been a blast because of all the high level talent moving to the majors and up through the minors. That said, with all the graduations (and impending graduations of Benni and Yoan) I feel as though the cupboard is going to be a bit barren. There will be some top guys left like Devers, Groome, Kopech, but the depth appears to be challenged. The international sanctions have taken a toll on the places where we can bring in players to facilitate the depth of the system as well.
I am curious to hear some others thoughts on how they view the current crop of minor leaguers and who you are looking to to push the farm system forward.
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 6, 2016 15:35:46 GMT -5
I think this is one of the reasons that the sox probably will not sign a free agent, ee, to cover for papi. The draft pick. They had a good draft this past june. But after the first 5 guys in the farm system it looks weak to me. but, if you can get 1 to 2 guys every year from the system we are in good shape. Devers and the two pitchers, kopech and groome , are good for 2 years from now. You right now on the major league roster have 2 pitchers, e rod and barnes, and seven position players, xb, mookie, jbj, cv, bs, moncada, and beni all under 25. Preety youg team.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 6, 2016 16:32:58 GMT -5
This is supposed to be an especially deep year for the draft, as well.
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Post by GyIantosca on Sept 6, 2016 17:05:34 GMT -5
I thought that they might sign someone to replace Papi at the beginning but now I happy to say I don't think they will and also I feel they believe in Devers also. All the years I been here reading it was always a dream to have a starting 9 of home grown. It is possible to have this. I not talking about some AAAA guy at 2nd base. I talking about quality everywhere. We have two catchers. We even could boast a bench also Shaw and Travis. How about Dubon too.
That's why I feel the system can afford a slow year if this happens. All DD has to do is fix that dam bullpen. Leave the top four alone. Devers, Groome,Kopech and I consider Okimey someone that should be left alone too. I don't want to lose the first round pick next year. If they signed Greinke we would of lost Groome. Just remember that.
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Post by adamoraz on Sept 6, 2016 17:24:28 GMT -5
Personally, I can't wait to see how Kopech and Devers do in Portland after dominating Salem in the 2nd half this year, what Groome looks like in his first full season and whether or not Moncada will stick immediately in the majors or if he'll have to spend some time in Pawtucket to work out the kinks. Outside of the big names I'm looking forward to getting Sam Travis off the DL and seeing how Basabe does in Salem next year. He had a strong 2nd half and gave a good performance in his few games after his promotion. He's got tons of talent so it will be interesting to watch how he does. I'm also excited to see how some of the guys who had breakout seasons this year come back next year. Mauricio Doubon, Bobby Dalbec, Roniel Raudes and Josh Ockimey (Though he slowed down considerably at the end of the year). Some other draft picks like Mike Shawaryn and CJ Chatham and a pitchers like Pennington and Cosart will be worth keeping an eye on as well.
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kman22
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Post by kman22 on Sept 6, 2016 18:33:29 GMT -5
This coming 7/2 will see the Red Sox stock up big time, IMO. Beyond that, with so many young players currently on the big league roster, you hope that the team won't be heavily dependent on the farm next season.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Sept 7, 2016 10:14:25 GMT -5
I guess I'm in the minority here. The BP should be easy to backfill as all we need is 1 or 2 6th/7th inning guys. The only (gaping) hole will be that 1B/DH M.O.O. 30/100 production. For some odd reason, I can't pencil in Sandoval for anything. Sam Travis will need time in AAA to get his legs/timing back. Shaw is a serviceable 3B, as is Hanley for 1B. Moncada will need time in AAA to be a productive MLB hitter.
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Post by tjb21 on Sept 7, 2016 10:22:57 GMT -5
It's a great problem to have.
Kudos to Ben and Theo.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 7, 2016 11:08:02 GMT -5
Assuming Benintendi will be in Boston next year, the system still has two position players that look like potential stars to me (Moncada and Devers) that are in the mix for the next 1-3 years. Dubon genuinely looks like he has a chance of contributing at the major league level (multi-position player, possibly). And there are some good arms in the lower minors (headlined by Kopech and Groome, obviously, but Pennington is intriguing, Cosart could be a good bullpen piece soon, etc). There are some moderately interesting position players in Basabe, Chavis, Ockimey, maybe Longhi that need to develop, and we'll have to see what happens with this year's draft class next year. And Basabe could take a step into more than "moderately interesting."
