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Yankees Offseason Discussion
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 17, 2016 20:31:19 GMT -5
What do you think of the Yanks starting pitching? Overall their hitting wasn't good and especially their power. Thus there is word out that they are going to make a play for your man, EE. They may go after Chapman - but on the other hand -- they have a lot of questions and holes. Too many games Chapman can't impact. because of the Yanks sub-par starters and their young unproven / potentially weak and light hitting. If the Yanks end up paying a huge salary for Chapman- I hope teams like the Sox drive up their price. If I'm the Yanks I'd pass on Chapman until I get my starters in order.
And imo Chapman will wither go tot the highest bidder or maybe take slightly less in order to be a contender. But first and foremost is the money. Secondary is role of closer.
The Yankees will be no doubt the highest bidder for Chapman, especially since he's got no pick attached which the Yankees should be prioritizing with a mid first round pick next year. This is the number of contracts that have come off the books this past year- Miller (9 million a year) Chapman (11 million in his last arbitration year, with a suspension) Texeira (25 million a year) Beltran (15 million a year) That's 60 million in AAV. That's without trading McCann yet, who could shed another10+ million off the books if traded. They also have Arod off the books next year at 27 million and and CC Sabathia coming off either the next year or the year after with the vesting option at 20+ million a year. That's 120+ million dollars in AAV coming off the books in the next two years potentially. The Yankees are going to be a pain with all their spending soon. Every Sox fan should kiss their Chapman dreams right now as we speak. The Yankees just shed another 15 million in AAV by dealing McCann. Man they are probably going spending a ton in the next few years. They'll buy Harper, Machado, Chapman, and probably Otani in the next few years. This is aggravating. I don't like the fact that the Yankees are in a good position to spend their way to a title like they did in 2009 in the near future. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2016 22:10:51 GMT -5
The Yankees will be no doubt the highest bidder for Chapman, especially since he's got no pick attached which the Yankees should be prioritizing with a mid first round pick next year. This is the number of contracts that have come off the books this past year- Miller (9 million a year) Chapman (11 million in his last arbitration year, with a suspension) Texeira (25 million a year) Beltran (15 million a year) That's 60 million in AAV. That's without trading McCann yet, who could shed another10+ million off the books if traded. They also have Arod off the books next year at 27 million and and CC Sabathia coming off either the next year or the year after with the vesting option at 20+ million a year. That's 120+ million dollars in AAV coming off the books in the next two years potentially. The Yankees are going to be a pain with all their spending soon. Every Sox fan should kiss their Chapman dreams right now as we speak. The Yankees just shed another 15 million in AAV by dealing McCann. Man they are probably going spending a ton in the next few years. They'll buy Harper, Machado, Chapman, and probably Otani in the next few years. This is aggravating. I don't like the fact that the Yankees are in a good position to spend their way to a title like they did in 2009 in the near future. Gotta love it when someone keeps responding to their own posts! Until the Yankees can develop players, they aren't a worry for me. You can't buy a championship in Baseball unless you have a strong core of home grown talent. I know they got a crap load of young players in trades, but let's see how they turn out. I have a strong feeling they will make some trades and get rid of a lot of those guys. Let's face it the Yankees have been down right horrible at developing young players lately. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 17, 2016 22:30:24 GMT -5
The Yankees just shed another 15 million in AAV by dealing McCann. Man they are probably going spending a ton in the next few years. They'll buy Harper, Machado, Chapman, and probably Otani in the next few years. This is aggravating. I don't like the fact that the Yankees are in a good position to spend their way to a title like they did in 2009 in the near future. Gotta love it when someone keeps responding to their own posts! Until the Yankees can develop players, they aren't a worry for me. You can't buy a championship in Baseball unless you have a strong core of home grown talent. I know they got a crap load of young players in trades, but let's see how they turn out. I have a strong feeling they will make some trades and get rid of a lot of those guys. Let's face it the Yankees have been down right horrible at developing young players lately. The Yankee mystique is amazing. Bottom line, they've won one of the 17 World Series this millennium. That's below major league average. |
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Post by telson13 on Nov 17, 2016 22:48:40 GMT -5
The Yankees will be no doubt the highest bidder for Chapman, especially since he's got no pick attached which the Yankees should be prioritizing with a mid first round pick next year. This is the number of contracts that have come off the books this past year- Miller (9 million a year) Chapman (11 million in his last arbitration year, with a suspension) Texeira (25 million a year) Beltran (15 million a year) That's 60 million in AAV. That's without trading McCann yet, who could shed another10+ million off the books if traded. They also have Arod off the books next year at 27 million and and CC Sabathia coming off either the next year or the year after with the vesting option at 20+ million a year. That's 120+ million dollars in AAV coming off the books in the next two years potentially. The Yankees are going to be a pain with all their spending soon. Every Sox fan should kiss their Chapman dreams right now as we speak. The Yankees just shed another 15 million in AAV by dealing McCann. Man they are probably going spending a ton in the next few years. They'll buy Harper, Machado, Chapman, and probably Otani in the next few years. This is aggravating. I don't like the fact that the Yankees are in a good position to spend their way to a title like they did in 2009 in the near future. They also got two guys who sit high-90s to 100. They have an exceptionally strong farm system now, at least at the lower levels. Gleyber Torres has been awesome in the AFL, and Clint Frazier is a good bet to be an above-average MLB regular in the .270/25HR/.350 OBP range. I agree that, in shedding salary now, they're gearing up to load up in FA and with trades. Probably a year or two away from contention, but very dangerous very soon. Not sure if Severino and Judge will pan out, but Sanchez looks like he finally put it together. |
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Post by larrycook on Nov 17, 2016 23:08:51 GMT -5
As much as it pains me to say, I think cashman has done a super job of shedding salary and restocking the system with some decent to above average talent.
