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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 22, 2017 11:39:54 GMT -5
Cristian Moreno|ESPNVerified account @cristianmorenod
Same day, separate sole death accidents of #MLB players @yordanoventura & Andy Marte, similar circumstance; both said to be under influence.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jan 22, 2017 11:52:47 GMT -5
Unbelievably horrifying. Really time for players to start taking drunk driving more seriously even when returning home for the offseason.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 22, 2017 13:24:03 GMT -5
I had something longer written about Ventura that I kept editing and deleting and trying to express again, but the words weren't quite right. so I'll be brief: He was young and fiery and talented and in a lot of ways he exemplified what makes baseball so exciting to me. This is a really sad day.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 22, 2017 14:11:36 GMT -5
Unbelievably horrifying. Really time for players people to start taking drunk driving more seriously even when returning home for the offseason. Fixed that for you. This isn't a baseball player thing. It's a human thing.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 22, 2017 15:55:38 GMT -5
Horrendous news. Such awful needless deaths.
Ventura was a guy that had a lot of talent. I remember Pedro talking about that talent. Ventura will always be remembered as a key part of that 2015 Championship Royals team.
Marte is a guy I remembered well. I was absolutely thrilled that not only the Red Sox got rid of Renteria but they got Marte for him. I was convinced that Marte was going to be a superstar. Looking back at his numbers and young age at the time, if I didn't know he wasn't going to make it in the majors, I still would have been convinced he was going to be a star. I remember when the Sox got him, I figured they'd keep him, have a young up-and-coming all-star at 3b, and flip the newly obtained Mike Lowell, coming off an awful season.
Instead Theo came back (did he ever really leave that time?) and flipped Marte, instead, in the Coco Crisp deal. I hated that deal because I wasn't that enamored with Crisp and I thought Marte had star written all over him.
Looking at their ages, it's really, really sad, and I echo what Nomar said and what Chris edited. The impact of what drunk driving is cannot be understated. I just hope more people don't have to die so it can be understood how serious and horrendous it is.
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 22, 2017 15:59:09 GMT -5
I hate the "said to be under the influence" stuff in stories. Why not wait for some confirmation before jumping on that part of the story?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 22, 2017 18:26:44 GMT -5
Just read somewhere that Andy Marte's last at bat in the major leagues was indeed against Ventura. Freaking weird stuff if that's true.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 22, 2017 23:09:24 GMT -5
Just read somewhere that Andy Marte's last at bat in the major leagues was indeed against Ventura. Freaking weird stuff if that's true. Easily checked and not true, although kind of close. Ventura started the game, but Marte entered in the ninth as a pinch hitter and faced Greg Holland. www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ARI/ARI201408060.shtml
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 22, 2017 23:30:30 GMT -5
Just read somewhere that Andy Marte's last at bat in the major leagues was indeed against Ventura. Freaking weird stuff if that's true. Easily checked and not true, although kind of close. Ventura started the game, but Marte entered in the ninth as a pinch hitter and faced Greg Holland. www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ARI/ARI201408060.shtmlOhh okay. My bad. Sorry. I wasn't too sure.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 23, 2017 14:33:02 GMT -5
... But those dark waters exist in every community, from baseball towns to small towns to churches to university and medical communities. I moved from Boston in part to escape its racism and bias which thrived at every level, Irish to Italian to Portuguese to Asian to Jew to Hispanic to Black; Catholic to Protestant to Hindu; Yankee to immigrant, Ivy League to Boston College to Bridgewater State. It was a mess, dominated by good Ole boys from each group. When my career took me to several states around this nation, I learned that the same systems exist everywhere. San Diego is no different and.no better or worse in this regard. There is so much wrong everywhere that while we have to fight it constantly, we also need to live and thrive in the best place we can find, for ourselves and our families. . That said, San Diego is one of those places that if I were fortunate enough to be a young ballplayer offered a king's ransom to live and work and play and settle down in San Diego, warts and all, I would happily do so. Couldn't agree more, and I didn't have to learn it after I moved. I left New England because of that "wiring". As one example, I would never have had the opportunities that were all around me as an under-grad in Las Vegas. Others went off to deal cards at the strip which was lucrative and you could move up if you were sharp. I was offered a waiter's job upstairs in one of the expensive restaurants at a very large hotel/casino where the tips would have kept me very happy. Instead, I walked across the street from the UNLV campus and got a job doing mathematical analysis, and computer programming for the two-year old EPA and for their business partners. I was on my way with an opportunity I would have been hard-pressed to get in Boston. Those jobs are plums and many of them were picked off the tree by those with the right credentials back then. They call it juice in Vegas, and I didn't need any except for what I'd shown in school. My point is that picture postcard stuff isn't the only reason to pitch a town. San Diego has some of the finest climate in the country (if you stay out of the fog belt). But there's a bit more to consider if you're building a future.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 23, 2017 14:40:00 GMT -5
So apparently Ventura wasn't drinking and driving during his accident. Shame on the ESPN reporter that reported that.
