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2016-2017 Red Sox Offseason (Non-Manager) Discussion
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jan 31, 2017 21:17:18 GMT -5
I'll also note one last thing about Abad and this arbitration hearing. I doubt the Sox hold any ill will towards Abad. In fact, I can see Dave Dombrowski walking in and saying good luck to Abad and tell him that they won't hold any grudges toward Abad after the hearing. Dave Dombrowski is a players GM, he tends to relate to all the players he has on his roster. If the Sox trade Abad, it's because he isn't performing by the end of April or May. Not because of arbitration. Any management worth a shred would do that. If he's on your team you try to make him as comfortable as possible. I think that is implicitly understood and does not need to be said. Also trading a player whose performing badly for a month or two is not a good way to operate, in fact it's a recipe for failure and GM's know that too.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jan 31, 2017 21:39:41 GMT -5
Nomar was a weird situation though. He ended up breaking his wrist and lost a year of production because of that. He also had a rare disease in his hamstrings that wouldn't let him regenerate muscles in his hamstrings later in his career. Nomar was really talented, probably the best short career I'll see in my lifetime but there's no doubt that Mookie could end up being the better overall player very soon. I'll still say Mookie is the better overall player because of defense too. Nomar was sporadic defensively but definitely flashy. He never broke his wrist, he had a wrist injury that flared up several times. So, If that is the case you should be very worried about Pedroia. For example "It's the fifth straight season and sixth time in the last eight years that Pedroia has ended his season by going under the knife. His current problem can be traced to the tearing of the ulnar collateral ligament of his left thumb on a headfirst slide on Opening Day 2013-By Jay Jaffe in SI in 2014, and a history through 2014: www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=45464 and he's a guy you've championed as someone who'll continue to be good for years, based on the factual evidence I've laid down here and the comments you've stated above it apppears to be a contradictory statement, as the 2 are at odds. Also IMHO Nomar with a good fielding firstbasemen would likely have won a gold glove, his range was fantastic the accuracy of his throws to first were not as accurate as they could have been and poor fielding firstbasemen caused him many errors.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Feb 1, 2017 2:49:42 GMT -5
Nomar was a weird situation though. He ended up breaking his wrist and lost a year of production because of that. He also had a rare disease in his hamstrings that wouldn't let him regenerate muscles in his hamstrings later in his career. Nomar was really talented, probably the best short career I'll see in my lifetime but there's no doubt that Mookie could end up being the better overall player very soon. I'll still say Mookie is the better overall player because of defense too. Nomar was sporadic defensively but definitely flashy. He never broke his wrist, he had a wrist injury that flared up several times. So, If that is the case you should be very worried about Pedroia. For example "It's the fifth straight season and sixth time in the last eight years that Pedroia has ended his season by going under the knife. His current problem can be traced to the tearing of the ulnar collateral ligament of his left thumb on a headfirst slide on Opening Day 2013-By Jay Jaffe in SI in 2014, and a history through 2014: www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=45464 and he's a guy you've championed as someone who'll continue to be good for years, based on the factual evidence I've laid down here and the comments you've stated above it apppears to be a contradictory statement, as the 2 are at odds. Also IMHO Nomar with a good fielding firstbasemen would likely have won a gold glove, his range was fantastic the accuracy of his throws to first were not as accurate as they could have been and poor fielding firstbasemen caused him many errors. 1. I would never, ever bet against Pedey's ability to perform well through his contract; and the Sox will lose a lot when he hangs them up ... years from now. 2. It occurs that Mitch Moreland was brought aboard for several good reasons (solid LHB, luxury tax, Pedroia like drive, clubhouse leadership, mentorship for Travis, etc.), but perhaps mostly because he will improve the defense of not only Xander (see Nomar above) but also to give Panda some help as he rebounds. The same applies to Rutledge, Hernandez and even Holt. He makes the IF better.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 1, 2017 6:04:45 GMT -5
