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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 8, 2016 21:50:50 GMT -5
Look, he may never be good. But he seems to at least understand that last year was a complete disaster and a joke. This is probably the best thing you could probably hear from him. Sure, he could just be saying it, but there are plenty of people who would never even say it. I think he truly feels that way. If he doesn't pan out but the effort is apparent, than so be it. But it didn't look like there was much care last year, which is unacceptable
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 9, 2016 9:23:02 GMT -5
I have very little doubt that Sandoval will be a good player this year. I'm not predicting he lives up to his contract but he will be better than Travis Shaw and a legitimate MLB starter. He will help the team and deepen the lineup. Bank on it.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Dec 9, 2016 9:49:45 GMT -5
While Shaw was likely never going to be a full time starter in Boston, there was little chance they traded him if the reports on Panda weren't positive for a return to his former self. I'm also on board with Sandoval playing well in 2017
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 9, 2016 11:07:09 GMT -5
I have very little doubt that Sandoval will be a good player this year. I'm not predicting he lives up to his contract but he will be better than Travis Shaw and a legitimate MLB starter. He will help the team and deepen the lineup. Bank on it. Pablo has the talent, let's see if he has the hunger or better yet if he lacks it.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 9, 2016 13:13:19 GMT -5
Complacent??? Man. I guess it could happen & glad he manned up to admit it. Maybe he can write JH a check for $40 mil..
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 11, 2016 20:34:26 GMT -5
While Shaw was likely never going to be a full time starter in Boston, there was little chance they traded him if the reports on Panda weren't positive for a return to his former self. I'm also on board with Sandoval playing well in 2017 Here's a Tomase piece quoting Farrell from his WEEI appearance. I was one of the first to be down on Pablo last year besed on how crappy he looked watching spring training games (not his output, how he looked). I'm optimistic because he's at least putting in the work it would take to turn it around. fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2016/12/11/john-farrell-on-pablo-sandoval-it-feels-like-hes-got-to-make-it-up-to-his-teammates-and-the-fans-of-boston/ADD: I remember reading someplace about a month ago that Pablo wanted to play winter ball but, due to the shoulder, the Sox decided it wasn't a wise move.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Dec 11, 2016 21:27:38 GMT -5
While Shaw was likely never going to be a full time starter in Boston, there was little chance they traded him if the reports on Panda weren't positive for a return to his former self. I'm also on board with Sandoval playing well in 2017 Here's a Tomase piece quoting Farrell from his WEEI appearance. I was one of the first to be down on Pablo last year besed on how crappy he looked watching spring training games (not his output, how he looked). I'm optimistic because he's at least putting in the work it would take to turn it around. fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2016/12/11/john-farrell-on-pablo-sandoval-it-feels-like-hes-got-to-make-it-up-to-his-teammates-and-the-fans-of-boston/ADD: I remember reading someplace about a month ago that Pablo wanted to play winter ball but, due to the shoulder, the Sox decided it wasn't a wise move. I tend to be a glass half full guy, often to my own detriment. What I see in Pablo, and what I've read of his quotes makes me believe he's hit bottom, and found his way out of the pit. People like that tend to exceed expectations once on the other side, because they get it and never again take it for granted. I'm hoping this is true for Pablo and we will see the guy who was so instrumental in 3 Giants championships.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 13, 2016 18:10:30 GMT -5
While Shaw was likely never going to be a full time starter in Boston, there was little chance they traded him if the reports on Panda weren't positive for a return to his former self. I'm also on board with Sandoval playing well in 2017 Here's a Tomase piece quoting Farrell from his WEEI appearance. I was one of the first to be down on Pablo last year besed on how crappy he looked watching spring training games (not his output, how he looked). I'm optimistic because he's at least putting in the work it would take to turn it around. fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2016/12/11/john-farrell-on-pablo-sandoval-it-feels-like-hes-got-to-make-it-up-to-his-teammates-and-the-fans-of-boston/ADD: I remember reading someplace about a month ago that Pablo wanted to play winter ball but, due to the shoulder, the Sox decided it wasn't a wise move. My understanding, perhaps read through the lines, was that the Sox wanted to keep tabs and oversight fearing that otherwise there could be a 'relapse'.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 13, 2016 18:56:46 GMT -5
I tend to be a glass half full guy, often to my own detriment. What I see in Pablo, and what I've read of his quotes makes me believe he's hit bottom, and found his way out of the pit. People like that tend to exceed expectations once on the other side, because they get it and never again take it for granted. I'm hoping this is true for Pablo and we will see the guy who was so instrumental in 3 Giants championships. I agree with all of this! Why not be a glass half full kind of guy, this is sports and it is a form of entertainment we should be optimistic. I am very hopeful for a productive Panda, anything that helps the Sox. It does seem as though he has learned a tough lesson and being the weak link in a chain, team, isn't something any player wants to be remembered for. Not to mention simply letting your teammates down.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,948
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Post by jimoh on Dec 13, 2016 20:20:29 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 13, 2016 20:46:36 GMT -5
I find it pretty ridiculous that they insist on the fat-shaming angle. The guy is being paid $19 million a year. He is subject to criticism for not being in shape. He's not just a normal person who doesn't get paid to stay in shape. I do have a lot more hope than I had though and am willing to give him another chance. He seems sincere and I appreciate that.