Overall, it's a good system. Not nearly as good as a year or two ago, but there's time to restock a bit with so much young talent at the major league level. And, if things break right, there's still a solid set of players to integrate into the team as Pedroia/Papi/Hanley move away from the core, or to use as chips.
I, for one, am spoiled, though, by the string of star position prospects we've had to dream on over the last 3-4 years. I was always (and remain) a Swihart believer, and Mookie after his leap, Bogaerts, JBJ at times, Benintendi, Moncada, Devers ... I hope we get a couple top prospects start to emerge in the lower minors soon, but it may be a while before we get a string like this.
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Post by amfox1 on Sept 7, 2016 11:22:02 GMT -5
The last couple years have been a blast because of all the high level talent moving to the majors and up through the minors. That said, with all the graduations (and impending graduations of Benni and Yoan) I feel as though the cupboard is going to be a bit barren. There will be some top guys left like Devers, Groome, Kopech, but the depth appears to be challenged. The international sanctions have taken a toll on the places where we can bring in players to facilitate the depth of the system as well. I am curious to hear some others thoughts on how they view the current crop of minor leaguers and who you are looking to to push the farm system forward. Because Dombrowski has pushed the accelerator with respect to Benny and Moncada, there is far less pressure for any position player prospect to be ready next year. This is also true in terms of pitching. The 25-man roster is essentially full, and the 40-man vacancies are more likely to be filled by stopgaps than prospects. This will give the young fellas more time to develop without pressure (either from within or from folks on boards like this) to break into the majors. I don't see the cupboard as barren at all. Non-40-man position prospects of note - (IF) Devers, Travis, Ockimey, Dubon, Chatham, Dalbec, (OF) Basabe, Longhi, Hill, (C) Romanski Non-40-man pitchers of note - (SP) Groome, Kopech, Lakins, Raudes, Shawaryn, (RP) Ball, Martin, Shepherd, Cosart, Ysla, Pennington, Nogosek, Anderson You should think of 2017 as a prospect back-filling year, and watch for the development of some of the under-the-radar prospects to begin popping up on BA lists by the middle of next summer.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 7, 2016 11:41:42 GMT -5
Interesting article on prospect movement at BP: www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=30272&bcSome suggestion there that teams are high on certain prospects of their own, but that for the most part, bigger prospect packages are required now than in the past. Neither is all that surprising, but it does seem like the Sox have gotten pretty good at internal talent evaluation, which always seemed like a strength (to me, at least) of organizations like the Cards and Braves. I'm not so concerned about the Sox's system depth, as I agree with the idea that a deep young MLB team makes having a deep system much more a luxury than necessity. To me, the real key is top-end talent, which is prohibitively expensive in FA/trade. As long as they have some elite talent (Devers, Groome, Kopech) and a few players like Dalbec or Travis who look to be viable first-division starters, with their financial resources they can extend their own young players and fill holes with much lower-cost mid-level FAs or even pillow-contract guys. I still believe that ideally, they trade established MLB players (provided that they have viable internal backup, eg Shaw, or possibly Clay when they renew his option) to replenish the system with prospects, but only when their own prospects (Moncada, hopefully by next June or so, Devers in a couple of years) provide sufficient redundancy that the risk is *relatively* low. The trick is then finding a team with a specific need, that is down on a quality prospect (eg, the Miller-Rodriguez trade). Or, although they're rare, a prospect challenge trade if they have a guy who's blocked but another team values highly.
