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2016-2017 Red Sox Offseason (Non-Manager) Discussion
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 10, 2016 8:34:42 GMT -5
In the past the tax was on the amount you're over the tax so now you're telling me it's on the entire payroll?
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Post by fan72 on Dec 10, 2016 8:44:19 GMT -5
In the past the tax was on the amount you're over the tax so now you're telling me it's on the entire payroll? You are right it's based on the amount it is over not on your entire payroll. This did not change.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2016 8:53:24 GMT -5
Why is staying under the tax line such a big deal this year? I know they signed a new CBA and I'm not up to speed on it so I figured one of you may know. How bad are the penalties? I mean there is a very good team here and I'd hate for them to not go the extra mile for minimal reasons. The penalties are much bigger and make it closer to a hard cap. They at least want to reset the tax rate for next year. Not only is it a financial tax, but it changes the draft picks given up if you sign someone who has a pick attached.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2016 9:31:31 GMT -5
I find it really funny that the Red Sox won't let Josh Rutledge chose where he wants to go anymore.
I mean really they trade for him in 2015. They put him on the 60 day DL for most of 2016 (even though I guess he did have knee surgery, so he really was hurt). Then they release him in November so he could sign a minor league contract with the Rockies. Then they select him 2 weeks later in the Rule 5 draft, which I didn't even know was possible.
I'm sure Rutledge is happy because he has a major league job again but he must be confused by the Sox mixed signals here.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 10, 2016 10:52:51 GMT -5
Sure if another team wants to give him a better chance at playing everyday he's most likely going there. If we trade Buchholz we can offer him a good size deal, like Moreland just got. For me it's telling no team would traded for him, so Twins release him rather than pay him 8-9 million. He might jump on a 5.5 million deal rather than wait to see if an opening or opportunity opens up. It's also not a lock that Sandoval can bounce back or he might get injured. So chances are decent he gets a lot of playing time. Its probably not happening, but it would be awesome to have Plouffe as insurance for Sandoval. Maybe even someone that could platoon with Sandoval if need be. I'm not going to break the bank on a platoon option at third base. I doubt the Sox would too. There's no point in offering Plouffe more than 2-3 million to come and be a platoon option if he'd like. I'd rather save my money on a trade option at the trade deadline or better yet for David Ortiz if he ever changes his mind if the Sox are rolling into July and he feels like coming back at one last chance at a ring. These might look like famous last words but David Ortiz isn't coming back. His legs are absolutely shot. I doubt at this point that he'd want to put himself physically through the pain it would take to get him where he needs to be. David Ortiz is going to be a fan rooting for the Red Sox like the rest of us. I'm sure we'll see plenty of him - from throwing out the first ball on opening day, I'd guess, to having his number retired, and if the Red Sox do indeed go far in the World Series, he'll be throwing out that first ball, too. It wouldn't shock me to see the Red Sox have to go after a hitter at the end of July if Moreland tanks and Travis doesn't set the world on fire in Pawtucket. The Red Sox, I'm sure, are really, really hoping that Johnson gets healthy and Owens turns a corner. They'd be good trade bait if that happens.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Dec 10, 2016 10:54:50 GMT -5
