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Post by pokeefe363 on Nov 29, 2016 11:30:06 GMT -5
What's everyone's thoughts on Carter as a DH fall-back option? Ton of K's and low average, but he has OPS'ed .793 the last 3 years including .821 last year and averaged 37 HR per 162 games. I'd hope we land Beltran, but Carter's a better option than most of our internal ones.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 29, 2016 14:10:10 GMT -5
Carter is maybe a 110 wRC+ hitter who is a godawful baserunner. Big pass from me.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 29, 2016 15:12:32 GMT -5
Here's a handy table showing the wRC+ needed for various 1B / DH solutions. I show the break-even point and the wRC+ that'll get you a 1 WAR upgrade over 150 games. Each type of 1B solution is listed twice, once for an average defender and once for a +5. (In the course of throwing this together, I found some tweaks I needed to do to the big analysis from last night; those edit are in red.) Role 0 WAR 1 WAR full time DH 120 133 0 D full time 1B 109 122 +5 D full time 1B 102 115 0 D LH 1B 109 129 +5 D LH 1B 105 125 Time to repeat this from two pages ago. Carter has a 106 projection and is a worse defender than Hanley. You'd be much better off signing Sean Rodriguez or Plouffe.
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Post by lonborgski on Nov 29, 2016 18:59:55 GMT -5
Sean Rodriguez signed with the Braves. Two years, $11.5 million.
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 3, 2016 14:26:27 GMT -5
@jonheyman: red sox still looking for a hitter, but i hear they do not plan to take the big plunge and make it EE
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Dec 3, 2016 14:33:29 GMT -5
Rob Bradford @bradfo When asked what they thought Red Sox Plan B was after Beltran signing, one MLB exec surmised "Sandoval"
I don't want to live on this planet anymore
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Post by brendan98 on Dec 3, 2016 15:22:11 GMT -5
I'm glad Beltran has signed. Despite having to give up a draft pick, I prefer the Sox sign Bautista. Who knows if they will but I think he's our best option.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 3, 2016 15:57:20 GMT -5
Rob Bradford @bradfo When asked what they thought Red Sox Plan B was after Beltran signing, one MLB exec surmised "Sandoval" I don't want to live on this planet anymore I think they under estimate the power of the (Dombrowski trading) Force.
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Post by bannedfromsosh on Dec 3, 2016 16:12:36 GMT -5
The way things are shaping up, I'm guessing Dombrowski is going to wait until the aging 1b/DH musical chairs game comes to an end, and then pounces on the guy who's got no market left. My guess is Joey Bats, 1 year with a mutual option at 17m. Could also picture Matt Holliday at 1/15.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Dec 3, 2016 16:48:09 GMT -5
Rob Bradford @bradfo When asked what they thought Red Sox Plan B was after Beltran signing, one MLB exec surmised "Sandoval" I don't want to live on this planet anymore I think they under estimate the power of the (Dombrowski trading) Force. well, Miggy did say today that he wouldn't be against a fair trade somewhere even if he is happy in Detroit....
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Post by threeifbaerga on Dec 3, 2016 17:04:25 GMT -5
well, Miggy did say today that he wouldn't be against a fair trade somewhere even if he is happy in Detroit.... As much as I'd love to see Miggy pulling on a Sox cap 150+ times a year I shudder to think what it'd cost in terms of talent to acquire a Hall of Fame caliber 1b/DH going on 34. Best to leave that stone unturned.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 3, 2016 18:18:20 GMT -5
Rob Bradford @bradfo When asked what they thought Red Sox Plan B was after Beltran signing, one MLB exec surmised "Sandoval" I don't want to live on this planet anymore I think they under estimate the power of the (Dombrowski trading) Force. Jay Bruce or Yasmany Tomas?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 4, 2016 1:06:59 GMT -5
The more I look at the candidates for DH I begin to like Yasmany Tomas as an option best. It depends if Dombrowski is willing to tie up the DH spot for several years. Tomas is hitting age 27 and is beginning to break out. The walks aren't there. Maybe Chili Davis helps him that regard?
But the power is definitely emerging. His defense is so atrocious that it negates his offense, but as a DH that's not an issue. It would "block" Sam Travis as Hanley would be locked into 1b. Many here aren't too high on him so that's no issue to many here.
I wouldn't think it would cost a lot in a deal to acquire him? I would think Hazen is aware that his overall game has flaws in it and he's a DH in the wrong league and wouldn't demand too much in a deal, especially considering his contract.
Obviously Beltran would have been the perfect fit, but if the Sox only want one year then Matt Holliday (assuming nobody gives him more than 1 year), Chris Carter (if nobody else offers multiple years) or even an inexpensive trade for Jay Bruce makes the most sense. Giving up a draft pick for Bautista does not. I would think Napoli gets 2 seasons elsewhere and I really wouldn't prefer that elsewhere to be Boston.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 4, 2016 11:28:19 GMT -5
I don't understand why you'd ever want to give anything up for Tomas when you could just sign Chris Carter. They both right handed hitters who, at best, give you power and nothing else, but Carter has at least sustained that for a five year stretch whereas Tomas has only done it once. You could call it a breakout if you really want but his approach is awful. He's a true hacker and those guys get figured out. Carter can't make contact either but he at least lays off pitches outside the zone. On top of that, Tomas is signed through 2020, whereas Carter you could almost certainly get on a one year deal.