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Post by brianvanity on Sept 7, 2016 19:30:11 GMT -5
The last couple years have been a blast because of all the high level talent moving to the majors and up through the minors. That said, with all the graduations (and impending graduations of Benni and Yoan) I feel as though the cupboard is going to be a bit barren. There will be some top guys left like Devers, Groome, Kopech, but the depth appears to be challenged. The international sanctions have taken a toll on the places where we can bring in players to facilitate the depth of the system as well. I am curious to hear some others thoughts on how they view the current crop of minor leaguers and who you are looking to to push the farm system forward. Because Dombrowski has pushed the accelerator with respect to Benny and Moncada, there is far less pressure for any position player prospect to be ready next year. This is also true in terms of pitching. The 25-man roster is essentially full, and the 40-man vacancies are more likely to be filled by stopgaps than prospects. This will give the young fellas more time to develop without pressure (either from within or from folks on boards like this) to break into the majors. I don't see the cupboard as barren at all. Non-40-man position prospects of note - (IF) Devers, Travis, Ockimey, Dubon, Chatham, Dalbec, (OF) Basabe, Longhi, Hill, (C) Romanski Non-40-man pitchers of note - (SP) Groome, Kopech, Lakins, Raudes, Shawaryn, (RP) Ball, Martin, Shepherd, Cosart, Ysla, Pennington, Nogosek, Anderson You should think of 2017 as a prospect back-filling year, and watch for the development of some of the under-the-radar prospects to begin popping up on BA lists by the middle of next summer. Let's not forget to mention Glorius, he put together a impressive season in Greenville for being a NDFA.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Sept 7, 2016 21:18:45 GMT -5
I think this is one of the reasons that the sox probably will not sign a free agent, ee, to cover for papi. The draft pick. They had a good draft this past june. But after the first 5 guys in the farm system it looks weak to me. but, if you can get 1 to 2 guys every year from the system we are in good shape. Devers and the two pitchers, kopech and groome , are good for 2 years from now. You right now on the major league roster have 2 pitchers, e rod and barnes, and seven position players, xb, mookie, jbj, cv, bs, moncada, and beni all under 25. Preety youg team. The 1 or 2 guys a yr. is a loose rule of thumb. With the Red Sox and the recent success of the farm we have more wriggle room at least for a few years. That said with our top 5 we'll be just fine. Don't completely forget Owens or Johnson. To me at least the top ten is still good. Assuming next year's roster has 8 starting positional players from the farm AND that we will be a favorite to represent the AL in the World Series can anyone think of an equivalent team to the SOX and if so how far back do you have to go?
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Post by scarr0214 on Sept 7, 2016 22:04:22 GMT -5
I look at the farm system as what we potentially need. Yes after the top 5 it looks weaker, but if 3 of the top 5 pan out for several years we won't be relying on the farm system. We just need to resign the guys who are producing now. I see the only positions of any concern as 2B after Pedroia (Or 3B if Moncada moves over) and one starting pitcher if one of Kopech and Groome doesn't meet expectations. Travis and/or Shaw/Devers gives us an option at 1B, with all the guys at catcher that will work itself out, and every other position player is obvious. Price, Porcello, Rodriguez, Wright, and ? are in our rotation for several years barring a major injury or collapse. The bullpen will always be a work in progress but I love how Cosart is looking and the return of Carson Smith will be huge. Overall I think acquiring young assets is at the bottom of the list right now. If anything I think Dombrowski has the assets to make another move. If I saw a combination of Bradley and Groome or Kopech move for a bona fide ace like Sale or Fernandez I'd be okay with it.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 7, 2016 22:41:01 GMT -5
I think this is one of the reasons that the sox probably will not sign a free agent, ee, to cover for papi. The draft pick. They had a good draft this past june. But after the first 5 guys in the farm system it looks weak to me. but, if you can get 1 to 2 guys every year from the system we are in good shape. Devers and the two pitchers, kopech and groome , are good for 2 years from now. You right now on the major league roster have 2 pitchers, e rod and barnes, and seven position players, xb, mookie, jbj, cv, bs, moncada, and beni all under 25. Preety youg team. The 1 or 2 guys a yr. is a loose rule of thumb. With the Red Sox and the recent success of the farm we have more wriggle room at least for a few years. That said with our top 5 we'll be just fine. Don't completely forget Owens or Johnson. To me at least the top ten is still good. Assuming next year's roster has 8 starting positional players from the farm AND that we will be a favorite to represent the AL in the World Series can anyone think of an equivalent team to the SOX and if so how far back do you have to go? The closest I can think of is the '86-'88 teams, with Greenwell, Burks, and Reed coming up, and Evans, Rice, Boggs, Barrett, Clemens, Oil Can, and Hurst established, and assorted role/RP guys like Stanley. But Evans and Rice and Barrett (and Boggs, really, by '89) were all nearing or past their peaks, and Hurst left by FA, while Can had the blood clot issue. I can't remember any Sox team beyond maybe the mid-70s that had a similar cohort of high-end young talent (maybe '86), and definitely none that was *this* deep positionally. And definitely none other than the mid-2000s (which didn't have nearly the home-grown talent or youth at the MLB level) that was as talented at the MLB level with as many high-end players still in the pipeline. This is a pretty amazing state for the whole organization to be in right now.