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Post by Coreno on Dec 13, 2016 23:43:14 GMT -5
I dont. The fat-shaming has been rampant. He wasn't prepared to do his job, but the amount of lazy fat jokes for a guy that has always been pretty fat, showing up looking more fat than usual, was the ridiculous part.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 14, 2016 12:39:22 GMT -5
I find it pretty ridiculous that they insist on the fat-shaming angle. The guy is being paid $19 million a year. He is subject to criticism for not being in shape. He's not just a normal person who doesn't get paid to stay in shape. I agree, and I would go a step farther and say it undermines the reality of actual "fat-shaming" and the far more nefarious nutritional inequities that exist. He isn't someone who got heavy because he's living paycheck to paycheck and a box of max and cheese or bag of cheetos is cheaper than an apple. He's not a healthy 140 pound woman getting called fat. There's a line - not even a fine line, but a thick, obvious guardrail - between calling a professional athlete out of shape and shaming a normal/heavy person without insight into the situation.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 14, 2016 19:55:49 GMT -5
I find it pretty ridiculous that they insist on the fat-shaming angle. The guy is being paid $19 million a year. He is subject to criticism for not being in shape. He's not just a normal person who doesn't get paid to stay in shape. I agree, and I would go a step farther and say it undermines the reality of actual "fat-shaming" and the far more nefarious nutritional inequities that exist. He isn't someone who got heavy because he's living paycheck to paycheck and a box of max and cheese or bag of cheetos is cheaper than an apple. He's not a healthy 140 pound woman getting called fat. There's a line - not even a fine line, but a thick, obvious guardrail - between calling a professional athlete out of shape and shaming a normal/heavy person without insight into the situation. AJ Willingham could have found a better subject for her piece. Pablo's job is to be in peak physical condition. He has access to the best trainers and nutritionists in the world. His day is not spent trying to run a business, work two jobs, or take care of kids because he cannot afford child care. His ONLY job is to stay in shape. He is guaranteed an obsurd amount of money with the expectation that he would stay in shape. It is perfectly fair to criticize him for not staying in shape. Just like it would be fair to criticize a doctor for staying abreast of the latest health threats or a politican for not staying up with world events. Willingham was trying to make a statement with her piece and think she missed the mark.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 15, 2016 19:46:41 GMT -5
We only need to page back to the beginning of this thread to see that we were pretty divided on the fat issue. It was only after he lost his job to Shaw that his supporters like jmei who thought fat wouldn't affect his performance because the projections said different and norm , among several others, who thought we should feel sorry for him pretty much went away.
lol, pro life/pro choice.
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Post by m1keyboots on Dec 16, 2016 17:49:43 GMT -5
Reading some of the Commend guys have left saying "Maybe be just isn't good at baseball anymore". And "He needs to be cut"
I'm sorry, but you don't hit .320 something, hit 20 Homers a couple times, play good defense for a couple seasons. Generally have good years and play well in tough situations/contending team and then forget how do do all of that. I can't think of one player who at his level (above average to good on a consistent basis) just lost his ability overnight, apart from a Rick ankiel or something.
I was glad to see him take responsibility, it takes a man to admit wrong and recognize faults, and it takes a professional to identify a primary factor in performance decline and do things to change. Especially when weight and body types aren't always things one has complete control over.
When he was awful of course his weight was an issue but if I remember he seemed to be mentally gone from the first year pressure and snowball effect, media coverage and overall bashing of what seemed like a nice guy. Hanley didn't do all that well his first year either but he just had muscles so many a writer seemed less harsh on him.
If he his healthy and gets the proper amount of AB's after missing so much time, I honestly expect an average defender, and at least a league average hitter. Of course many will get on him for not being better than that, bc surely none of us would take 90 mil because we didn't think we deserved it. Some of the baseball beat writers in Boston it seems like are legitimate trolls, or just doing/saying/writing things constantly in average negative light for the sake of being an ass.