If they land chapman, then they will be a dangerous team next year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 17, 2016 23:56:26 GMT -5
Gotta love it when someone keeps responding to their own posts! Until the Yankees can develop players, they aren't a worry for me. You can't buy a championship in Baseball unless you have a strong core of home grown talent. I know they got a crap load of young players in trades, but let's see how they turn out. I have a strong feeling they will make some trades and get rid of a lot of those guys. Let's face it the Yankees have been down right horrible at developing young players lately. The Yankee mystique is amazing. Bottom line, they've won one of the 17 World Series this millennium. That's below major league average. I get your point and agree people still think these are the 1990s Yankees. But how in the world is 1 title in last 17 years below major league average? The average team certainly hasn't won more than 1 title in the last 17 years not when the Giants and Red Sox have won six titles. More than half the teams haven't won a title in the last 17 years. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 18, 2016 0:04:32 GMT -5
The Yankee mystique is amazing. Bottom line, they've won one of the 17 World Series this millennium. That's below major league average. I get your point and agree people still think these are the 1990s Yankees. But how in the world is 1 title in last 17 years below major league average? The average team certainly hasn't won more than 1 title in the last 17 years not when the Giants and Red Sox have won six titles. More than half the teams haven't won a title in the last 17 years. You are correct, brain cramp, I was using half the teams. Average team won .5666. Still 1 title in 17 years isn't a team that has done well or deserves all the hype piled on them. They're not gods. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 18, 2016 0:30:59 GMT -5
I get your point and agree people still think these are the 1990s Yankees. But how in the world is 1 title in last 17 years below major league average? The average team certainly hasn't won more than 1 title in the last 17 years not when the Giants and Red Sox have won six titles. More than half the teams haven't won a title in the last 17 years. You are correct, brain cramp, I was using half the teams. Average team won .5666. Still 1 title in 17 years isn't a team that has done well or deserves all the hype piled on them. They're not gods. True but in those past 17 years, when did they build they way they did in the 1990s? Until recently, not at all. They spent the first decade of the new century trying to maintain, and they've been directionless the past five years of so until this past season. The Yankees have a good farm system now. Torres and Frazier are top notch prospects. Sanchez has blossomed into a very good player. They will go into the 2019 season with some good young homegrown players and good young players acquired in trades for relievers. Add to that, they will have a ton of money to spend on great mid 20s players like Harper and Machado. And they could very well be after Otani the following year. The money is there for them. Other than Ellsbury, they've done a pretty good job clearing the decks. By the end of the decade the Yankees will be a handful, having built for the future for the first time since the 90s. They will be dangerous. They'll be competitive next season, but they're still a couple of years away from the direction they're trying to go in, but when they get there, they could be very scary good. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 18, 2016 1:00:42 GMT -5
You are correct, brain cramp, I was using half the teams. Average team won .5666. Still 1 title in 17 years isn't a team that has done well or deserves all the hype piled on them. They're not gods. True but in those past 17 years, when did they build they way they did in the 1990s? Until recently, not at all. They spent the first decade of the new century trying to maintain, and they've been directionless the past five years of so until this past season. The Yankees have a good farm system now. Torres and Frazier are top notch prospects. Sanchez has blossomed into a very good player. They will go into the 2019 season with some good young homegrown players and good young players acquired in trades for relievers. Add to that, they will have a ton of money to spend on great mid 20s players like Harper and Machado. And they could very well be after Otani the following year. The money is there for them. Other than Ellsbury, they've done a pretty good job clearing the decks. By the end of the decade the Yankees will be a handful, having built for the future for the first time since the 90s. They will be dangerous. They'll be competitive next season, but they're still a couple of years away from the direction they're trying to go in, but when they get there, they could be very scary good. That's really not true. This all started years ago when they let Cano go and haven't traded top prospects for years now. There problem is they don't seem to be able to develop their prospects. Sure maybe Torres and Frazier ban out because other teams developed them, but until they can continually develop player they draft they will not be a power house. I also think people are getting a little high on Sanchez. I think he can be a good player, but look at his minor league numbers. I wouldn't be shocked if he has a very disappointing year. Can you say Will Middlebrooks? Not saying he's going to flame out, but just because he had a great two months doesn't mean he's turned a corner. Guys the Owner that made the Yankees a power house is dead. I just don't get the thinking that the Yankees are getting close to being a power house. Let's wait and see if they can produce the homegrown talent needed first. Look at our roster, all our young talent and then what we have in minors, now compare to Yankees. They have a long way to go! |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 18, 2016 1:22:35 GMT -5
