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The Official 2016 World Series Thread
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Post by klostrophobic on Oct 26, 2016 14:07:27 GMT -5
What are people's thoughts on Miller's usage last night? Too aggressive or just right? It pretty much eliminates him for Game 2, which is a Bauer start, but the Indians have Salazar to piggyback so the dynamic isn't quite the same as the previous two series. It seems like a pretty clear indication that the Indians feel they need to win the three Kluber starts then steal one of the other four. Perfect usage. That at-bat to Schwarber in the 8th was the game and you want your best pitcher (lefty on lefty no less) in that spot. Miller can rest in about ten days. Go all in every game at this point. Plus Miller may not be as effective in a national league park if you have to account for his spot coming around in the away half of the inning so use him like this in the AL park.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 26, 2016 14:48:16 GMT -5
Francona didn't put him in because Allen would have been rusty otherwise. He did it because it's the World Series, where a six run lead is still higher leverage (in the championship probability added sense) than a one run game in the regular season, and where there are enough days off that overuse is less of a concern. Otero would have won them the game as well and it would have allowed Allen to go 2 innings today more effectively. I'm not even arguing the move though since I agree with it, but if you think that Farrell wouldn't be criticized by absolutely no one that's fine and all but I just don't agree.
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Post by bluechip on Oct 26, 2016 14:54:58 GMT -5
Using Andrew Miller like he has is fine... until his arms falls off in a critical situation.
I am not sure the post season hangover is a real thing, but it will interesting to see not only how Andrew Miller holds up over the next week or so, but also what he looks like early next year.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 26, 2016 15:05:56 GMT -5
Otero would have won them the game as well and it would have allowed Allen to go 2 innings today more effectively. I'm not even arguing the move though since I agree with it, but if you think that Farrell wouldn't be criticized by absolutely no one that's fine and all but I just don't agree. Looking back at it, I realize now this was a senseless discussion to start. I'm sorry for it, being on the defense force of an unanimously disliked manager can make you sensitive and paranoid lol.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 27, 2016 9:58:01 GMT -5
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 27, 2016 10:53:45 GMT -5
No WS today, the NFL game blows, thank God for the C's!
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 27, 2016 16:41:44 GMT -5
Respect to what Schwarber has done...but I think this thought that because he hasn't played and is now getting hits, that feat is superhero like, is overhyped.
I liken it to me coming out of a winter golf hibernation. I am not a scratch golfer, but I can hit it, very well at times. Often times, the first round(s) out the year were very good rounds, that subsequently got worse over time. I used to feel like it was because the negative stuff hadn't entered into my thoughts yet.
He is healthy, playing DH, and adrenaline is working well. Not taking anything away, and congrats to him, just not as heroic as it being portrayed.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 27, 2016 21:49:30 GMT -5
No WS today, the NFL game blows, thank God for the C's! Yeah, about that...
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Post by bluechip on Oct 29, 2016 7:29:23 GMT -5
Cleveland just keeps winning and the legend of Andrew Miller grows. It's funny, after all the talk about the need to prevent managers from making multiple pitching changes per inning, it has been Francona's willingness to let relievers go multiple innings that has been the driving force behind the Indians' run.
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sarasoxer
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 29, 2016 8:12:44 GMT -5
Cleveland just keeps winning and the legend of Andrew Miller grows. It's funny, after all the talk about the need to prevent managers from making multiple pitching changes per inning, it has been Francona's willingness to let relievers go multiple innings that has been the driving force behind the Indians' run. Do you think we'd like to have that opportunity to sign him back? Back in the day relief pitchers were guys not good enough to start and not worthy of bigger bucks. Even recently the thought was paying for relievers was something of a fool's errand as year to year performance was deemed too variable. IMO those days are over. Top teams built for the post season are stocking their pens with the burgeoning supply of shut down arms and have to pay.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 29, 2016 9:10:05 GMT -5
Awesome game last night. Hopefully Kluber and Tomlin can pull this off on short rest.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 29, 2016 11:45:35 GMT -5
I never understood why, after a reliever has a great inning, he can't be back to at least start the next one. Manager's retort normally is " Well,............................ is our closer". Unfortunately ML clubs have structured contracts for RPs to include saves. If the team wins, and because of strategy the "closer" didn't get the save, the manager has some 'splainin' to do. Then there are the calls to the GM from agents.
