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Sale to BOS for Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, Diaz
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Post by cwaaa on Dec 6, 2016 14:35:34 GMT -5
Burn, baby, burn. Each trade can make sense on its own and collectively be all wrong. There is very little left (aside from Devers and maybe Groome) in the system that looks like impact talent at a minimum salary in the next 3 years or so. Well here's an impact talent on an affordable salary in the system: Chris Sale.
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Post by taftreign on Dec 6, 2016 14:36:02 GMT -5
So where does this leave the team.
There is clearly at least one excess starter. Question is what do you do here? Hold onto them all in case of injury or for trade fodder at the deadline to get a missing piece. Trade one now and try to fill the 1B/DH slot?
This also puts a greater emphasis on the need to start locking up the young players with a very depleted farm system that can't be relied on to replace them. I expect this has to go into earnest starting this spring. Get at least one done.
The pen is fairly complete when you consider Smith as a possible return mid season. Perhaps they can have excess here and capitalize in the future on the escalated values of late inning arms.
This team doesn't have to have a complete replacement for Ortiz's bat. This is a tremendous offense and is well distributed. Quality pitching and defense can make this team great. While more pop would be appreciated I'm not certain finding upgrades defensively on the infield wouldn't be just as valuable or more so with this roster.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Dec 6, 2016 14:39:10 GMT -5
It could have been a lot worse but losing Moncada is gonna sting for a long time.
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Post by patrmac04 on Dec 6, 2016 14:39:57 GMT -5
I love this f'n trade. I never liked Moncada's numbers from Cuba as he never hit over 300. He didn't hit over 300 at any level of the minors and that tells me he would never do so at the MLB level. I will wait till I hear the other two pieces before truly throwing my support behind this but my initial reaction is fk yeah! We just got the best pitcher in MLB in his prime with a young core of players in the field. Dave isn't scared to bring up the guys he likes and trade the ones with value he doesn't... it's a new philosophy but one I can get used to if we can maintain a balance. If you gut your system you do it for one of the best at the position... so kudos! Same here. Moncada's k-rate terrified me. Sale is a legit Cy Young pitcher and counts only 6.5 against the luxury this year. Great trade of the two lower level guys aren't named Devers or Groome. Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, and Diaz .... Now that I know the other two, I fkn love this trade even more. It makes me feel like we found a way to get value out of the $63 million we spent to sign Moncada. I'm at work and I'm scared to stand up in case I get spontaneous wood. I gave up my season tickets after the third last place finish in four years... Sorry Ben, I'm the type of fan that helped to get you fired. This is the first move I have seen that has me legit excited to watch games again in many years.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 6, 2016 14:42:01 GMT -5
I don’t think there is much of a chance that the Sox go with 4 LHP’s in the rotation next year, for that reason I think Porcello, Wright and Buchholz likely stay, and one of Pomeranz or Rodriguez is traded for a bat. I’d be happy if it was Pomeranz, but everything we know about DD says it will be Rodriguez, which sucks (just another former top prospect to say goodbye to). People need to get over the "too many lefties in a rotation" thing. Give me the 5 best starters no matter what arm they throw from. Trade Buchholz and his useless salary.
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Post by cwaaa on Dec 6, 2016 14:42:30 GMT -5
The biggest downside to all this are the 200+ yearly "he gone"(s) that will disappear into some black hole in the universe.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 6, 2016 14:44:57 GMT -5
I don’t think there is much of a chance that the Sox go with 4 LHP’s in the rotation next year, for that reason I think Porcello, Wright and Buchholz likely stay, and one of Pomeranz or Rodriguez is traded for a bat. I’d be happy if it was Pomeranz, but everything we know about DD says it will be Rodriguez, which sucks (just another former top prospect to say goodbye to). I suspect that you are right about Pomeranz but assuming he comes back healthy (did his injury impact his pitching?) I am curious as to how he would do. Did his substandard health affect his command or endurance? I liked him out of the pen ahead of Ross. I liked Buch from the pen too particularly as he is another guy that could go multiple innings. I don't want to trade Rodriquez as the potential is enticing. If it could be done, I would be in favor of trading Price to free up a lot of bucks. He clearly is not a 31M pitcher...maybe a No 3 guy....and I could see a career path similar to Sabathia.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Dec 6, 2016 14:51:49 GMT -5
Fire Dombrowski now. First the garbage trade today that sandwiched two Franchise crippling deals with SD and CWS.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 6, 2016 14:52:09 GMT -5
They could theoretically trade anyone in the rotation now. Price, Pomeranz and Wright, probably are at a sell low point, but I'd think that Porcello or Erod could bring back a huge return and replenish the farm.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 6, 2016 14:52:12 GMT -5
Well the good thing about the system not being any good is that now we really won't have to worry about who is traded.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 6, 2016 14:53:48 GMT -5
Fire Dombrowski now. First the garbage trade today that sandwiched two Franchise crippling deals with SD and CWS. This adds absolutely nothing to the conversation and I see it as whining like a baby. You've had your 10 identical posts, now grow up.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Dec 6, 2016 14:54:21 GMT -5
Well the good thing about the system not being any good is that now we really won't have to worry about who is traded. System is arguably the worst in baseball right now. Thanks Dave. You suck.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Dec 6, 2016 14:55:12 GMT -5
I think you shop Rodriguez, Pomeranz, and Buchholz, and see what offers you get. The loss of both Shaw and (for July or August 1) Moncada makes it seem even more imperative to add a bat. And maybe a AAA (or AAAA) 3b?
