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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 18, 2016 19:21:25 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: #RedSox senior VP of baseball operations Frank Wren unlikely to become GM. Happy in current position. Finally, some good news....
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,706
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Post by nomar on Oct 18, 2016 21:25:57 GMT -5
Interested in who replaces Tippett. This isn't a good look for the org, though.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 18, 2016 22:59:25 GMT -5
I get that, but you weren't disappointed in the season he had? I couldn't care less. It's not like he had a bad season. He struck out nearly a batter an inning at age 18 in full season ball. His BABIP was a little high at .353. I'm not going to worry about him because his ERA wasn't otherworldly or something. I don't care about ERA. It's his whip of 1.385 and 115 hits in 108.1 innings that worries me. Even at his age those are not numbers I expect from "Type of pitching prospect who doesn't come along very often". With his advance stuff at his age I never thought he should get hit like that.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 18, 2016 23:08:48 GMT -5
I couldn't care less. It's not like he had a bad season. He struck out nearly a batter an inning at age 18 in full season ball. His BABIP was a little high at .353. I'm not going to worry about him because his ERA wasn't otherworldly or something. I don't care about ERA. It's his whip of 1.385 and 115 hits in 108.1 innings that worries me. Even at his age those are not numbers I expect from "Type of pitching prospect who doesn't come along very often". With his advance stuff at his age I never thought he should get hit like that. You will give up a lot of "hits" when you are giving up ground balls to A ball defenders. If you'd notice too, he said Espinoza had a high Babip. It was a flukey bad year for him but he still brought the strikeouts and the ground balls (the thing Espinoza can control more than Babip). You just sound really ill informed if you think Espinoza isn't a top 5 pitching prospect and make him seem less than what he is.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 18, 2016 23:14:43 GMT -5
If that's his point, well yea they each have one less year of control. You would also get less for what we gave up. Even if they both magically had an extra year of control, they wouldn't approach the return they gave up for him. What is so hard to understand about this? Kimbrel is obviously on the decline as many expected and Pomeranz looks like he's a pitch away from TJS. I look at Kimbrel's numbers and the only thing that's was way off this year was his walks. It's not like guys were teeing off him, not even close. I chalk this year up to playing in a market like Boston for the first time. He struggled just like Porcello did and look at how that turned out the next year. Look at Price, a guy that spent most of his playing career in AL East he struggled badly in his first year in Boston. I expect both will be just fine next year, we all knew that more than likely Pomeranz would run into a wall at some point due to innings, that's not a surprise. But you can't resist saying his value is lower at this very second. Sure it is, but so is the package of players that we traded away, which you keep overlooking and that's my whole point. There's a reason people say most trades need 3-5 years before you fully understand who got the better deal. But you guys just can't resist thinking your right before you know you truly are right. How quickly people forget how good Pomeranz was before the massive increase in innings caught up to him!