True but in those past 17 years, when did they build they way they did in the 1990s? Until recently, not at all. They spent the first decade of the new century trying to maintain, and they've been directionless the past five years of so until this past season. The Yankees have a good farm system now. Torres and Frazier are top notch prospects. Sanchez has blossomed into a very good player. They will go into the 2019 season with some good young homegrown players and good young players acquired in trades for relievers. Add to that, they will have a ton of money to spend on great mid 20s players like Harper and Machado. And they could very well be after Otani the following year. The money is there for them. Other than Ellsbury, they've done a pretty good job clearing the decks. By the end of the decade the Yankees will be a handful, having built for the future for the first time since the 90s. They will be dangerous. They'll be competitive next season, but they're still a couple of years away from the direction they're trying to go in, but when they get there, they could be very scary good. That's really not true. This all started years ago when they let Cano go and haven't traded top prospects for years now. There problem is they don't seem to be able to develop their prospects. Sure maybe Torres and Frazier ban out because other teams developed them, but until they can continually develop player they draft they will not be a power house. I also think people are getting a little high on Sanchez. I think he can be a good player, but look at his minor league numbers. I wouldn't be shocked if he has a very disappointing year. Can you say Will Middlebrooks? Not saying he's going to flame out, but just because he had a great two months doesn't mean he's turned a corner. Guys the Owner that made the Yankees a power house is dead. I just don't get the thinking that the Yankees are getting close to being a power house. Let's wait and see if they can produce the homegrown talent needed first. Look at our roster, all our young talent and then what we have in minors, now compare to Yankees. They have a long way to go! NM |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 18, 2016 5:11:05 GMT -5
The Yankees just shed another 15 million in AAV by dealing McCann. Man they are probably going spending a ton in the next few years. They'll buy Harper, Machado, Chapman, and probably Otani in the next few years. This is aggravating. I don't like the fact that the Yankees are in a good position to spend their way to a title like they did in 2009 in the near future. Gotta love it when someone keeps responding to their own posts! Until the Yankees can develop players, they aren't a worry for me. You can't buy a championship in Baseball unless you have a strong core of home grown talent. I know they got a crap load of young players in trades, but let's see how they turn out. I have a strong feeling they will make some trades and get rid of a lot of those guys. Let's face it the Yankees have been down right horrible at developing young players lately. I wasn't responding to my own posts, I was expanding on it. Actually the 2009 Yankees proved that you indeed can buy a championship. Here are the list of free agents the Yankees bought in years prior- Hideki Matsui Johnny Damon Alex Rodriguez (on a new extension/contract) Mark Texeira CC Sabathia AJ Burnett Andy Pettite There weren't very homegrow in talent at that point. Most of the bullpen pieces were homegrown and Melky Cabrera and Cano were homegrown, that's about it. I would include the likes of Jeter, Posada, and Rivera but they already had been given some of the biggest extensions at that time and wouldn't be Yankees unless they were the big spenders that they always been. That roster was a product of free agency and trades. They spent 725 million in total contracts the two years prior and got rewarded for it instantly. The Yankees will be at this point again. Hopefully the Sox can match them with the same amount of talent that the Yankees can spend on. The fact that you brush it off shows some sort of denial complex you got going on. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 18, 2016 5:27:27 GMT -5
True but in those past 17 years, when did they build they way they did in the 1990s? Until recently, not at all. They spent the first decade of the new century trying to maintain, and they've been directionless the past five years of so until this past season. The Yankees have a good farm system now. Torres and Frazier are top notch prospects. Sanchez has blossomed into a very good player. They will go into the 2019 season with some good young homegrown players and good young players acquired in trades for relievers. Add to that, they will have a ton of money to spend on great mid 20s players like Harper and Machado. And they could very well be after Otani the following year. The money is there for them. Other than Ellsbury, they've done a pretty good job clearing the decks. By the end of the decade the Yankees will be a handful, having built for the future for the first time since the 90s. They will be dangerous. They'll be competitive next season, but they're still a couple of years away from the direction they're trying to go in, but when they get there, they could be very scary good. That's really not true. This all started years ago when they let Cano go and haven't traded top prospects for years now. There problem is they don't seem to be able to develop their prospects. Sure maybe Torres and Frazier ban out because other teams developed them, but until they can continually develop player they draft they will not be a power house. I also think people are getting a little high on Sanchez. I think he can be a good player, but look at his minor league numbers. I wouldn't be shocked if he has a very disappointing year. Can you say Will Middlebrooks? Not saying he's going to flame out, but just because he had a great two months doesn't mean he's turned a corner. Guys the Owner that made the Yankees a power house is dead. I just don't get the thinking that the Yankees are getting close to being a power house. Let's wait and see if they can produce the homegrown talent needed first. Look at our roster, all our young talent and then what we have in minors, now