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Post by bighead on Jan 7, 2013 22:04:42 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Jan 7, 2013 22:44:44 GMT -5
I always look forward to these since grading rather than just ranking lets you better evaluate a system. You get a better sense for the various tiers in a given system, can compare players across systems, and can compare different farm systems. I'm surprised Sickels has Cecchini so high. Sickels readily acknowledges that it's an aggressive ranking, but Cecchini has plenty of flaws (as noted in the Cecchini thread and the latest podcast)-- swing mechanics, power, and defense-- and to rank him on par with Bradley and Barnes is certainly bold. Lots of great stuff in the comments too. One poster calculates that the Red Sox would rank between the 8th and 11th farm systems in baseball, which sounds about right to me.
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Post by gatortough on Jan 7, 2013 22:49:30 GMT -5
www.minorleagueball.com/2013/1/7/3848710/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2013Sickels’ list is out, seems like a pretty good one for the Red Sox overall, and I think pretty thoughtful, as he is prone to be. A few thoughts: 1. I love the Kukuk nod at 20, I’m split between him and Margot for breakout player of the year in 2013 (If you can call Margot breakout after Mellen's trumpeting). I never understood why he hasn't received what I believe to be adequate attention since he had essentially the same scouting report as Owens after the draft. If he can get his off the field issues under control, which shouldn't be too hard (hopefully the DUI was a proper wake-up call for him) then he has a real shot at being a mid-rotation starter if not something more. 2. I like that Sickels is high on Cecchini, but if Cecchini is a B+ so is Webster, if anything I would switch the two, but it’s an interesting take. 3. I think Brian Johnson should have grabbed a B-. Call it homerism, but I’m hoping that switching to pitching full time coupled with what might be an uptick in velocity might lead his projection to be closer to that of a 3 starter, as opposed to just a ceiling.
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Post by amfox1 on Jan 8, 2013 7:28:07 GMT -5
[One poster calculates that the Red Sox would rank between the 8th and 11th farm systems in baseball, which sounds about right to me. Jim Callis ranks the Red Sox as the #5 farm system FYI,
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Post by bluechip on Jan 8, 2013 8:30:53 GMT -5
[One poster calculates that the Red Sox would rank between the 8th and 11th farm systems in baseball, which sounds about right to me. Jim Callis ranks the Red Sox as the #5 farm system FYI, Callis seems to be very bullish on the Red Sox. Even more than Sickels.
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Post by raftsox on Jan 8, 2013 9:42:51 GMT -5
Jim Callis ranks the Red Sox as the #5 farm system FYI, Callis seems to be very bullish on the Red Sox. Even more than Sickels. Callis is a self-proclaimed Red Sox fan. He's usually pretty good about staying objective, but I always keep that in the back of my mind.
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Post by elguapo on Jan 8, 2013 10:11:01 GMT -5
He's bullish on Workman, possibly as a starter. This is a big year for him, hitting the upper minors and turning 25, so I guess we'll see.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 8, 2013 19:11:24 GMT -5
I always like Sickels, even if I don't agree with him. He's willing to stick his neck out, make the case for why he's doing it, and then totally fine if it turns out he was wrong.
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Post by Guidas on Jan 8, 2013 19:45:27 GMT -5
He's bullish on Workman, possibly as a starter. This is a big year for him, hitting the upper minors and turning 25, so I guess we'll see. My impression of Workman in college with a chance to be a #3 during his peak years. He seemed to have the build and the stuff to merit a #4-5 and even though many here think he's ultimately a pen arm I'll stick with that. As for Sickles saying Kukuk best case projects to a Jon Lester type, that was exactly what I heard from a college coach I know who scouted him. Same basic caveat as Sickles, though the coach thought Kukuk had to approach and frame to improve rapidly, barring any injuries. Finally I still hold out hope for Britton who seemed to get his head into a better place as last year went on. Who knows with these guys - they are kind of like skittish thoroughbred race horses. But everything in there if he can just give into the joy of repetition.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jan 8, 2013 20:29:33 GMT -5
I love what Sickles is selling here. I love Kukuk breakout star 2013. I love what he said that there is a second wave of high end talent here. On our team our top 20 is deep. I love that the DSL team is showing some good talent also.
P.S. The MFY as always high on potential with nothing to show.
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Post by jioh on Jan 8, 2013 20:48:52 GMT -5
"Jim Callis @jimcallisba No. 20 with a bullet. @kyle41987: Will Manuel Margot be ranked in the #RedSox top 20?"
Just among "others" in Sickels
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Post by jmei on Jan 8, 2013 20:56:52 GMT -5
Mellen has been pimping Margot pretty hard this offseason, and as far as I know SoxProspects has been the main source touting him as a prospect to watch. Margot seems to be becoming a trendy breakout candidate on these lists, which shows you how much influence SoxProspects has amongst the national prospect writers.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,699
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Post by nomar on Jan 8, 2013 23:18:44 GMT -5
As it should. These are the people watching our guys the most. Great to see what a powerhouse this site has become in the world of scouting. We're lucky. Not many other teams have a site like this for fans to reference.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jan 9, 2013 11:32:15 GMT -5
As it should. These are the people watching our guys the most. Great to see what a powerhouse this site has become in the world of scouting. We're lucky. Not many other teams have a site like this for fans to reference. Boy is that the truth!! So fortunate for this site. Love hearing others opinions on our prospects.