Nomar was a weird situation though. He ended up breaking his wrist and lost a year of production because of that. He also had a rare disease in his hamstrings that wouldn't let him regenerate muscles in his hamstrings later in his career. Nomar was really talented, probably the best short career I'll see in my lifetime but there's no doubt that Mookie could end up being the better overall player very soon. I'll still say Mookie is the better overall player because of defense too. Nomar was sporadic defensively but definitely flashy. He never broke his wrist, he had a wrist injury that flared up several times. So, If that is the case you should be very worried about Pedroia. For example "It's the fifth straight season and sixth time in the last eight years that Pedroia has ended his season by going under the knife. His current problem can be traced to the tearing of the ulnar collateral ligament of his left thumb on a headfirst slide on Opening Day 2013-By Jay Jaffe in SI in 2014, and a history through 2014: www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=45464 and he's a guy you've championed as someone who'll continue to be good for years, based on the factual evidence I've laid down here and the comments you've stated above it apppears to be a contradictory statement, as the 2 are at odds. Also IMHO Nomar with a good fielding firstbasemen would likely have won a gold glove, his range was fantastic the accuracy of his throws to first were not as accurate as they could have been and poor fielding firstbasemen caused him many errors. First of all, the first line in your sentence is factually incorrect. Nomar indeed had surgery to fix his broken wrist back in 2001. articles.baltimoresun.com/2001-04-03/sports/0104030185_1_media-access-mlb-garciaparraSecondly, you acknowledge that Nomar's arm wasn't accurate and then go on to say that he could of been a gold glove short stop. This is a complete contradiction. No first baseman would of helped some of Nomar's bad unorthodox throws to first base unless he was 8 feet tall. He was a unique, athletic, and a flashy short stop but he was never gold glove material because he was never consistent with his throws. He also made mental errors on balls hit right at him, whether it was picking the ball in the dirt or making the throw. Also, Pedrioa has needed two surgeries on his wrist. One was centered around his thumb, and the other was surrounding a Hamate bone in his wrist. He had the Hamate bone surgery in 2007 and came back and had a MVP season the year afterwards. He has come back strong from wrist and thumb surgery the last two years really well including one of his best years as a pro last year. His wrist surgeries hasn't affected his swing in the least bit to this point. Nomar's and Pedrioa's two wrist injuries were completely different, so comparing the two is complete fallacy.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 1, 2017 6:11:43 GMT -5
I'll also note one last thing about Abad and this arbitration hearing. I doubt the Sox hold any ill will towards Abad. In fact, I can see Dave Dombrowski walking in and saying good luck to Abad and tell him that they won't hold any grudges toward Abad after the hearing. Dave Dombrowski is a players GM, he tends to relate to all the players he has on his roster. If the Sox trade Abad, it's because he isn't performing by the end of April or May. Not because of arbitration. Any management worth a shred would do that. If he's on your team you try to make him as comfortable as possible. I think that is implicitly understood and does not need to be said. Also trading a player whose performing badly for a month or two is not a good way to operate, in fact it's a recipe for failure and GM's know that too. When you're a 25th man taking up a roster spot, GM'S tend to take feelings away from context. The Sox are looking for performance and Abad is already on a short leash considering his bad half season last year with the Sox. The reason why he wouldn't get traded is because Abad would have no value. He would be DFA'D instead of getting traded.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Feb 1, 2017 11:18:56 GMT -5
The people or robots at the Winston-Salem Dash (the only team named after punctuation, even if inaccurately) know what they are doing, for they have sent me an email about tickets for when the Salem Red Sox will be in town.
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Post by telluricrook on Feb 1, 2017 12:51:16 GMT -5
How unlucky were the Red Sox in game 3? That was such a bummer! If they won that game Porcello and Price would have had one more chance each to bounce back from their previous outing and you know the offense would wake up eventually.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 1, 2017 15:27:42 GMT -5
the Winston-Salem Dash (the only team named after punctuation, even if inaccurately) I.... I never got that.... how the hell did I never catch that?
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 3, 2017 17:17:53 GMT -5
I'm guessing that if they claimed Selsky it's because they think he's better than Blash. Both were available at the same time. I can't remember ever having seen Selsky play so I'd only be checking the stat line (which is solid). I'm actually pretty happy with the outfield depth now. Even if Brentz were to get claimed, they have Young and Holt on the bench, Selsky in the minors with options, Castillo in an emergency or if he plays better. Plus their right fielder is a good center fielder and their left fielder could do it in a pinch. Well, for what it's worth, we don't know if Blash had been put on waivers yet. At that point they had 2 more days. SD might be hoping to trade Blash for a C- prospect rather than put him through waivers. I also think saying Benintendi could play CF "in a pinch" doesn't give him enough credit. He wasn't going to be a gold glover, but he can field that position capably. In fact, I almost wonder if something happened to JBJ if he wouldn't be the one to move rather than Betts, who's now comfortable in RF (plus RF's importance at Fenway). But your point stands that you only really need corner OF depth on the bench. If JBJ gets hurt, Young goes to LF and Benny goes to CF, where he has more recent experience than Mookie anyway. That's also a better defense than Mookie in CF and Young in RF, because you need to hide Young in the spot that needs the least range. And if Mookie gets hurt, you go Young - Benny - JBJ for the same reason. Now, if they decide they don't like Benny as the backup CF, you'll see him play some RF in ST.