Sorry if it has already been discussed on this board and I missed it, but does anyone know where the Red Sox stand as to getting under the salary cap for next year? Would trading Pomeranz do it or would it take trading Buchholz? I think there are significant benefits in getting under the cap for one year before going over it again and this year seems like it might be their best shot at getting under. Here's Alex Speier's newsletter from the other day: Thanks. Doesn't that influence which starting pitcher you can trade? If it took trading Buchholz to get under the cap, then I think the Red Sox would have incentive to do that. However, if they can trade Pomeranz and Abad and get under the cap and trading those two brings a better return, wouldn't you want to do that instead? I just do not see why the Red Sox would want to commit themselves to having 4 left-handed starting pitchers in their starting rotation for the next several years, particularly since they play half of their games at Fenway. It would seem to me that trading Pomeranz for a right-handed starting pitching prospect who is a year or two away would be ideal - help restock the fan system, provide a little balance for the starting rotation, and get under the cap. Instead, I hear they may trade Buchholz which I think gets you less of a return since he is only under costar for 1 more year.Maybe this belongs more in the starting pitching for 2017 thread and if so I apologize, but I do not understand why management would want to trade Buchholz instead of trading Pomeranz.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 10, 2016 10:59:29 GMT -5
Here's Alex Speier's newsletter from the other day: Thanks. Doesn't that influence which starting pitcher you can trade? If it took trading Buchholz to get under the cap, then I think the Red Sox would have incentive to do that. However, if they can trade Pomeranz and Abad and get under the cap and trading those two brings a better return, wouldn't you want to do that instead? I just do not see why the Red Sox would want to commit themselves to having 4 left-handed starting pitchers in their starting rotation for the next several years, particularly since they play half of their games at Fenway. It would seem to me that trading Pomeranz for a right-handed starting pitching prospect who is a year or two away would be ideal - help restock the fan system, provide a little balance for the starting rotation, and get under the cap. Instead, I hear they may trade Buchholz which I think gets you less of a return since he is only under costar for 1 more year.Maybe this belongs more in the starting pitching for 2017 thread and if so I apologize, but I do not understand why management would want to trade Buchholz instead of trading Pomeranz. One advantage would be that dealing Buchholz would open up enough space so that if the Red Sox need to take on some salary in a July 31st deal, they can do so and have that wiggle room. I don't think dealing Abad and Pomeranz creates enough wiggle room. I do agree with your sentiment though, but I question how much Pomeranz is worth in a deal right now. His elbow is a question mark. Abad certainly isn't worth much. He only cost the Red Sox a fringe prospect in Pat Light and after Abad's bad performance, he'd probably fetch organizational fodder at this point. At this point I don't know if there's a huge difference in value between Pomeranz and Buchholz when it comes to trade value.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2016 11:44:59 GMT -5
I'm not going to break the bank on a platoon option at third base. I doubt the Sox would too. There's no point in offering Plouffe more than 2-3 million to come and be a platoon option if he'd like. I'd rather save my money on a trade option at the trade deadline or better yet for David Ortiz if he ever changes his mind if the Sox are rolling into July and he feels like coming back at one last chance at a ring. These might look like famous last words but David Ortiz isn't coming back. His legs are absolutely shot. I doubt at this point that he'd want to put himself physically through the pain it would take to get him where he needs to be. David Ortiz is going to be a fan rooting for the Red Sox like the rest of us. I'm sure we'll see plenty of him - from throwing out the first ball on opening day, I'd guess, to having his number retired, and if the Red Sox do indeed go far in the World Series, he'll be throwing out that first ball, too. It wouldn't shock me to see the Red Sox have to go after a hitter at the end of July if Moreland tanks and Travis doesn't set the world on fire in Pawtucket. The Red Sox, I'm sure, are really, really hoping that Johnson gets healthy and Owens turns a corner. They'd be good trade bait if that happens. I don't know, Ortiz has to be on the retired list for at least 60 days anyways but I can seriously see the guy taking a Clemens or Pedro route and comeback in July for one last run at a title. Maybe it's just me, and also the fact that recently he was "thinking."