compare to Yankees. They have a long way to go! Most people already know that they have 1-2 years to go until they are real contenders again. The Yankees will probably finish 3rd or 4th in the division, even with upgrades like a Beltran, Chapman, and maybe even Rich Hill. Come the super free agent class of 2018, it's a completely different ballgame however. Machado, Harper, and maybe Otani could form a new all-star core in their minds and they can afford each and every one of these guys with the contracts they're shedding right now. Nevermind the developing part, with their top 5 farm system in baseball right now who probably will produce 2-4 more serious players by that time. The Yankees will be a serious threat by 2019, hopefully the Sox can either win in the next two years while the Yankees are essentially rebuilding or the Sox will match the Yankees in 2019 in terms of talent. It'll take a lot to match them, the Sox will be off to a good start if the extend Mookie and possibly Xander but they will need more by that time. They would need the likes of Moncada, Kopech, Swihart, Eduardo Rodriguez, Benintendi, Groome, and Devers to develop into serious players and make smart trades and free agent signings along the way. It will be tough but it can be done if the Sox are smart about things. The Yankees don't need to be smart, they'll buy all the best players. This is the aggravating part. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 18, 2016 11:39:31 GMT -5
Gotta love it when someone keeps responding to their own posts! Until the Yankees can develop players, they aren't a worry for me. You can't buy a championship in Baseball unless you have a strong core of home grown talent. I know they got a crap load of young players in trades, but let's see how they turn out. I have a strong feeling they will make some trades and get rid of a lot of those guys. Let's face it the Yankees have been down right horrible at developing young players lately. I wasn't responding to my own posts, I was expanding on it. Actually the 2009 Yankees proved that you indeed can buy a championship. Here are the list of free agents the Yankees bought in years prior- Hideki Matsui Johnny Damon Alex Rodriguez (on a new extension/contract) Mark Texeira CC Sabathia AJ Burnett Andy Pettite There weren't very homegrow in talent at that point. Most of the bullpen pieces were homegrown and Melky Cabrera and Cano were homegrown, that's about it. I would include the likes of Jeter, Posada, and Rivera but they already had been given some of the biggest extensions at that time and wouldn't be Yankees unless they were the big spenders that they always been. That roster was a product of free agency and trades. They spent 725 million in total contracts the two years prior and got rewarded for it instantly. The Yankees will be at this point again. Hopefully the Sox can match them with the same amount of talent that the Yankees can spend on. The fact that you brush it off shows some sort of denial complex you got going on. Come on, there was Aceves, Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy,Melancon, Robertson, Cervelli, Cano, Cabrera and Gardner. That's just the bigger names there were others. Chamberlain and Hughes started 38 games for them that year. Aceves gave them 84 good innings. Over half the roster was homegrown and they had a ton of good young talent to plug in holes! You can't just buy a Championship, it's impossible. That's what people miss about the Yankees run, they think it was all money. They developed a crap load of good young players, just like Red Sox are now doing! Some how they have got away from that. Not sure if it's just bad luck, the law of averages or certain people left team, but they just aren't the same. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 18, 2016 12:04:54 GMT -5
That's really not true. This all started years ago when they let Cano go and haven't traded top prospects for years now. There problem is they don't seem to be able to develop their prospects. Sure maybe Torres and Frazier ban out because other teams developed them, but until they can continually develop player they draft they will not be a power house. I also think people are getting a little high on Sanchez. I think he can be a good player, but look at his minor league numbers. I wouldn't be shocked if he has a very disappointing year. Can you say Will Middlebrooks? Not saying he's going to flame out, but just because he had a great two months doesn't mean he's turned a corner. Guys the Owner that made the Yankees a power house is dead. I just don't get the thinking that the Yankees are getting close to being a power house. Let's wait and see if they can produce the homegrown talent needed first. Look at our roster, all our young talent and then what we have in minors, now compare to Yankees. They have a long way to go! Most people already know that they have 1-2 years to go until they are real contenders again. The Yankees will probably finish 3rd or 4th in the division, even with upgrades like a Beltran, Chapman, and maybe even Rich Hill. Come the super free agent class of 2018, it's a completely different ballgame however. Machado, Harper, and maybe Otani could form a new all-star core in their minds and they can afford each and every one of these guys with the contracts they're shedding right now. Nevermind the developing part, with their top 5 farm system in baseball right now who probably will produce 2-4 more serious players by that time. The Yankees will be a serious threat by 2019, hopefully the Sox can either win in the next two years while the Yankees are essentially rebuilding or the Sox will match the Yankees in 2019 in terms of talent. It'll take a lot to match them, the Sox will be off to a good start if the extend Mookie and possibly Xander but they will need more by that time. They would need the likes of Moncada, Kopech, Swihart, Eduardo Rodriguez, Benintendi, Groome, and Devers to develop into serious players and make smart trades and free agent signings along the way. It will be tough but it can be done if the Sox are smart about things. The Yankees don't need to be smart, they'll buy all the