cutz
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Posts: 2,321
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Post by cutz on Oct 7, 2016 18:12:47 GMT -5
Damn, i'm missing a good matchup of two 4-0 teams, playing tonight in high school football. For this?>LOL
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Post by incandenza on Oct 7, 2016 18:13:04 GMT -5
Soooo much magical thinking in this thread. The Red Sox aren't playing with heart. They've taken their feet off the pedal. There's just a tarnish to their souls... Well that's just what it looks like when you lose. They easily could've won yesterday if one or two of those Cleveland pop fly homers didn't go out. And this game could be 1-0 if not for all the BABIPing.
Anyway, it's not fate or some moral deficiency or something. The Red Sox might lose today and then come back and win 3 in a row (I give it a 1 in 8 chance!), with Big Papi going 8-14 with 3 HRs. Then suddenly their socks are bloody and they're drunk on whiskey and everyone just knows that it was meant to be in Papi's farewell season.
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Post by dnfl333 on Oct 7, 2016 18:17:48 GMT -5
Leyland just picked up his phone
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Post by kingofthetrill on Oct 7, 2016 18:25:26 GMT -5
This is David Price's 9th postseason start and he still doesn't have a win. (His 2 wins were in relief). This will drop him to 2-8 in the postseason overall, with an ERA over 5 in 65+ innings.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,259
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Post by radiohix on Oct 7, 2016 18:42:26 GMT -5
Pedey gets a meat ball and swings through it. So yeah, we got unlucky so far in this serie but we hit like s*** too
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Post by dcsoxfan on Oct 7, 2016 19:00:48 GMT -5
There is always next year Just a reminder: no Papi next year. And no Margot or Espinoza. I'm not giving up hope yet; the last two times the Red Sox faced triple elimination games against the Indians, those series turned out pretty okay. However, hopefully our owner and GM will learn from this. Once upon a time when only two teams made it to the post-season and they both had a 50% chance of winning, it made sense to trade part of your future to go for it when you had the chance. Today, when one out of every three teams makes it to the post-season, but you have to get by three or even four opponents in short series to win it all, you should never be all in any year unless you have an aging team and are approaching a rebuild. Because you just never know when you're team will stop hitting (or hitting with RISP like the Rangers who were 2-18 today)
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 7, 2016 19:11:39 GMT -5
It's always darkest before the dawn. See you Sunday.
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Post by bosox81 on Oct 7, 2016 19:42:25 GMT -5
Just a reminder: no Papi next year. And no Margot or Espinoza. I'm not giving up hope yet; the last two times the Red Sox faced triple elimination games against the Indians, those series turned out pretty okay. However, hopefully our owner and GM will learn from this. Once upon a time when only two teams made it to the post-season and they both had a 50% chance of winning, it made sense to trade part of your future to go for it when you had the chance. Today, when one out of every three teams makes it to the post-season, but you have to get by three or even four opponents in short series to win it all, you should never be all in any year unless you have an aging team and are approaching a rebuild. Because you just never know when you're team will stop hitting (or hitting with RISP like the Rangers who were 2-18 today) Excellent post
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Post by ray88h66 on Oct 7, 2016 19:51:06 GMT -5
Yesterday was a tough loss, but great game. Today was awful.
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Post by soxcentral on Oct 7, 2016 19:54:39 GMT -5
In the post game Pedro Martinez said the reason Price got hit is because Cleveland knew he'd be throwing strikes so they stayed aggressive. Also said he kept everything down so hitters never had to change eye level. Seems like correctable stuff, if he gets another chance this year,
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 7, 2016 19:56:40 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 7, 2016 19:56:41 GMT -5
What's really bad was that was the perfect victory for Cleveland. They didn't have to use Miller or Allen at all. They're all set up as they get two days of rest and can be utilized in Game 3 the way they were in Game 1. So essentially the Sox have about 5 innings on Sunday to beat up Tomlin, and that's assuming Buchholz pitches well, which is a questionable assumption.
And a couple of other unsettling things are that if the plan is to now shift Porcello to Game 4 and pitch Price for Game 5, how much faith can there be in David Price? And add in that Kluber pitched very well for a guy with injury concerns. Even if it got back to Cleveland for Game 5, a matchup of Kluber at home versus David Price doesn't inspire confidence.
Maybe after today's outing the Sox rethink things and stay with E-Rod for a potential Game 4 and Porcello for a potential Game 5? The way they're going I wouldn't be surprised to see the season done on Sunday. The only chance they got is to score runs like crazy.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Oct 7, 2016 20:14:09 GMT -5
It's not over til' it's over.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Oct 7, 2016 20:16:09 GMT -5
It's not over til' it's over. I remember 1999 and 2007.
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Post by telluricrook on Oct 7, 2016 20:54:44 GMT -5
There always gonna be in it til its over, til its over, but its far from over.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Oct 7, 2016 20:55:08 GMT -5
The elephants in the room that seem to never get discussed - the extent to which Bogaerts has simply looked lost for much of the second half of the season...the lack of following through on the wind up adjustment with Price - the issue that Pedey caught looking at film. Price modified his wind up, he did much better - then right back to the ineffective wind up. To a lesser extent, JBJ's returning inability to make contact at all. Three pretty big factors right there to the post winning streak swoon. Yet - nothing - not in papers, not on websites. There are some concrete issues plaguing this team right now, and since the end of the big winning streak. And yet - no talk about it. Seems to me you can't just switch on success - and that is what the Sox thought that they could do. Turns out to be harder than they thought. Pretty deflating - and yes, they could win the next 1-2-3 games. But that wouldn't fix the fundamental flaw to this team - bizarre streakiness.