Jay Bruce is a slightly different player but again he's just really awful. I would take him in a trade if it was one of those Bronson Arroyo deals where the Red Sox eat the contract in exchange for a prospect coming with him. But he's not worth a roster spot.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 4, 2016 12:26:19 GMT -5
As I've mentioned before, I'd like to see the team use the DH spot for rest and rotation. They have enough positional flexibility to do that, and they have a lot of young hitters they need to keep developing.
I don't see Carter or Tomas as being useful options at all. Carter is one-dimensional and Tomas is zero-dimensional by my reckoning.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 4, 2016 12:28:22 GMT -5
I don't understand why you'd ever want to give anything up for Tomas when you could just sign Chris Carter. They both right handed hitters who, at best, give you power and nothing else, but Carter has at least sustained that for a five year stretch whereas Tomas has only done it once. You could call it a breakout if you really want but his approach is awful. He's a true hacker and those guys get figured out. Carter can't make contact either but he at least lays off pitches outside the zone. On top of that, Tomas is signed through 2020, whereas Carter you could almost certainly get on a one year deal. Jay Bruce is a slightly different player but again he's just really awful. I would take him in a trade if it was one of those Bronson Arroyo deals where the Red Sox eat the contract in exchange for a prospect coming with him. But he's not worth a roster spot. I'm going under the assumption that somebody might sign Carter for multiple years. I've already lived through the Chris Carter experience as I recall Rob Deer patrolling RF in 1993. That guy couldn't hit a lick either. He was either a walk, a K, or a HR. I think at age 30 what Chris Carter is, he is. He'll never have anything resembling a hit tool. With Tomas, I don't care for his approach either, but I think he as he hits 27 there's still room for improvement. I wonder if Chili Davis could make a difference in him being more patient. There was also that 100 something odd point spike in slugging average. I think he has a chance to be a 35 - 40 home run guy and maintain a decent BA. The key for him is patience at the plate and I think that's where Davis could help him, not turn him into a walk machine of course, but perhaps modify his approach. Maybe he can't and he is what he is - a DH with a low .300s OBP, but if he bops 30 HRs/year or close to it, he'd have some trade value if he didn't take the next step up. I'm not a huge Bruce fan, but his biggest issue has been his defense. His offense is ok, not great. He's in the Sox' price range and years range. You've critiqued my thoughts (fair game, fine), but what is your idea at this point? What would you do? I think at this point, I would guess the Sox zero in on Holliday. I don't think Dombrowski is one who likes to gamble or invest. I think he much prefers known commodities.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 4, 2016 13:40:17 GMT -5
Evan Gattis is probably definitely available now that the Astros signed another DH option in Beltran.
How does everyone feel about Gattis?
He's got two years left of control for a lower cost and probably won't be worth as much when it comes to prospects either. He's the latest guy to be rumored to be going to the Sox.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 4, 2016 13:46:15 GMT -5
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Dec 4, 2016 13:55:18 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 14:07:28 GMT -5
I don't understand the interest in Holliday. He's 37, injury-prone in his older age, he's coming off a bad year, and he's right-handed. It doesn't make much sense to me.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 4, 2016 14:17:01 GMT -5
All the possibilities I thought of and of course I missed Pedro Alvarez. He's comparable to the other guys out there but he's left handed. Of course, he's brutal against southpaws so I guess they'd be looking at a Alvarez/Chris Young platoon?
I'd think they'd prefer Holiday, but if he's out of their price range, then they're going to be shopping at the mid tier section or the bargain basement rack.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 4, 2016 14:17:11 GMT -5
As I've mentioned before, I'd like to see the team use the DH spot for rest and rotation. They have enough positional flexibility to do that, and they have a lot of young hitters they need to keep developing. I don't see Carter or Tomas as being useful options at all. Carter is one-dimensional and Tomas is zero-dimensional by my reckoning. Yeah I don't actually want Carter, it's just that his presence makes a Tomas acquisition completely indefensible.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 4, 2016 14:26:27 GMT -5
Id be interested in jae gyun hwang from the KBO on a small commitment. He can play 3B/1B and would be a nice compliment to Shaw & Sandoval. Obviously there is a big ? With him coming from the KBO, but he was posted last year with no bidders and this year he's a free agent, so any commitment would likely be meager.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 4, 2016 14:50:45 GMT -5
I don't understand the interest in Holliday. He's 37, injury-prone in his older age, he's coming off a bad year, and he's right-handed. It doesn't make much sense to me. Will take a short term deal, for not a ton of money. Doesn't cost a draft pick. Hope is DH can help him stay healthy and his upside is 120-130 OPS +. He also kills lefties.
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Post by Coreno on Dec 4, 2016 15:13:16 GMT -5
Id be interested in jae gyun hwang from the KBO on a small commitment. He can play 3B/1B and would be a nice compliment to Shaw & Sandoval. Obviously there is a big ? With him coming from the KBO, but he was posted last year with no bidders and this year he's a free agent, so any commitment would likely be meager. I would be down for this. I love that he went back to Korea last year and actually had a career year, including cutting his Ks in half. He looks like a solid player on both sides of the ball, and honestly kinda reminds me of A-rod stylistically.
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