best players. This is the aggravating part. Wow you think so highly of Yankees and have such a negative view of Red Sox. Last time I checked we had the second best collection of young talent in majors, trailing only the Cubs by a small margin and a great farm system. So 2-4 of the Yankee prospects in minors that have shown nothing in majors will step forward, but we need our young players to? Come on Swihart, Benintendi, and ERod have already had success in majors. The Yankees can't match our top prospects, they might have a deeper system now, but they can't match Moncada, Kopech, Devers and Groome(Benintendi is still considered a rookie also). Where's the Yankees pitching coming from? They are going to need 2-3 starters, if not more if Tanka breaks down. Been rumors for years that he will in time need major surgery, reminds me of Pedro playing through it, but it will give out sooner or later. Harper is no lock to leave his team, his owner spends money and it would shock me if they let him leave. Machado might leave, but again if Baltimore is going to spend big he's the guy. You have no clue who they will be able to sign! You sound like a Yankee fan dreaming of the best outcome possible!! Sit back and enjoy the Red Sox! They are the team set up to dominate the AL for the next 10 years, not the Yankees. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 18, 2016 14:25:21 GMT -5
I wasn't responding to my own posts, I was expanding on it. Actually the 2009 Yankees proved that you indeed can buy a championship. Here are the list of free agents the Yankees bought in years prior- Hideki Matsui Johnny Damon Alex Rodriguez (on a new extension/contract) Mark Texeira CC Sabathia AJ Burnett Andy Pettite There weren't very homegrow in talent at that point. Most of the bullpen pieces were homegrown and Melky Cabrera and Cano were homegrown, that's about it. I would include the likes of Jeter, Posada, and Rivera but they already had been given some of the biggest extensions at that time and wouldn't be Yankees unless they were the big spenders that they always been. That roster was a product of free agency and trades. They spent 725 million in total contracts the two years prior and got rewarded for it instantly. The Yankees will be at this point again. Hopefully the Sox can match them with the same amount of talent that the Yankees can spend on. The fact that you brush it off shows some sort of denial complex you got going on. Come on, there was Aceves, Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy,Melancon, Robertson, Cervelli, Cano, Cabrera and Gardner. That's just the bigger names there were others. Chamberlain and Hughes started 38 games for them that year. Aceves gave them 84 good innings. Over half the roster was homegrown and they had a ton of good young talent to plug in holes! You can't just buy a Championship, it's impossible. That's what people miss about the Yankees run, they think it was all money. They developed a crap load of good young players, just like Red Sox are now doing! Some how they have got away from that. Not sure if it's just bad luck, the law of averages or certain people left team, but they just aren't the same. Ya like I said, bullpen pieces and 2-3 starters from the farm. The rest of it was pure money. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 18, 2016 14:32:58 GMT -5
Most people already know that they have 1-2 years to go until they are real contenders again. The Yankees will probably finish 3rd or 4th in the division, even with upgrades like a Beltran, Chapman, and maybe even Rich Hill. Come the super free agent class of 2018, it's a completely different ballgame however. Machado, Harper, and maybe Otani could form a new all-star core in their minds and they can afford each and every one of these guys with the contracts they're shedding right now. Nevermind the developing part, with their top 5 farm system in baseball right now who probably will produce 2-4 more serious players by that time. The Yankees will be a serious threat by 2019, hopefully the Sox can either win in the next two years while the Yankees are essentially rebuilding or the Sox will match the Yankees in 2019 in terms of talent. It'll take a lot to match them, the Sox will be off to a good start if the extend Mookie and possibly Xander but they will need more by that time. They would need the likes of Moncada, Kopech, Swihart, Eduardo Rodriguez, Benintendi, Groome, and Devers to develop into serious players and make smart trades and free agent signings along the way. It will be tough but it can be done if the Sox are smart about things. The Yankees don't need to be smart, they'll buy all the best players. This is the aggravating part. Wow you think so highly of Yankees and have such a negative view of Red Sox. Last time I checked we had the second best collection of young talent in majors, trailing only the Cubs by a small margin and a great farm system. So 2-4 of the Yankee prospects in minors that have shown nothing in majors will step forward, but we need our young players to? Come on Swihart, Benintendi, and ERod have already had success in majors. The Yankees can't match our top prospects, they might have a deeper system now, but they can't match Moncada, Kopech, Devers and Groome(Benintendi is still considered a rookie also). Where's the Yankees pitching coming from? They are going to need 2-3 starters, if not more if Tanka breaks down. Been rumors for years that he will in time need major surgery, reminds me of Pedro playing through it, but it will give out sooner or later. Harper is no lock to leave his team, his owner spends money and it would shock me if they let him leave. Machado might leave, but again if Baltimore is going to spend big he's the guy. You have no clue who they will be able to sign! You sound like a Yankee fan dreaming of the best outcome possible!! Sit back and enjoy the Red Sox! They are the team set up to dominate the AL for the next 10 years, not the Yankees. The Yankees have 140 million dollars (rough estimate) coming off in AAV the next two years. They can literally get Harper (who will go to free agency despite your wishful thinking that a Boras client won't go to free agency), Machado, Otani, Chapman, and who ever else they want. Half their work can be done in franchise talent through free agency. This is the concept you don't understand. I'm sure they'll be in on any great free agent pitching too that comes around also. I'm not negative, I'm realistic. The fact that you throw the Yankees off by comparing them to the Sox shows your ignorance of the subject. If you can't see what the Yankees are doing right now, then you're the only one here who can't see it. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 18, 2016 15:21:58 GMT -5