The win should be the ultimate goal, not individual stats.
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Post by thursty on Oct 29, 2016 11:48:03 GMT -5
Andrew Miller is sui generis, and if baseball salaries were merit-based should earn 4-5 times as much as the Red Sox' rocking chair closer.
However, I still wouldn't trade multiple legitimate prospects for him.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 29, 2016 13:44:21 GMT -5
I really think the game tonight will decide who wins the series. It should be the last favorable pitching matchup for the Tribe until game 7 which is bound for randomness anyway and I doubt that the Cubs could climb back from a 3-1 deficit against a Francona team. Game 3 was big, but this one is just bonkers.
Great day for baseball.
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sarasoxer
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 29, 2016 13:53:59 GMT -5
Andrew Miller is sui generis, and if baseball salaries were merit-based should earn 4-5 times as much as the Red Sox' rocking chair closer. However, I still wouldn't trade multiple legitimate prospects for him. We aren't going to trade for him....or anyone else of note. But it was an opportunity lost when it would have cost only a few more sheckles. Now we lose a draft pick for someone exceptional and at a far higher $cost than otherwise. Our assessment undervalued Miller and did not take cognizance of the games' increased bullpen arm importance. When we can shell out $72m for Castillo but lose out on Miller it raises some question on our talent evaluation.
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Post by ray88h66 on Oct 29, 2016 14:42:03 GMT -5
It's been a great World Series so far. Bring it.
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Post by Coreno on Oct 29, 2016 14:43:42 GMT -5
I really think the game tonight will decide who wins the series. It should be the last favorable pitching matchup for the Tribe until game 7 which is bound for randomness anyway and I doubt that the Cubs could climb back from a 3-1 deficit against a Francona team. Game 3 was big, but this one is just bonkers. Great day for baseball. Agreed. Tonight and last night are definitely the most pivotal games of the series. CLE taking back home field adv last night with Kluber looking to give them playoff win 10 tonight is absolutely where they want to be. On the other hand, if CHC and Lackey can spoil a Kluber game, they knot the series and have Lester vs. Bloody Bauer tomorrow.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 29, 2016 15:37:20 GMT -5
I never understood why, after a reliever has a great inning, he can't be back to at least start the next one. Manager's retort normally is " Well,............................ is our closer". Unfortunately ML clubs have structured contracts for RPs to include saves. If the team wins, and because of strategy the "closer" didn't get the save, the manager has some 'splainin' to do. Then there are the calls to the GM from agents. The win should be the ultimate goal, not individual stats. Relievers typically are used to getting really amped up when they come into a game and pitching with a huge amount of adrenaline, much of which goes away between innings (except maybe not as much in the postseason). That's the reason they don't usually do it.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 29, 2016 16:06:22 GMT -5
IIRC, the Sox offered Miller a nice reliever contract and the MFY flexed their financial muscle. I can't blame him, but he really didn't show much loyalty to the team that saved him from the scrap heap. Oh well. He's perfect for this kind of role, maybe even one of a kind in baseball, but he still is just a guy who's pitching great. He's not rewriting the book.
Francona's the guy I always root for. He was great here, and they f***ed with him on the way out the door. I hope his players can close the deal.
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Post by p23w on Oct 29, 2016 17:36:15 GMT -5
IIRC, the Sox offered Miller a nice reliever contract and the MFY flexed their financial muscle. I can't blame him, but he really didn't show much loyalty to the team that saved him from the scrap heap. Oh well. He's perfect for this kind of role, maybe even one of a kind in baseball, but he still is just a guy who's pitching great. He's not rewriting the book. Francona's the guy I always root for. He was great here, and they f***ed with him on the way out the door. I hope his players can close the deal. Miller would have re-signed with the red Sox, if they had matched the NYYankee offer. Why the RS did not match the Yankee offer is a mystery to me. Francona, OTOH, was the victim of Beltre clobbering Ellsbury and the ridiculous "stat based" signing of Carl Crawford. Too bad. Tito is/was probably the best manager of the Red Sox in my lifetime.