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Oct 18, 2016 23:32:38 GMT -5
Letting go of Theo is still the dumbest thing we ever did.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 18, 2016 23:32:43 GMT -5
I don't care about ERA. It's his whip of 1.385 and 115 hits in 108.1 innings that worries me. Even at his age those are not numbers I expect from "Type of pitching prospect who doesn't come along very often". With his advance stuff at his age I never thought he should get hit like that. You will give up a lot of "hits" when you are giving up ground balls to A ball defenders. If you'd notice too, he said Espinoza had a high Babip. It was a flukey bad year for him but he still brought the strikeouts and the ground balls (the thing Espinoza can control more than Babip). You just sound really ill informed if you think Espinoza isn't a top 5 pitching prospect and make him seem less than what he is. It's a fluke or it's a bad sign. No one knows. You got stats that show his A ball team was very bad defensively? Or was it because he was getting hit hard? You can't just look at BABIP and blame it on the D. Do you know the one thing in common the greatest flops that all top prospects share? They were guys rated on potential and upside and not stats. I like AE upside, but top 5 pitching prospect I wouldn't go that far just yet. That's the problem today with prospect rankings, they don't want to miss out on the next stud, so they move the upside guys way up the rankings before they have the stats to back up that ranking.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 18, 2016 23:37:27 GMT -5
Letting go of Theo is still the dumbest thing we ever did. Not even close to us trading Babe Ruth to the Yankees.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 18, 2016 23:45:22 GMT -5
You will give up a lot of "hits" when you are giving up ground balls to A ball defenders. If you'd notice too, he said Espinoza had a high Babip. It was a flukey bad year for him but he still brought the strikeouts and the ground balls (the thing Espinoza can control more than Babip). You just sound really ill informed if you think Espinoza isn't a top 5 pitching prospect and make him seem less than what he is. It's a fluke or it's a bad sign. No one knows. You got stats that show his A ball team was very bad defensively? Or was it because he was getting hit hard? You can't just look at BABIP and blame it on the D. Do you know the one thing in common the greatest flops that all top prospects share? They were guys rated on potential and upside and not stats. I like AE upside, but top 5 pitching prospect I wouldn't go that far just yet. That's the problem today with prospect rankings, they don't want to miss out on the next stud, so they move the upside guys way up the rankings before they have the stats to back up that ranking. Do I got stats to show A ball players are bad defensively? No. Every A ball team is bad defensively for the most part. Flukey is what it was. I'm guessing you have never watched a A ball game before. Starting to question Umass' graduate program....
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 18, 2016 23:56:08 GMT -5
It's a fluke or it's a bad sign. No one knows. You got stats that show his A ball team was very bad defensively? Or was it because he was getting hit hard? You can't just look at BABIP and blame it on the D. Do you know the one thing in common the greatest flops that all top prospects share? They were guys rated on potential and upside and not stats. I like AE upside, but top 5 pitching prospect I wouldn't go that far just yet. That's the problem today with prospect rankings, they don't want to miss out on the next stud, so they move the upside guys way up the rankings before they have the stats to back up that ranking. Do I got stats to show A ball players are bad defensively? No. Every A ball team is bad defensively for the most part. Flukey is what it was. I'm guessing you have never watched a A ball game before. Starting to question Umass' graduate program.... That same team D allowed Raudes to have a .313 BABIP and Gerson Bautista to have a .246 BABIP. They must have only sucked when AE was pitching.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 19, 2016 0:03:13 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 19, 2016 0:21:25 GMT -5
That article was dated before sketchy reports of Preller and before the forearm tightness at the end of the season this pasr season. If Pomeranz has Tommy John surgery next year, will you still defend it? I doubt it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Oct 19, 2016 1:42:19 GMT -5
So let's go over what has happened since Dombrowski took over the front office-
Two GM's have left in Ben Cherrington and Mike Hazen to find other jobs in MLB (Ben waited a year before doing so).
The main analytics director has left.
Dave has hired his buddy in Frank Wren as the vice president of the Sox.