Pettite may have been a FA acquisition at the time but he started out a Yankee.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 18, 2016 15:25:05 GMT -5
Come on, there was Aceves, Chamberlain, Hughes, Kennedy,Melancon, Robertson, Cervelli, Cano, Cabrera and Gardner. That's just the bigger names there were others. Chamberlain and Hughes started 38 games for them that year. Aceves gave them 84 good innings. Over half the roster was homegrown and they had a ton of good young talent to plug in holes! You can't just buy a Championship, it's impossible. That's what people miss about the Yankees run, they think it was all money. They developed a crap load of good young players, just like Red Sox are now doing! Some how they have got away from that. Not sure if it's just bad luck, the law of averages or certain people left team, but they just aren't the same. Ya like I said, bullpen pieces and 2-3 starters from the farm. The rest of it was pure money. No over half the team was homegrown. That in no way is buying a championship in free agency! You can think Jeter, Posada, and Riveria were free agent signings but they weren't, that's a fact my friend! 4 out 9 positional players were homegrown and 2 were on rookie deals. 2 of their top reserves were cheap homegrown players. Almost the hole pen was homegrown and beside Riveria there top 3 relievers were cheap homegrown talent. Never mind one of there starters and a couple of other guys that made starts. Just because you pay your homegrown talent doesn't make them a free agent purchase! Let me know when Yankees have 3 stars like Jeter, Posada, and Riveria, to go along with all the young talent I listed above and then they might be able to buy a Championship. That's what your missing, right now they don't have that foundation. Never mind those contracts for those star players is what has restricted the Yankees for years. An aging team with huge long term deals and they stopped producing the Young guys needed to fill holes. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 18, 2016 15:55:50 GMT -5
Wow you think so highly of Yankees and have such a negative view of Red Sox. Last time I checked we had the second best collection of young talent in majors, trailing only the Cubs by a small margin and a great farm system. So 2-4 of the Yankee prospects in minors that have shown nothing in majors will step forward, but we need our young players to? Come on Swihart, Benintendi, and ERod have already had success in majors. The Yankees can't match our top prospects, they might have a deeper system now, but they can't match Moncada, Kopech, Devers and Groome(Benintendi is still considered a rookie also). Where's the Yankees pitching coming from? They are going to need 2-3 starters, if not more if Tanka breaks down. Been rumors for years that he will in time need major surgery, reminds me of Pedro playing through it, but it will give out sooner or later. Harper is no lock to leave his team, his owner spends money and it would shock me if they let him leave. Machado might leave, but again if Baltimore is going to spend big he's the guy. You have no clue who they will be able to sign! You sound like a Yankee fan dreaming of the best outcome possible!! Sit back and enjoy the Red Sox! They are the team set up to dominate the AL for the next 10 years, not the Yankees. The Yankees have 140 million dollars (rough estimate) coming off in AAV the next two years. They can literally get Harper (who will go to free agency despite your wishful thinking that a Boras client won't go to free agency), Machado, Otani, Chapman, and who ever else they want. Half their work can be done in franchise talent through free agency. This is the concept you don't understand. I'm sure they'll be in on any great free agent pitching too that comes around also. I'm not negative, I'm realistic. The fact that you throw the Yankees off by comparing them to the Sox shows your ignorance of the subject. If you can't see what the Yankees are doing right now, then you're the only one here who can't see it. When did I say Harper wouldn't go to free agency?? I never did I said he is no lock to leave his current team! Call me crazy but wasn't Strasburg a Boras client that signed before free agency? The Nationals are a good big market team that spends, they drafted Harper, maybe he doesn't want to leave. Did you ever think about that? I'm not saying they couldn't sign him, I'm saying it's far from a lock he leaves his current team that has an owner that is known to give out some of the biggest deals in the game. You act like he plays in Tampa or Oakland and it's a lock he leaves and that he'll go to the Yankees. News flash the Yankees are rebuilding, it's going to be hard for them to lure free agents. Currently the Nationals are a much better team than the Yankees. Harper could just as easily go to the Red Sox, Cubs, Giants, Dodgers or some other team. News flash the Yankees no longer have a payroll twice the next closet team and won't going forward. Other teams can match what the Yankees could offer. I see what the Yankees are doing and understand it. If they were smart they would start a 2-4 year rebuild like the Cubs did. Chances of that happening are slim to none, they will try a quick rebuild and most likely trade away a bunch of those prospects to speed up the rebuild. Again it will come down to can they draft and develop players and they haven't done that since like 2009. The thing you don't seem to understand is that these Yankees can't outspend everyone like the Yankees of the 1990s did. Go look up payroll back then and now. Now most large market teams can come close to matching the Yankees on payroll. Also more and more stars are getting locked up before they ever come close to free agency. Also teams like the Marlins are giving out 300 plus million dollar deals to keep their star players. The land scape in Baseball has changed, but you can't or don't want to see that. |