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Post by Coreno on Oct 29, 2016 18:14:17 GMT -5
It's important to keep in mind that the Yankees offered that contract in hopes of filling the void as they let David Robertson walk. I can't recall if there was any sort of competition between he and Betances but they knew one of them was going to be the closer and the other the set-up man, and with Dellin making the minimum, they had no reservations giving Miller that closer money.
The Red Sox, on the other hand, had Koji coming off an all-star campaign where he was healthy and quite good, even after coming back to earth after his other worldly 2013. Even though he was going to be 40, there was no reason to give the closer role to anyone else in 2015, especially a guy who had 2 career saves.
I think they would have loved to bring back Miller as a set-up man, and as added insurance behind Koji due to his age. $9M set-up men aren't all that common, so it's hard to really blame the Red Sox for botching those negotiations.
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Post by soxjim on Oct 29, 2016 19:45:53 GMT -5
While I agree with Coreno in one respect that Koji was quite good, I agree with those that screamed Miller should have been signed. Koji was 40 years old. Miller developed a new pitch or developed a new windup because of Bobby V. The orioles gave up a premiere prospect for Miller because of a reason. And that reason was that Miller "found himself." Miller should have ben signed. There should have been a vision he would be better than the 40 yo Koji or you sign them both and maybe don't blow your money on Panda whose game had been on downward spiral?
IMO we can look back on the Red Sox and see they appear pretty poor when it comes to evaluating pitching. Anyways looking this world series and the prior championship series, all the teams had a beast closer. Other championship teams such as the Giants they may not have had had the big beats closer but they had the starter that was a postseason beast. One point I have little confidence is- is Craig Kimbrel. He seems like the type of reliever that when the Red Sox needed a big run against in the postseason, they'd be able to scratch off a Kimbrel type when needed. I juts have no confidence in this guy-- but I did really "believe" that Miller was going to be extremely good so I don't I agree with Coreno when he says "no reason to give the closer role . . ."
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 29, 2016 21:41:05 GMT -5
I know the Cubs got the first run, but dear God this game hasn't felt close at no point. It feels like a MLB facing a AA team. Chicago better nut up or don't even bother showing tomorrow.
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Post by rookie13 on Oct 29, 2016 22:13:00 GMT -5
I was rooting for the Cubs to finally win it after 100+ years, but so much for that. The Indians' pitching is ridiculous. Tito deserves a lot of praise for the way he's operated the team this postseason. God I wish we still had him as manager
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 29, 2016 23:49:31 GMT -5
All the post-season teams that have won three straight elimination games. It's been done 19 times by 17 different teams (the '85 Royals and '12 Giants doing it in back-to-back series) from 12 different franchises. 10 franchises have one team, the Yankees have two, and you should know who has five.
It's only been done 9 times by a team playing a majority of the games on the road. You have to go all the way back to ... last year's Blue Jay / Rangers ALDS. If you're looking for a 7-game series, though, you have to go back to the other curse and the manager in the other dugout.
Year Series Team Opp HG 1958 WS NYA Mil 1 1968 WS Det StL 1 1979 WS Pit Bal 1 1982 ALCS Mil Cal 3 1984 NLCS SD ChN 3 1985 ALCS KC Tor 1 1985 WS KC StL 2 1986 ALCS Bos LAA 2 1995 ALDS Sea NYA 3 1996 NLCS Atl StL 2 1999 ALDS Bos Cle 2 2001 ALDS NYA Oak 1 2003 ALDS Bos Oak 2 2003 NLCS Fla ChN 1 2004 ALCS Bos NYA 1 2007 ALCS Bos Cle 2 2012 NLDS SF Cin 0 2012 NLCS SF StL 2 2015 ALDS Tor Tex 1
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