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2016 11:52:37 GMT -5
Here's Alex Speier's newsletter from the other day: I just do not see why the Red Sox would want to commit themselves to having 4 left-handed starting pitchers in their starting rotation for the next several years, particularly since they play half of their games at Fenway. Because this is the four best starters the Sox have, no matter what hand they throw from (plus Porcello). The Dodgers made the playoffs last year with nearly everyone in their rotation being left-handed last year. Clay Buchholz is the worst pitcher on this pitching staff and is only signed for one year at a lot of money for a 6th starter at 13.5 million. Pomeranz comes with 2 years of control for less money each year. The only move that makes sense imo is a Clay Buchholz trade.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2016 11:59:58 GMT -5
I hope the Sox trade Abad too. That would open up even more room to spend at the trade deadline if need be. I don't know why they tendered him a contract to begin with, but this is a argument for another day I guess.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 10, 2016 17:10:52 GMT -5
These might look like famous last words but David Ortiz isn't coming back. His legs are absolutely shot. I doubt at this point that he'd want to put himself physically through the pain it would take to get him where he needs to be. David Ortiz is going to be a fan rooting for the Red Sox like the rest of us. I'm sure we'll see plenty of him - from throwing out the first ball on opening day, I'd guess, to having his number retired, and if the Red Sox do indeed go far in the World Series, he'll be throwing out that first ball, too. It wouldn't shock me to see the Red Sox have to go after a hitter at the end of July if Moreland tanks and Travis doesn't set the world on fire in Pawtucket. The Red Sox, I'm sure, are really, really hoping that Johnson gets healthy and Owens turns a corner. They'd be good trade bait if that happens. I don't know, Ortiz has to be on the retired list for at least 60 days anyways but I can seriously see the guy taking a Clemens or Pedro route and comeback in July for one last run at a title. Maybe it's just me, and also the fact that recently he was "thinking." When he was "thinking" he was joking.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 10, 2016 17:21:19 GMT -5
I don't know, Ortiz has to be on the retired list for at least 60 days anyways but I can seriously see the guy taking a Clemens or Pedro route and comeback in July for one last run at a title. Maybe it's just me, and also the fact that recently he was "thinking." When he was "thinking" he was joking. I'm not sure about that, it'll be brought up all season. One say he might not be joking or maybe you're right and he's done and the Sox have to trade for a better hitter. All I know is that getting Sale at least opens the door a little bit.
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Post by Coreno on Dec 10, 2016 22:04:51 GMT -5
Peg leg isnt walking through that door.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 11, 2016 8:53:27 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Dec 11, 2016 12:29:01 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 11, 2016 12:42:08 GMT -5
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 11, 2016 12:47:38 GMT -5
Thought this was a funny quote - assume the writer meant 'traded for' instead of 'acquired'.
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Post by dirtdog on Dec 11, 2016 16:40:58 GMT -5
The Red Sox are trying to stay under the $195-million tax threshold in 2017. They are right around it now. Trading a starting pitcher would help them gain some payroll flexibility in case they need to add a player in-season. Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo reported today in his Sunday column that Bautista would have signed for two years with the Red Sox: "Jose Bautista would have accepted a two-year deal from Boston. The Red Sox informed Edwin Encarnacion's agents that they weren't interested in a long-term commitment, feeling that first baseman Sam Travis isn't far off from being a big-league contributor." Travis, 23, has been compared to Paul Goldschmidt. His 2016 season ended May 29 because of an ACL tear. He slashed .272/.332/.434/.765 with 10 doubles, six homers and 29 RBIs in 47 games for Triple-A Pawtucket before tearing it. Bautista, who turned 36 in October and declined a qualifying offer from the Blue Jays, was limited to 116 regular season games in 2016 because of injuries. He posted a .234/.366/.452/.817 line with 22 homers and 69 RBIs. He blasted 40 homers in 2015 and 35 homers in 2014. www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2016/12/boston_red_sox_rumors_would_jo.html#incart_river_index
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 11, 2016 16:56:18 GMT -5