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 8, 2016 7:06:23 GMT -5
The 1 or 2 guys a yr. is a loose rule of thumb. With the Red Sox and the recent success of the farm we have more wriggle room at least for a few years. That said with our top 5 we'll be just fine. Don't completely forget Owens or Johnson. To me at least the top ten is still good. Assuming next year's roster has 8 starting positional players from the farm AND that we will be a favorite to represent the AL in the World Series can anyone think of an equivalent team to the SOX and if so how far back do you have to go? The closest I can think of is the '86-'88 teams, with Greenwell, Burks, and Reed coming up, and Evans, Rice, Boggs, Barrett, Clemens, Oil Can, and Hurst established, and assorted role/RP guys like Stanley. But Evans and Rice and Barrett (and Boggs, really, by '89) were all nearing or past their peaks, and Hurst left by FA, while Can had the blood clot issue. I can't remember any Sox team beyond maybe the mid-70s that had a similar cohort of high-end young talent (maybe '86), and definitely none that was *this* deep positionally. And definitely none other than the mid-2000s (which didn't have nearly the home-grown talent or youth at the MLB level) that was as talented at the MLB level with as many high-end players still in the pipeline. This is a pretty amazing state for the whole organization to be in right now. TOTALLY AGREE the sox are in a good position to compete for several years with a young group. We will see where we go with the resigning of the big three, xb, jbj, and mookie. They have some excellent looking young pitchers and a couple of positional players. in the minors. If they continue to draft well and DO NOT make any 4 for one trades using a lot of high level prospects they are in great shape for the next 3 yrs or so.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 8, 2016 9:20:29 GMT -5
The main issue with the system is the apparent lack of major league ready depth. It would be nice if Johnson and Owens can bounce back, as well as Travis and Swihart. Dubon should be able to be considered SS depth next year, replacing Marrero. Would be nice if Castillo and/or Ramos could be considered decent OF depth since Brentz is likely gone.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 8, 2016 11:00:31 GMT -5
The main issue with the system is the apparent lack of major league ready depth. It would be nice if Johnson and Owens can bounce back, as well as Travis and Swihart. Dubon should be able to be considered SS depth next year, replacing Marrero. Would be nice if Castillo and/or Ramos could be considered decent OF depth since Brentz is likely gone. Good point, although I still think that both Johnson and Owens will contribute at the MLB level, possibly significantly. Not sure how real Aneury Tavarez is, but he may be that guy. For relievers, there may be Martin, Taylor, Maddox, Ysla, possibly some others. Like you said, Dubon (and don't forget Marco Hernandez) both provide MIF depth. I also wouldn't rule out Devers making a push. He put up a pretty solid line in a crappy HR park...look at the numbers of Dubon, Benintendi, and Moncada in Portland as compared to Salem. Kopech might be ready at the end of the year; they'll exercise Buchholz's option so SP depth should be good, if not excellent depending on how Owens and Johnson shake out. While I consider Benintendi a major-leaguer now (I don't see him getting time in the minors ever again except on rehab), Moncada really is MLB-almost-ready depth, and can arguably play 2b/3b/OF. And don't forget that Swihart and Travis are both coming back from injury, while Vazquez is just a year removed from a major one himself. Carson Smith should be ready around July, and who knows if Workman will rebound? There's more there than one might think at first.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Sept 8, 2016 11:28:28 GMT -5
The main issue with the system is the apparent lack of major league ready depth. It would be nice if Johnson and Owens can bounce back, as well as Travis and Swihart. Dubon should be able to be considered SS depth next year, replacing Marrero. Would be nice if Castillo and/or Ramos could be considered decent OF depth since Brentz is likely gone. Are both the Marrero's gone? I mean are they free agents to sign anywhere? I would imagine a 2nd division team would take a flyer on Chris.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 8, 2016 11:57:04 GMT -5
Chris Marrero is a MLFA. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in Japan, to be honest. Otherwise he'll get a ML contract with an invite to spring training. If someone was looking at him seriously as a starter they'd have offered the Sox a cash or a low-level minor leaguer for him.