I think most redsox fans would like to see a bounce back, I cant imagine someone saying to themselves "man I hope Panda tanks again". What I'm getting at, is its in everyone's best interest for Pablo to bounce back, and seeing as how it seems he is truly making large efforts to do this I'm willing to cut him some slack. Maybe jm not as realistic as some (guessed right on JBJ though!) Some people at times appear almost gleeful in their "opinions" on him as a player (which largely came off as opinions on his character). He's been a champ, he's been an allstar, he's been at the opposite end of the spectrum, here's to hoping he bounces back
Panda trainwagon rider here.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Dec 16, 2016 18:28:21 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 17, 2016 22:48:37 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 17, 2016 23:15:42 GMT -5
🐼⬇️🏋🏻
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 17, 2016 23:15:54 GMT -5
Decode and win a prize
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 17, 2016 23:31:14 GMT -5
This part of the thread reads like a bible-thumping testimonial. While I, like many of you, are happy to see the guy working hard, I'm going to throw some cold water on this revival. It is very difficult for weight loss to be maintained for the vast majority of individuals. That's because it has little to do with psychology and almost everything to do with physiology and metabolism: www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/03/diets_do_not_work_the_thin_evidence_that_losing_weight_makes_you_healthier.htmlMy concerns about Sandoval are less about his weight, and much more about his declining skills. His numbers have been trending down for a few years now, and while I'd like to believe that being in the BSOHL will change all that, I'm going to hold off popping the champagne cork just yet. If he does falter, even with the svelte physique, I'm certain it won't be the end of calling him out for his girth. That's cheap and easy. It's also doubtful. He hit when he was heavy for many years, so that may not be at the root of his falloff.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 18, 2016 2:16:39 GMT -5
This part of the thread reads like a bible-thumping testimonial. While I, like many of you, are happy to see the guy working hard, I'm going to throw some cold water on this revival. It is very difficult for weight loss to be maintained for the vast majority of individuals. That's because it has little to do with psychology and almost everything to do with physiology and metabolism: www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/03/diets_do_not_work_the_thin_evidence_that_losing_weight_makes_you_healthier.htmlMy concerns about Sandoval are less about his weight, and much more about his declining skills. His numbers have been trending down for a few years now, and while I'd like to believe that being in the BSOHL will change all that, I'm going to hold off popping the champagne cork just yet. If he does falter, even with the svelte physique, I'm certain it won't be the end of calling him out for his girth. That's cheap and easy. It's also doubtful. He hit when he was heavy for many years, so that may not be at the root of his falloff. For me, the production is secondary to the effort. If the Sox overpaid because his skills are declining so be it, that's on the Sox. If the Sox overpaid because there's no effort on Panda's part, that's a different ballgame, that's on Panda. At this point, I'm more than happy to sit back and see how it goes. The past two years weren't the case.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 18, 2016 9:32:54 GMT -5
This part of the thread reads like a bible-thumping testimonial. While I, like many of you, are happy to see the guy working hard, I'm going to throw some cold water on this revival. It is very difficult for weight loss to be maintained for the vast majority of individuals. That's because it has little to do with psychology and almost everything to do with physiology and metabolism: www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2015/03/diets_do_not_work_the_thin_evidence_that_losing_weight_makes_you_healthier.htmlMy concerns about Sandoval are less about his weight, and much more about his declining skills. His numbers have been trending down for a few years now, and while I'd like to believe that being in the BSOHL will change all that, I'm going to hold off popping the champagne cork just yet. If he does falter, even with the svelte physique, I'm certain it won't be the end of calling him out for his girth. That's cheap and easy. It's also doubtful. He hit when he was heavy for many years, so that may not be at the root of his falloff. Why can't the decline be related to his weight and that losing the weight would slow his decline and possibly reverse some of it? The defense and baserunning have to be related.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 11:30:08 GMT -5
His decline is a combination of weight gain and complacency. He won his third World Series with the Giants, signed a big contract that Winter, then entered the following Spring fat and happy. There's no way complacency isn't part of the equation here.
He's only 30, so it's not like he's a post-prime player. David Ortiz once looked washed up (2009/2010), then he realized he needed to work his ass off every offseason for the rest of his career in order t stay productive. I think Sandoval is making that realization right now. I'm expecting a good year from him. I'm not saying he will ever fully live up to the contract he signed two years ago, but I think he will be every bit the player the Giants had two years ago, which is an above-average everyday player.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 18, 2016 11:34:38 GMT -5
I'm with you jimed.
I understand that DNA is likely a significant factor with Pablo and makes it more difficult for him to keep the weight off. At the same time I don't subscribe to any argument that his additional weight was not a factor in his decline. That belies our life experience.
Somewhere I read that baseball consensus is that positional players peak around age 28. I'm sure there are exceptions but Pablo is in the vicinity. If his skills are in decline irrespective of weight, that would be an unusual occurrence.
IMO the more likely scenario would be a combination of weight gain, getting older coupled with the "complacent" attitude that Pablo admitted. Now he appears to be more focused and has lost pounds. If all that continues, I believe the "decline" will reverse itself. He could be in line for comeback player.
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