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Post by telluricrook on Oct 7, 2016 21:00:45 GMT -5
Hmm. The two starting pitchers in Chicago tonight were both long term options for the Red Sox recently.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 7, 2016 21:22:43 GMT -5
The elephants in the room that seem to never get discussed - the extent to which Bogaerts has simply looked lost for much of the second half of the season...the lack of following through on the wind up adjustment with Price - the issue that Pedey caught looking at film. Price modified his wind up, he did much better - then right back to the ineffective wind up. To a lesser extent, JBJ's returning inability to make contact at all. Three pretty big factors right there to the post winning streak swoon. Yet - nothing - not in papers, not on websites. There are some concrete issues plaguing this team right now, and since the end of the big winning streak. And yet - no talk about it. Seems to me you can't just switch on success - and that is what the Sox thought that they could do. Turns out to be harder than they thought. Pretty deflating - and yes, they could win the next 1-2-3 games. But that wouldn't fix the fundamental flaw to this team - bizarre streakiness. Great post. For all the talk of 1999, 2004, and 2007, this team could easily go the way of the 1988 or 1990 or 1995 or 2005 or 2009 Red Sox - swept away playing their worst ball of the year. Teams can come back from 0-2 but way more often than not, they lose. That's what's staring them in the face. Buchholz is a streaky pitcher who could spectacularly implode. OTOH, it's entirely possible the Sox are due to break out offensively, and somebody like Betts and Ortiz have big games, but you're right about Bogaerts and Bradley. Bogaerts has been making very weak contact and JBJ hasn't been making contact at all. Basically the Sox have to beat up on Tomlin (and Bauer) early and often, Porcello and Price then have to pitch masterpieces after that while the Sox offense has to produce. If it's a battle of the bullpens, that wouldn't bode too well, especially with Kimbrel and his issues, and the strength of that Indians bullpen.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 7, 2016 22:10:23 GMT -5
Meanwhile as David Price continues to pitch like the anti-Curt Schilling, Jon Lester is spinning a beauty against the Giants.
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Post by soxfan06 on Oct 7, 2016 22:24:45 GMT -5
Anyone who didn't expect that from Price hasn't been watching baseball for long.
Shame we decided to pin our hope to that softee. I am absolutely more confident going in to Buchholz start than I was Price's.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 7, 2016 22:29:29 GMT -5
Anyone who didn't expect that from Price hasn't been watching baseball for long. Shame we decided to pin our hope to that softee. I am absolutely more confident going in to Buchholz start than I was Price's. I wouldn't go quite that far. This softee stopped the Red Sox cold in 2008 when they were rallying in Game 7 and was the man on the mound when the Rays won their only pennant so it's not like he's totally incapable of rising to the occasion when everything is on the line - at least as a reliever anyways. That said I don't have too much faith in Price - the record is what the record is.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Oct 7, 2016 22:44:02 GMT -5
Why can't we get guys like Jon Lester?
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Post by larrycook on Oct 7, 2016 23:24:51 GMT -5
In the post game Pedro Martinez said the reason Price got hit is because Cleveland knew he'd be throwing strikes so they stayed aggressive. Also said he kept everything down so hitters never had to change eye level. Seems like correctable stuff, if he gets another chance this year, Seems to me that he has always pitched down in the zone. The big difference I see is in late August he was snapping pitches off to create a late break that was keeping hitters off balance. Now he is not finishing and no late movement. Maybe after 230 innings his arm and legs are tired?
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Post by dcsoxfan on Oct 8, 2016 0:27:25 GMT -5
The elephants in the room that seem to never get discussed - the extent to which Bogaerts has simply looked lost for much of the second half of the season...the lack of following through on the wind up adjustment with Price - the issue that Pedey caught looking at film. Price modified his wind up, he did much better - then right back to the ineffective wind up. To a lesser extent, JBJ's returning inability to make contact at all. Three pretty big factors right there to the post winning streak swoon. Yet - nothing - not in papers, not on websites. There are some concrete issues plaguing this team right now, and since the end of the big winning streak. And yet - no talk about it. Seems to me you can't just switch on success - and that is what the Sox thought that they could do. Turns out to be harder than they thought. Pretty deflating - and yes, they could win the next 1-2-3 games. But that wouldn't fix the fundamental flaw to this team - bizarre streakiness. Xander Bogaerts is a 23 year old who had a 3.7 bWAR season and Jackie Bradley Jr. is a 26 year old who had a 5.3 bWAR season. As much as we would have liked each of these players to have been as good the second half of the season as they were the first, that was most likely not a reasonable thing to hope for. Bradley Jr. probably isn't a 5 WAR player on a consistent basis, and while I think Bogaerts will eventually be he's not there yet. Both were at least as good as we had any right to hope; I find it hard to be overly critical of either. The Red Sox have just lost consecutive road games, nothing more and nothing less. It's unfortunate that they did so during a best of five elimination series, but it's not really fundamentally any different than any other pair of consecutive losses. They are now 45 - 29 in post-season games over the last decade and a half. If there is an elephant in the room, it's that the Red Sox took on a quarter of a billion dollars in salary commitments and traded a substantial portion of its farm system, including half its pre-season top six prospects and two elite prospects, for three players, Kimbrel, Price and Pomeranz, who added less than 5 bWAR to a team that led its division by 5 games when it stopped playing meaningful games. Given that those three players made a combined salary of over $40 million this year, which could have been used to purchase a few more wins, it's hard not to feel that the Red Sox could easily have achieved as much as they did without any of those three players, that barring a major reversal in their fortunes this series, they will have traded away potentially a large portion of their future to accomplish no more --and maybe less -- than they would have with more patience. That is the elephant in the room.
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Post by dnfl333 on Oct 8, 2016 6:08:36 GMT -5
Vintage Lester
Thanks Larry, Ben, John and Tom
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