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Post by kungfuizzy on Dec 6, 2016 14:55:41 GMT -5
Fire Dombrowski now. First the garbage trade today that sandwiched two Franchise crippling deals with SD and CWS. This adds absolutely nothing to the conversation and I see it as whining like a baby. You've had your 10 identical posts, now grow up. All due respect I don't see how it doesn't. It's the systematic pattern of stripping a farm barren that DD has done everywhere. This is awful.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,923
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 6, 2016 14:56:18 GMT -5
Well, there has to be one more trade here (which I imagine has been pointed out already). We no longer have a 1B for 2017 and 2018 (or a 3B, depending on where they play Sandoval), and we no longer have a 1B for the future, unless you think Sam Travis is a first-division starter, or that Sandoval will bounce back enormously (even I don't think that).
OTOH, Eduardo Rodriguez would now appear to be on the trading block. You don't need 6 starting pitchers plus Buchholz, and you don't need 4 LH. Price and Poemeranz are already DDo acquisitions. He has to have someone like Cabrera or Freeman in his sights.
I'll defer my opinion until the final shoe drops, but I'm highly skeptical that the full set of moves is an upgrade. Bought high on Sale, sold a bit low on Moncada after his dismal little trial, will be selling somewhat low on E-Rod. (I'm on the record that I wouldn't trade E-Rod for Sale even-up, so that raises the bar for the trade for the 1B. If that package had been traded for Goldschmidt, I'd be more sanguine.)
In fact, I'm kind of relieved in a weird way ... have I mentioned I'm supposed to be working on something more important?
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 6, 2016 14:56:30 GMT -5
This adds absolutely nothing to the conversation and I see it as whining like a baby. You've had your 10 identical posts, now grow up. All due respect I don't see how it doesn't. It's the systematic pattern of stripping a farm barren that DD has done everywhere. This is awful. Go look at your last 10 posts.
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Post by rookie13 on Dec 6, 2016 14:56:32 GMT -5
I don’t think there is much of a chance that the Sox go with 4 LHP’s in the rotation next year, for that reason I think Porcello, Wright and Buchholz likely stay, and one of Pomeranz or Rodriguez is traded for a bat. I’d be happy if it was Pomeranz, but everything we know about DD says it will be Rodriguez, which sucks (just another former top prospect to say goodbye to). I suspect that you are right about Pomeranz but assuming he comes back healthy (did his injury impact his pitching?) I am curious as to how he would do. Did his substandard health affect his command or endurance? I liked him out of the pen ahead of Ross. I liked Buch from the pen too particularly as he is another guy that could go multiple innings. I don't want to trade Rodriquez as the potential is enticing. If it could be done, I would be in favor of trading Price to free up a lot of bucks. He clearly is not a 31M pitcher...maybe a No 3 guy....and I could see a career path similar to Sabathia. Despite being terrible from 2014-15, Sabathia has still given the Yankees about 15M in surplus value, so it's not like he was an albatross for the Yankees.
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Post by m1keyboots on Dec 6, 2016 14:56:39 GMT -5
So we got Chris sale to DH for us? he is a lefty
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sdl
Rookie
Who the hell is Stan Papi?
Posts: 135
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Post by sdl on Dec 6, 2016 14:57:17 GMT -5
Why am I having flashbacks to 8/30/90?
Losing Kopech is going to really hurt.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 6, 2016 14:57:42 GMT -5
They could theoretically trade anyone in the rotation now. Price, Pomeranz and Wright, probably are at a sell low point, but I'd think that Porcello or Erod could bring back a huge return and replenish the farm. I'm all set with trading Eduardo Rodriguez in any fashion, the fact that they kept Eduardo and Devers in a trade for Sale is a win in it's own right.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 6, 2016 14:58:56 GMT -5
Why am I having flashbacks to 8/30/90? Losing Kopech is going to really hurt. I'm having flashbacks to the 1997 trade for one Pedro Martinez.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 6, 2016 14:59:36 GMT -5
Why am I having flashbacks to 8/30/90? Losing Kopech is going to really hurt. Yoan Moncada might very well turn into Jeff Bagwell, but I'm positive that Chris Sale ain't Larry Anderson.
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Post by geostorm on Dec 6, 2016 14:59:46 GMT -5
Reports that Sox paying entirety of Moncada's remaining deal, if true, likely helped cap the prospects package...eh
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 6, 2016 15:01:08 GMT -5
System is arguably the worst in baseball right now. Thanks Dave. You suck. Well, they still have Devers and Groome. Plus, Benny would have been the #1 prospect in all of baseball and they still have him too. But don't let logic keep you away from the delicious hot takes.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 6, 2016 15:01:29 GMT -5
Reports that Sox paying entirety of Moncada's remaining deal, if true, likely helped cap the prospects package...eh It's only money. The Sox have plenty of that and none of it goes against the luxury tax.
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