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Feb 3, 2017 18:34:41 GMT -5
the Winston-Salem Dash (the only team named after punctuation, even if inaccurately) I.... I never got that.... how the hell did I never catch that? I've heard sticklers for accuracy in the crowd yell "Go Hyphens!"
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 3, 2017 20:49:50 GMT -5
Those must be some fun people to watch a game with
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Feb 4, 2017 7:28:13 GMT -5
He never broke his wrist, he had a wrist injury that flared up several times. So, If that is the case you should be very worried about Pedroia. For example "It's the fifth straight season and sixth time in the last eight years that Pedroia has ended his season by going under the knife. His current problem can be traced to the tearing of the ulnar collateral ligament of his left thumb on a headfirst slide on Opening Day 2013-By Jay Jaffe in SI in 2014, and a history through 2014: www.baseballprospectus.com/card/card.php?id=45464 and he's a guy you've championed as someone who'll continue to be good for years, based on the factual evidence I've laid down here and the comments you've stated above it apppears to be a contradictory statement, as the 2 are at odds. Also IMHO Nomar with a good fielding firstbasemen would likely have won a gold glove, his range was fantastic the accuracy of his throws to first were not as accurate as they could have been and poor fielding firstbasemen caused him many errors. First of all, the first line in your sentence is factually incorrect. Nomar indeed had surgery to fix his broken wrist back in 2001. articles.baltimoresun.com/2001-04-03/sports/0104030185_1_media-access-mlb-garciaparraSecondly, you acknowledge that Nomar's arm wasn't accurate and then go on to say that he could of been a gold glove short stop. This is a complete contradiction. No first baseman would of helped some of Nomar's bad unorthodox throws to first base unless he was 8 feet tall. He was a unique, athletic, and a flashy short stop but he was never gold glove material because he was never consistent with his throws. He also made mental errors on balls hit right at him, whether it was picking the ball in the dirt or making the throw. Also, Pedrioa has needed two surgeries on his wrist. One was centered around his thumb, and the other was surrounding a Hamate bone in his wrist. He had the Hamate bone surgery in 2007 and came back and had a MVP season the year afterwards. He has come back strong from wrist and thumb surgery the last two years really well including one of his best years as a pro last year. His wrist surgeries hasn't affected his swing in the least bit to this point. Nomar's and Pedrioa's two wrist injuries were completely different, so comparing the two is complete fallacy. No, you are factually wrong, the sheathing in hist wrist caused the problems, not a broken wrist which to most means bone and, "He and team physician Dr. Bill Morgan traced it back to Sept. 25, 1999, when Baltimore's Al Reyes hit Garciaparra on the wrist with a pitch. But Garciaparra played all of 2000 with only mild discomfort in the wrist and led the AL with a .372 average. Morgan later described the damage, along with the amount of surgery required to fix it, as significant. After missing most of '01, Garcia returned in 2002 and '03 to have very good seasons -- All-Star seasons -" Again you mention Pedroia and how he's been good after injuries so it does not matter. It does not matter?, yet Nomar batted .372 after he initially hurt his wrist and had all star seasons. So once again you have contradicted yourself and on top of that after being shown the error in your logic you doubled down and ignored facts. I'm not sure you've watched much baseball at all for if you did you would understand that a bad firstbase men can make the rest of the infielders appear worse than they are, and a good one can do the opposite. Nomar played his career with terrible fielding firstbasemen. You indicate a lacking for basic understanding of cause and effect. Warning the following is an obvious statement that has no weight to it, "No firstbasemen would have helped some of his throws", well of course but it would have greatly reduced his errors. And "he also made mental errors at balls hit right at him" like every shortstop that played the game. That is anecdotal and a straw man arguement. I'm now putting you on ignore because some men (boys?) you just can reach.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 4, 2017 9:27:34 GMT -5
Man your grammar is bad. It's really unpleasant to the eye and really not worth reading. Just a cluster of words and sentences formed together with no spacing or anything. I'm glad you aren't replying to me and will ignore me, to be honest.
Yeah Nomar would never need surgery to fix a broken wrist, I'm completely wrong. Are you freaking kidding me? I even listed the link to his surgery and you ignore it.