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Post by telson13 on Nov 18, 2016 17:25:46 GMT -5
True but in those past 17 years, when did they build they way they did in the 1990s? Until recently, not at all. They spent the first decade of the new century trying to maintain, and they've been directionless the past five years of so until this past season. The Yankees have a good farm system now. Torres and Frazier are top notch prospects. Sanchez has blossomed into a very good player. They will go into the 2019 season with some good young homegrown players and good young players acquired in trades for relievers. Add to that, they will have a ton of money to spend on great mid 20s players like Harper and Machado. And they could very well be after Otani the following year. The money is there for them. Other than Ellsbury, they've done a pretty good job clearing the decks. By the end of the decade the Yankees will be a handful, having built for the future for the first time since the 90s. They will be dangerous. They'll be competitive next season, but they're still a couple of years away from the direction they're trying to go in, but when they get there, they could be very scary good. That's really not true. This all started years ago when they let Cano go and haven't traded top prospects for years now. There problem is they don't seem to be able to develop their prospects. Sure maybe Torres and Frazier ban out because other teams developed them, but until they can continually develop player they draft they will not be a power house. I also think people are getting a little high on Sanchez. I think he can be a good player, but look at his minor league numbers. I wouldn't be shocked if he has a very disappointing year. Can you say Will Middlebrooks? Not saying he's going to flame out, but just because he had a great two months doesn't mean he's turned a corner. Guys the Owner that made the Yankees a power house is dead. I just don't get the thinking that the Yankees are getting close to being a power house. Let's wait and see if they can produce the homegrown talent needed first. Look at our roster, all our young talent and then what we have in minors, now compare to Yankees. They have a long way to go! A significant part of that has been that their just-better-than-mediocre performance has kept them in the back of draft rounds. They had a huge IFA haul the past two years, but those guys are 18, 19 at the oldest and barely in rookie ball. I agree that they're probably a few years away, but their low-minors talent is exceptional. After the McCann trade, 11 pitchers in the minors who've hit 100. The Sox have three (although Kopech is the best of the entire bunch). |
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Post by telson13 on Nov 18, 2016 17:29:54 GMT -5
Sox could be hurt badly by an IFA draft if it's instituted this winter, given the sanctions on top of NY's ludicrous haul. I'd hope that they'd take a page from Cashman's book and look to sign immediately helpful assists who would have high trade value.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 18, 2016 17:29:56 GMT -5
You are correct, brain cramp, I was using half the teams. Average team won .5666. Still 1 title in 17 years isn't a team that has done well or deserves all the hype piled on them. They're not gods. True but in those past 17 years, when did they build they way they did in the 1990s? Until recently, not at all. They spent the first decade of the new century trying to maintain, and they've been directionless the past five years of so until this past season. The Yankees have a good farm system now. Torres and Frazier are top notch prospects. Sanchez has blossomed into a very good player. They will go into the 2019 season with some good young homegrown players and good young players acquired in trades for relievers. Add to that, they will have a ton of money to spend on great mid 20s players like Harper and Machado. And they could very well be after Otani the following year. The money is there for them. Other than Ellsbury, they've done a pretty good job clearing the decks. By the end of the decade the Yankees will be a handful, having built for the future for the first time since the 90s. They will be dangerous. They'll be competitive next season, but they're still a couple of years away from the direction they're trying to go in, but when they get there, they could be very scary good. The Yankees did that in the years of steroids and no revenue sharing. You could buy however great of a team you wanted if you had a big enough budget. They finally realized that doesn't work anymore starting in 2015 or so, but now they're competing with 20 other teams who can do the same thing they're doing. You just cannot buy a team anymore. It helps to have a huge budget to keep your own stars. But I still remain skeptical that spending billions of dollars in 2018 is going to do much in the long run. You get right back where you came from in a few years. And also, I'm skeptical that they actually have the budget anyone thinks they have. They didn't even beat us out on Moncada. I tend to think they're setting the team up to sell. |
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 18, 2016 17:59:29 GMT -5
FWIW, a couple of years ago I saw an article that reported that Yankee revenues were 350M annually from all sources...a figure that stuck in my mind. If accurate, who knows how that translates to 'buying power'? But just because they did not buy Moncada, Puig, Castillo et al doesn't mean they could not have if they thought it worth it. Goodness they have paid many millions in tax penalties in the last 12 years (more than all other teams combined by a long shot) and appear tired of doing so. They are still a financial bear second only, perhaps, to the Dodgers.