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Post by adamoraz on Sept 8, 2016 19:11:56 GMT -5
Does anyone think the team would be willing to train Swihart at another position next year, maybe 1b or 3b? I know he has the athletic ability to play anywhere, and considering how quickly they moved him to the outfield this year, it seems that they probably value his bat more than his catching abilities. I'm just thinking that if he could play some infield on top of LF and catcher, that instead of sitting in the minors he would be a more versatile bench player and probably a steadier hitter, than either Shaw or Sandoval.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 9, 2016 8:59:20 GMT -5
Does anyone think the team would be willing to train Swihart at another position next year, maybe 1b or 3b? I know he has the athletic ability to play anywhere, and considering how quickly they moved him to the outfield this year, it seems that they probably value his bat more than his catching abilities. I'm just thinking that if he could play some infield on top of LF and catcher, that instead of sitting in the minors he would be a more versatile bench player and probably a steadier hitter, than either Shaw or Sandoval. They moved him to left in large part because they had a hole there. Swihart projects to potentially have a good bat for catcher, but it won't play nearly as well in an infield corner. Considering the amount of time he'll have missed due to injury, he'll likely need the reps in Triple-A to shake off the rust. Hopefully they learn from pushing the panic button and bringing up Vazquez so soon this year (although Vazquez at least hit in winter ball last year).
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Post by ryan24 on Sept 9, 2016 15:29:44 GMT -5
Does anyone think the team would be willing to train Swihart at another position next year, maybe 1b or 3b? I know he has the athletic ability to play anywhere, and considering how quickly they moved him to the outfield this year, it seems that they probably value his bat more than his catching abilities. I'm just thinking that if he could play some infield on top of LF and catcher, that instead of sitting in the minors he would be a more versatile bench player and probably a steadier hitter, than either Shaw or Sandoval. They moved him to left in large part because they had a hole there. Swihart projects to potentially have a good bat for catcher, but it won't play nearly as well in an infield corner. Considering the amount of time he'll have missed due to injury, he'll likely need the reps in Triple-A to shake off the rust. Hopefully they learn from pushing the panic button and bringing up Vazquez so soon this year (although Vazquez at least hit in winter ball last year). WOW right on target. Catching has been hit hard the last 2 years with injuries. I think next spring with what we know now, that leon and Vazquez are on the opening day roster. swihart is at AAA with some combination of romanoski, bulter, and holaday in the mix. Please Dave, do not rush the young guys again.
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 9, 2016 22:49:21 GMT -5
With Papi retiring, one approach could be to not have a dedicated DH and just try to have flexibility and depth. Swihart could be a part of that. Having two SH C, including one who can play other positions, provide a lot of flexibility, assuming that Leon is a decent hitter over the long haul. Leon would be the starter but could also get a lot of starts against RH P as a DH with Swihart doing the catching. Swihart would serve not only a backup C, but also as a spare OF and 1B.
With teams insisting on carrying 12 P (which a I hate), flexibility is important. Spend some money on a decent RH 3B - preferably one who can play other positions - to platoon with Shaw and you'd have C. Young, Holt, Swihart, and the RH 3B. Get a decent player for the remaining bench spot and you'd have a deep, flexible roster that lets the manager mix and match the lineup based on the other team's opposing P.
I'm thinking here of a late 1990s MFY approach. Just about everyone who got in a game was a solid Major League player. None of this Ryan LaMarre stuff going on.
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Post by adamoraz on Sept 10, 2016 0:28:52 GMT -5
With Papi retiring, one approach could be to not have a dedicated DH and just try to have flexibility and depth. Swihart could be a part of that. Having two SH C, including one who can play other positions, provide a lot of flexibility, assuming that Leon is a decent hitter over the long haul. Leon would be the starter but could also get a lot of starts against RH P as a DH with Swihart doing the catching. Swihart would serve not only a backup C, but also as a spare OF and 1B. With teams insisting on carrying 12 P (which a I hate), flexibility is important. Spend some money on a decent RH 3B - preferably one who can play other positions - to platoon with Shaw and you'd have C. Young, Holt, Swihart, and the RH 3B. Get a decent player for the remaining bench spot and you'd have a deep, flexible roster that lets the manager mix and match the lineup based on the other team's opposing P. I'm thinking here of a late 1990s MFY approach. Just about everyone who got in a game was a solid Major League player. None of this Ryan LaMarre stuff going on. Yeah that's kind of what I was thinking. Especially if they can't get a solid replacement for Papi. Even if they do though, I think it might be worth giving Swihart a look as a utility guy. He already said that he'd be happy with the utility role if it gets him back to the big leagues faster and I'm always a bit hesitant about having to many corner infield only guys clogging up roster spots and if Swihart could play some infield, some outfield and catch I think it would give them a lot more options. Besides, the speed with which they switched him from catcher to LF this season and the fact that they're having him prepare for next year as both a catcher and an outfielder, make me think that A. they have at least some questions about his ability to catch at the major league level and B. that they value his bat enough to find a place for him. If his bat projects best at catcher for a starting gig, then the next best option would seem to be a utility job.
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