There were seasons where Nomar was making 20+ errors a season and half of it was on bad throws. Maybe a better first baseman saves a quarter of them, but to think he could of been a gold glove short stop is just ignorant. He was playing in a league where Omar Visquel was a short stop. He was NEVER going to win a gold glove in his time with the Sox.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 4, 2017 9:40:05 GMT -5
First of all, the first line in your sentence is factually incorrect. Nomar indeed had surgery to fix his broken wrist back in 2001. articles.baltimoresun.com/2001-04-03/sports/0104030185_1_media-access-mlb-garciaparraSecondly, you acknowledge that Nomar's arm wasn't accurate and then go on to say that he could of been a gold glove short stop. This is a complete contradiction. No first baseman would of helped some of Nomar's bad unorthodox throws to first base unless he was 8 feet tall. He was a unique, athletic, and a flashy short stop but he was never gold glove material because he was never consistent with his throws. He also made mental errors on balls hit right at him, whether it was picking the ball in the dirt or making the throw. Also, Pedrioa has needed two surgeries on his wrist. One was centered around his thumb, and the other was surrounding a Hamate bone in his wrist. He had the Hamate bone surgery in 2007 and came back and had a MVP season the year afterwards. He has come back strong from wrist and thumb surgery the last two years really well including one of his best years as a pro last year. His wrist surgeries hasn't affected his swing in the least bit to this point. Nomar's and Pedrioa's two wrist injuries were completely different, so comparing the two is complete fallacy. No, you are factually wrong, the sheathing in hist wrist caused the problems, not a broken wrist which to most means bone and This is the funniest part of your quote. Let me go ahead and post the link that you clearly didn't read- "Red Sox team doctor and hand specialist Dr. Bill Morgan removed a bone fragment that was contributing to the chronic tendon inflammation that forced Garciaparra out of action this spring. Morgan also repaired the sheath of tissue around the tendon." It wasn't just a tendon problem. He had a broken bone in his wrist that the surgeon actually had removed. His wrist seemed pretty "broken" to me. Glad you're not responding to me anymore. You were borderline trolling every post of mine.
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Post by jmei on Feb 4, 2017 10:09:58 GMT -5
Please cut out the bickering. Thanks.
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Post by soxfanatic on Feb 7, 2017 10:49:52 GMT -5
Red Sox have signed Mike Olt per his Instagram. Will compete together with Dominguez for the best failed 3rd base prospect title.
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Feb 7, 2017 11:03:34 GMT -5
Red Sox have signed Mike Olt per his Instagram. Will compete together with Dominguez for the best failed 3rd base prospect title. Could be seven first round picks and two second round picks at Pawtucket (though there may not be room for them all) LH Henry Owens LH Brian Johnson RH Brandon Workman (2nd) C Blake Swihart 1B Sam Travis (2nd) 3B Matt Dominguez 3B Mike Olt SS Deven Marrero RF Brian Bogusevic
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 7, 2017 11:07:55 GMT -5
Erik Cordier was a second round pick, plus there's a good chance Bryce Brentz makes it through waivers and ends up back in Pawtucket. I wonder if that's a lot? Between still-prospect types like Swihart and Travis and the clear Quad-A types (which a good number of 1st and 2nd rounders turn into) it makes sense that Triple-A would have a lot of guys who were top picks. Like, look at Buffalo's roster last year - the whole team was basically ex-top prospects kicking around Triple-A: www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi?id=6043b91b
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Post by jrffam05 on Feb 7, 2017 14:29:26 GMT -5
If you look deep enough into my post history, you'll find some posts where I suggest we should trade Ellsbury to Texas for Olt. Just thought I should call myself out on that.
Good low risk signing.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 7, 2017 15:05:58 GMT -5
Hot take time: Jantzen Witte is better than both Dominguez and Olt.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 8, 2017 2:45:26 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Feb 8, 2017 12:30:24 GMT -5
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Post by ryan24 on Feb 9, 2017 7:39:33 GMT -5
Not surprised. Was Leon's 2 month binge real over the long haul or just his career defining moment? Between now and June it is going to very interesting to see what the sox do with the catching position. If swihart is healthy and hitting where does he play. If cv is hitting enough to go with his defense where does he play. And is Leon a one hit wonder or a consistent 260 hitting mlb catcher. I think it is a good problem to have.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 9, 2017 10:30:34 GMT -5
Not surprised. Was Leon's 2 month binge real over the long haul or just his career defining moment? Between now and June it is going to very interesting to see what the sox do with the catching position. If swihart is healthy and hitting where does he play. If cv is hitting enough to go with his defense where does he play. And is Leon a one hit wonder or a consistent 260 hitting mlb catcher. I think it is a good problem to have. I can tell you one thing, if Christian Vasquez is hitting, he'll be taking over the 2017 starters role in no time. Leon probably won't be hitting at all and is a backup type most likely. The problem is Vasquez might not be hitting at all. That's where Swihart enters the conversation.
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Post by ryan24 on Feb 9, 2017 12:46:21 GMT -5
I agree with cv. If he is hitting 250 range he probably is getting a lot of time behind the plate. If blake is healthy, wow what a problem to have. I agree, I think that Leon was playing his career moment and will revert back to prior years. Then what do you do with him?
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