Moreover, they have done an exceptional job in trading away loose pieces to replenish a farm system that was already on the way up and maneuvered the retirement of Arod and Tex to free up $. Thus they are set up to win the big prizes in upcoming free agency years. They can get Chapman back without penalty (probably will) to reset what was a fantastic bullpen before the trades. With others returning from injury, sadly I think the Yankees will be the team to beat in the East next year and for the foreseeable future.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 18, 2016 20:59:51 GMT -5
That's really not true. This all started years ago when they let Cano go and haven't traded top prospects for years now. There problem is they don't seem to be able to develop their prospects. Sure maybe Torres and Frazier ban out because other teams developed them, but until they can continually develop player they draft they will not be a power house. I also think people are getting a little high on Sanchez. I think he can be a good player, but look at his minor league numbers. I wouldn't be shocked if he has a very disappointing year. Can you say Will Middlebrooks? Not saying he's going to flame out, but just because he had a great two months doesn't mean he's turned a corner. Guys the Owner that made the Yankees a power house is dead. I just don't get the thinking that the Yankees are getting close to being a power house. Let's wait and see if they can produce the homegrown talent needed first. Look at our roster, all our young talent and then what we have in minors, now compare to Yankees. They have a long way to go! A significant part of that has been that their just-better-than-mediocre performance has kept them in the back of draft rounds. They had a huge IFA haul the past two years, but those guys are 18, 19 at the oldest and barely in rookie ball. I agree that they're probably a few years away, but their low-minors talent is exceptional. After the McCann trade, 11 pitchers in the minors who've hit 100. The Sox have three (although Kopech is the best of the entire bunch). I don't really buy the reason the Yankees haven't been producing talent on late round draft picks. Look at 2011 Bradley, Owens, Swihart and Betts were all after first round. Out of our top 10 picks we hit on Benintendi and missed badly on Ball. What about internationally? They have all the money in the world they should have been dominating that market for years. Just recently we have got Bogarts, Devers, AE and Moncada just to name a few. Those are top notch elite prospects, top 10 to 20 prospects, who have the Yankees got? Sure guys that throw 100 are great, but can they do anything else? Give me the guys that can throw 90-95 with good off speed stuff that they can control. |
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Post by telson13 on Nov 18, 2016 23:46:19 GMT -5
A significant part of that has been that their just-better-than-mediocre performance has kept them in the back of draft rounds. They had a huge IFA haul the past two years, but those guys are 18, 19 at the oldest and barely in rookie ball. I agree that they're probably a few years away, but their low-minors talent is exceptional. After the McCann trade, 11 pitchers in the minors who've hit 100. The Sox have three (although Kopech is the best of the entire bunch). I don't really buy the reason the Yankees haven't been producing talent on late round draft picks. Look at 2011 Bradley, Owens, Swihart and Betts were all after first round. Out of our top 10 picks we hit on Benintendi and missed badly on Ball. What about internationally? They have all the money in the world they should have been dominating that market for years. Just recently we have got Bogarts, Devers, AE and Moncada just to name a few. Those are top notch elite prospects, top 10 to 20 prospects, who have the Yankees got? Sure guys that throw 100 are great, but can they do anything else? Give me the guys that can throw 90-95 with good off speed stuff that they can control. Well, the Yankees also haven't had the sort of giant draft haul like the Sox did in 2011. But I agree, they've also flubbed picks frequently in the past few years. A number of those guys have been hurt, but several haven't panned out. Kapriellian, even, has looked strong when out there but has had injury problems. They failed to sign Gerrit Cole; Slade Heathcott's been an injury mess. Jagielo was just meh (although he helped bring Chapman); Cito Culver; Holder looks like a Kolbrin Vitek. Judge...well, jury's out for now. So, yes, they missed, a lot. The Sox had a similar bad run (though not as long) from 2008-2010. But the Sox aren't a good standard to use, recently, as they had that tremendous 2011. But there are a number of stinkers (including Ball at 7), too. TB had similar issues once they started winning. By 2008 their minor league system was starting to thin out. They made a few astute trades, and have always been good at developing pitchers, but their system isn't what it once was. Hell, look at Baltimore's run of bad picks at the TOP of the draft (although Bundy may salvage that; before him only Gausman had had any success). With their resources, I wouldn't write NY off. They were bound to have some poor draft choices and developmental bad luck. I simply don't think it's guaranteed or even necessarily likely to continue. As for all of those arms...well, there's strength in numbers. They don't need every one to pan out. Even if it's 20%, that's another Betances and a pre-surgery Pineda. Or, they can flip them for established players. But, yes, if they aren't consistently developing their own low-cost stars, they're probably doomed to mediocrity by virtue of player salary/attrition. The FA smorgasbord doesn't work any more. |
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