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Post by soxcentral on Jan 9, 2013 12:40:44 GMT -5
I love what Sickles is selling here. I love Kukuk breakout star 2013. I love what he said that there is a second wave of high end talent here. On our team our top 20 is deep. I love that the DSL team is showing some good talent also.. I really like that second wave of potential as well. Interesting names from the Lowell/GCL/DSL rookie levels alone that I'll be following closely are: Montas Kukuk Mercedes Margot Lin Suarez Flores Heras Rijo Romero Pretty interesting already, and we haven't even factored in 2013 draft picks.
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Post by borisman on Jan 9, 2013 15:31:04 GMT -5
I love what Sickles is selling here. I love Kukuk breakout star 2013. I love what he said that there is a second wave of high end talent here. On our team our top 20 is deep. I love that the DSL team is showing some good talent also.. I really like that second wave of potential as well. Interesting names from the Lowell/GCL/DSL rookie levels alone that I'll be following closely are: Montas Kukuk Mercedes Margot Lin Suarez Flores Heras Rijo Romero Pretty interesting already, and we haven't even factored in 2013 draft picks. That's like the fourth wave of potential you have listed there ;D
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 13, 2013 17:14:18 GMT -5
The only issue I have with Sickels sometimes is that it seems like he sticks his neck out there for the sake of sticking his neck out there. He makes a TON of "sleeper picks" and yes, sometimes a couple of them pan out, but he whiffs on a bunch of them. For example, look at what he says about Cecchini: "Grade B+: Borderline B. I assume this grade may surprise people, but I'm thinking he will start to show more power to go with his OBP skills, speed, and greatly improved defense. I don't always play it safe with the grades."
Maybe this is just lost in having such a short writeup, but it seems like he has no particular reason to think that Cecchini will start to show more power, and he certainly hasn't seen him in person that I'm aware of. Yeah, if Cecchini were seen by more scouts as more certain to develop some power, I'd be just as bullish on him as Sickels is. This seems more like hedging a bet based on a gut instinct that isn't based on anything concrete. Not really a fan of that kind of thing - at least have some kind of scouting or statistical hook to hang that hunch on.
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Post by charliezink16 on Jan 13, 2013 20:33:16 GMT -5
Mellen has been pimping Margot pretty hard this offseason, and as far as I know SoxProspects has been the main source touting him as a prospect to watch. Margot seems to be becoming a trendy breakout candidate on these lists, which shows you how much influence SoxProspects has amongst the national prospect writers. And for good reason. It was Chris Mellen, I believe, who talked up Bogaerts following his DSL season and ranked him as our #10 prospect before he broke out.
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Post by jioh on Jan 13, 2013 22:12:19 GMT -5
.... For example, look at what [Sickels] says about Cecchini: "... I'm thinking he will start to show more power to go with his OBP skills, speed, and greatly improved defense. I don't always play it safe with the grades." Maybe this is just lost in having such a short writeup, but it seems like he has no particular reason to think that Cecchini will start to show more power, and he certainly hasn't seen him in person that I'm aware of. Yeah, if Cecchini were seen by more scouts as more certain to develop some power, I'd be just as bullish on him as Sickels is. .... Maybe he looked at the 38 doubles in his first full season, and read somewhere that he has "Excellent batspeed and hip rotation in swing mechanics. Upward swing path through hitting zone and creates solid extension to produce backspin when squaring offerings up. Shows ability to drive the ball to all fields with lift. Slightly above-average power potential."
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Post by bentossaurus on Jan 14, 2013 13:27:41 GMT -5
Maybe this is just lost in having such a short writeup, but it seems like he has no particular reason to think that Cecchini will start to show more power, and he certainly hasn't seen him in person that I'm aware of. Yeah, if Cecchini were seen by more scouts as more certain to develop some power, I'd be just as bullish on him as Sickels is. This seems more like hedging a bet based on a gut instinct that isn't based on anything concrete. Not really a fan of that kind of thing - at least have some kind of scouting or statistical hook to hang that hunch on. He had been criticized in his methodology and for playing too safe a few days before if I'm not mistaken. Also these are just some bulletpoints he publishes online, the book has a broader description to reveal why that grade. Still, he does play it very much by stats and contacts.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 15, 2013 6:08:41 GMT -5
Sickels just updated the list - anyone notice any changes?
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Post by jioh on Jan 15, 2013 7:00:00 GMT -5
Sickels just updated the list - anyone notice any changes? But he still starts by this saying "this grade may surprise people," which not makes less sense.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 15, 2013 15:56:45 GMT -5
Sickels just updated the list - anyone notice any changes? There were a few fixes but nothing major. One of my favorites is still flying so far under the radar, he's going to need a backhoe to dig himself out. He's nowhere in site on any of these lists. After his .283/.358/.505 line at Greenville as a 20-year old - including 48 XBHs in only 444 PAs - the Sox put Vasquez on a rocket sled to Salem and then Portland. While it was a bit of a rough ride, he made it to AA as at the age of 21. He's got serious defensive chops, and his plate discipline is very good as shown by his 10% BB rate which he's been hovering around at every stop in his minor league career. He does have a 20% K rate, but given that he has some power and patience that's not unexpected, and it's held steady as well. Given the importance attached to a catcher's defensive and game-calling skills, I hope the guy gets some of the props he deserves at some point. I'm wondering if he doesn't have some Molina in his gene pool.
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Post by bentossaurus on Jan 15, 2013 17:15:43 GMT -5
Sickels just updated the list - anyone notice any changes? Cecchini got downgraded a notch.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 15, 2013 18:07:11 GMT -5
Sickels just updated the list - anyone notice any changes? But he still starts by this saying "this grade may surprise people," which not makes less sense. Just to be clear, I wasn't being snarky about Cecchini - I'm in Europe and didn't remember anything from the first list.
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