It's like no one wants to work with this guy except for his old pals. Ohh and as extra kick in the nuts, Dave has kept one of the worst in game managers in baseball during his whole tenure as a president.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 19, 2016 6:35:38 GMT -5
Letting go of Theo is still the dumbest thing we ever did. Not even close to us trading Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Nanette begs to differ.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 19, 2016 7:40:48 GMT -5
Even if they both magically had an extra year of control, they wouldn't approach the return they gave up for him. What is so hard to understand about this? Kimbrel is obviously on the decline as many expected and Pomeranz looks like he's a pitch away from TJS. I look at Kimbrel's numbers and the only thing that's was way off this year was his walks. It's not like guys were teeing off him, not even close. I chalk this year up to playing in a market like Boston for the first time. He struggled just like Porcello did and look at how that turned out the next year. Look at Price, a guy that spent most of his playing career in AL East he struggled badly in his first year in Boston. I expect both will be just fine next year, we all knew that more than likely Pomeranz would run into a wall at some point due to innings, that's not a surprise. But you can't resist saying his value is lower at this very second. Sure it is, but so is the package of players that we traded away, which you keep overlooking and that's my whole point. There's a reason people say most trades need 3-5 years before you fully understand who got the better deal. But you guys just can't resist thinking your right before you know you truly are right. How quickly people forget how good Pomeranz was before the massive increase in innings caught up to him! So wait a minute, Kimbrel and Pomeranz, major league players, shouldn't have their performance this year held against them when evaluating these trades, because first year in Boston/innings. But Anderson Espinoza, one of the youngest players in a full-season league, has seen his value decrease because his ERA was a little high this year. C'mon man.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 19, 2016 7:45:09 GMT -5
Letting go of Theo is still the dumbest thing we ever did. Not even close to us trading Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Give it a few years.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 19, 2016 7:46:57 GMT -5
So let's go over what has happened since Dombrowski took over the front office- Two GM's have left in Ben Cherrington and Mike Hazen to find other jobs in MLB (Ben waited a year before doing so). The main analytics director has left. Dave has hired his buddy in Frank Wren as the vice president of the Sox. It's like no one wants to work with this guy except for his old pals. Ohh and as extra kick in the nuts, Dave has kept one of the worst in game managers in baseball during his whole tenure as a president. John Henry has really done a terrible job of identifying who should run his team and how. He had the greatest baseball executive of this generation, who's dream job was to run the Red Sox, and somehow he managed that situation to a point where Frank freakin' Wren has a say in what your team does. That's just spectacularly bad.
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Post by joshmoody23 on Oct 19, 2016 9:53:22 GMT -5
I would love to have Jason Varitek and Alex Cora in the same dugout.
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Post by joshmoody23 on Oct 19, 2016 9:56:20 GMT -5
Chili Davis is my guy, as long as he is in the dugout next year. I will be excited. I do think Alex Cora would do a very good job. I also love me some Jason Varitek. I am not a Farrell guy at all and wouldn't mind if he was "promoted" to GM. Very unlikely.
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Post by mgoetze on Oct 19, 2016 11:48:02 GMT -5
Interested in who replaces Tippett. I'm not. I mean, who cares who's writing the reports as long as they go straight into Dombrowski's trash can?
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,706
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Post by nomar on Oct 19, 2016 12:38:12 GMT -5
Interested in who replaces Tippett. I'm not. I mean, who cares who's writing the reports as long as they go straight into Dombrowski's trash can? Lol fair enough!
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Post by lancect on Oct 19, 2016 13:27:27 GMT -5
Could it be possible that Farrell takes the GM job and they retain Lovullo as manager?
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Post by burythehammer on Oct 19, 2016 13:37:50 GMT -5
Could it be possible that Farrell takes the GM job and they retain Lovullo as manager? Don't take this personally, because there are people who get paid to cover the Red Sox pushing this theory, but every time I hear it I want to drive forks into my eyes and ears. The fact that John Farrell spent a couple of years doing what was essentially a baseball Adult Education Course in Cleveland does not remotely qualify him to be a GM, even a nominal one like the role here would be.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 19, 2016 14:33:22 GMT -5
Interested in who replaces Tippett. I'm not. I mean, who cares who's writing the reports as long as they go straight into Dombrowski's trash can? You have any sources for this bull****? The "DD hates analytics" meme is run is course since we have no proof that its true
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,706
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Post by nomar on Oct 19, 2016 14:46:44 GMT -5
I'm not. I mean, who cares who's writing the reports as long as they go straight into Dombrowski's trash can? You have any sources for this bull****? The "DD hates analytics" meme is run is course since we have no proof that its true There was a good amount of sarcasm in there. Your crusade against anti-Farrell or FO posts has brought you to the other side of the hyperbole.
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