I always had the feeling that the Sox were high on Sam Travis. Farrell really liked him out of spring training and gave him high praise before they left spring training.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 11, 2016 18:26:17 GMT -5
The Red Sox are trying to stay under the $195-million tax threshold in 2017. They are right around it now. Trading a starting pitcher would help them gain some payroll flexibility in case they need to add a player in-season. Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo reported today in his Sunday column that Bautista would have signed for two years with the Red Sox: "Jose Bautista would have accepted a two-year deal from Boston. The Red Sox informed Edwin Encarnacion's agents that they weren't interested in a long-term commitment, feeling that first baseman Sam Travis isn't far off from being a big-league contributor." Travis, 23, has been compared to Paul Goldschmidt. His 2016 season ended May 29 because of an ACL tear. He slashed .272/.332/.434/.765 with 10 doubles, six homers and 29 RBIs in 47 games for Triple-A Pawtucket before tearing it. Bautista, who turned 36 in October and declined a qualifying offer from the Blue Jays, was limited to 116 regular season games in 2016 because of injuries. He posted a .234/.366/.452/.817 line with 22 homers and 69 RBIs. He blasted 40 homers in 2015 and 35 homers in 2014. www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2016/12/boston_red_sox_rumors_would_jo.html#incart_river_indexTravis will probably be not as good as Babe Ruth. Now Travis has been compared to Babe Ruth.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 11, 2016 18:43:28 GMT -5
The Red Sox are trying to stay under the $195-million tax threshold in 2017. They are right around it now. Trading a starting pitcher would help them gain some payroll flexibility in case they need to add a player in-season. Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo reported today in his Sunday column that Bautista would have signed for two years with the Red Sox: "Jose Bautista would have accepted a two-year deal from Boston. The Red Sox informed Edwin Encarnacion's agents that they weren't interested in a long-term commitment, feeling that first baseman Sam Travis isn't far off from being a big-league contributor." Travis, 23, has been compared to Paul Goldschmidt. His 2016 season ended May 29 because of an ACL tear. He slashed .272/.332/.434/.765 with 10 doubles, six homers and 29 RBIs in 47 games for Triple-A Pawtucket before tearing it. Bautista, who turned 36 in October and declined a qualifying offer from the Blue Jays, was limited to 116 regular season games in 2016 because of injuries. He posted a .234/.366/.452/.817 line with 22 homers and 69 RBIs. He blasted 40 homers in 2015 and 35 homers in 2014. www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2016/12/boston_red_sox_rumors_would_jo.html#incart_river_indexIf he comparable to Goldschmidt then Sox should cut a deal with AZ to trade him in a package for Goldschmidt as it would fit both teams' time table better.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,962
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Post by jimoh on Dec 11, 2016 20:02:09 GMT -5
Sam Travis and Goldschmidt have in common that neither slugged .500 in the minors (Travis, never above .500, Goldschmidt, never below .600)
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 11, 2016 20:51:00 GMT -5
I'm expecting both Buchholz and Elias (no options) to be traded when baseball in general gets to the point that DD is holding 2 of the few obtainable starting pitcher cards left. The price will rise.
I'm expecting the Sox to sign some AAA depth at outfield and starting pitcher. The annual ritual kind of thing, the O'Sullival/LaMarres of the world.
It should also be noted that baring other moves, if Buchholz is traded, we would now have room under the cap for either Craig or Castillo. The door for them will open a sliver.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 11, 2016 22:26:50 GMT -5
Sam Travis and Goldschmidt have in common that neither slugged .500 in the minors (Travis, never above .500, Goldschmidt, never below .600) Ha ha ha...Good one!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 12, 2016 3:05:49 GMT -5
My guess, baring injuries and assuming a Buchholz trade and a few minor assumptions:
Leon Vazquez Moreland Ramirez Young Pedroia Bogaerts Sandoval Benintendi Bradley Jr. Betts Rutledge Holt
Porcello Sale Price Rodriguez Pomeranz
Wright Hembree ABad Ross Kelly Thornburg Kimbrel
With Smith due back around June 1st.
At Pawtucket, assuming Elias is traded (no options) Johnson Owens Workman (60 day DL) Barnes (has options) Smith (60 day DL after return) Noe Ramirez Hernandez Marrero Lake (just signed a minor league contract) Castillo (If Buchholz is traded, there's salary cap space) Craig (ditto) Travis Swihart (has options) Brentz
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