He was driving through foggy conditions in a mountainous area and lost control of his vehicle. It was just a bad accident.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 23, 2017 14:42:49 GMT -5
So apparently Ventura wasn't drinking and driving during his accident. Shame on the ESPN reporter that reported that. He was driving through foggy conditions in a mountainous area and lost control of his vehicle. It was just a bad accident. "Dodd adds that police will take three weeks to complete a toxicology report, but there was no sign of alcohol at the scene of Ventura’s crash. The pitcher was not wearing his seat belt and lost control of his vehicle while driving through dense fog on a mountainous road." He just didn't wear his seat belt. Which was dumb but he didn't commit any crime.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 23, 2017 15:16:46 GMT -5
This is very sad. He had enormous potential, with great stuff and he was a fierce competitor. Tough for KC, tough for his family. Just tough.
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Post by mattpicard on Jan 23, 2017 19:05:37 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 8m8 minutes ago Source confirms: DeLeon going from #Dodgers to #Rays in deal for Forsythe. Trade agreed upon, per @tbtimesrays.
Damn. Forsythe is very solid, but you gotta love this for the Rays. Can't believe this is a one-for-one.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 23, 2017 19:34:52 GMT -5
Forsythe is signed cheap for the next two years and he fills an obvious hole on a contender. DeLeon strikes me more of a polished mid-rotation type, though one who's ready now. A third starter for a starting second baseman by a team that has a good staff and needs a second baseman seems about right to me.
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Post by mattpicard on Jan 23, 2017 22:47:07 GMT -5
6+ cost controlled years of a 24-year-old MLB-ready #3 starter in exchange for 2 years of a 30-year-old 2B @ $15.5M, who before 2015 couldn't hit a right-handed pitching to save his life. That's not to say I'm not a Forsythe fan -- he's good now, and he's a terrific alternative to Dozier -- but while I don't think this is a terrible trade for LA or anything, it's tough not to view this deal as a nice win for Tampa Bay.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 24, 2017 8:56:34 GMT -5
lol, Evan doesn't like it (I assume they don't mean Eva):
Marc TopkinVerified account @tbtimes_Rays
#Rays Longoria on Forsythe deal: "I'm surprised and upset at losing a player, clubhouse presence and friend like Logan. He's a rare player''
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rjp313jr
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 24, 2017 9:04:11 GMT -5
6+ cost controlled years of a 24-year-old MLB-ready #3 starter in exchange for 2 years of a 30-year-old 2B @ $15.5M, who before 2015 couldn't hit a right-handed pitching to save his life. That's not to say I'm not a Forsythe fan -- he's good now, and he's a terrific alternative to Dozier -- but while I don't think this is a terrible trade for LA or anything, it's tough not to view this deal as a nice win for Tampa Bay. I don't think the Dodgers are overly concerned about money.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 24, 2017 9:07:03 GMT -5
Well this deal does make the Rays worse in 2017, which sends a bad message to Longoria. If I was Longoria, I'd just ask to be traded and get it over with. The Rays are sending a weird message of trying to get younger and trying to compete, which almost never works. Pick one side of the fence or the other. Rebuild or trade to make your 2017 team better. Not do both and literally go nowhere.
Now that the Rays have DeLeon, I would suspect that Oddorizi is next to be traded and Alex Cobb also being traded if he gets anything of value by the trade deadline.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 24, 2017 9:45:45 GMT -5
There's a fair chance that De Leon could be better than Forsythe this year. Of course Longoria is upset that his friend got traded - that's natural human behavior.
As for the Rays, they could certainly move one more arm. By the way, I completely missed that Brad Miller hit 30 home runs last year.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 24, 2017 10:01:07 GMT -5
6+ cost controlled years of a 24-year-old MLB-ready #3 starter in exchange for 2 years of a 30-year-old 2B @ $15.5M, who before 2015 couldn't hit a right-handed pitching to save his life. That's not to say I'm not a Forsythe fan -- he's good now, and he's a terrific alternative to Dozier -- but while I don't think this is a terrible trade for LA or anything, it's tough not to view this deal as a nice win for Tampa Bay. Yeah, it's certainly a good deal for Tampa Bay. Didn't mean to say it's some huge win for the Dodgers, just that it's sensible - particularly given their strengths and the second base market.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 24, 2017 23:29:43 GMT -5
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Post by soxfanatic on Jan 25, 2017 5:47:30 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 25, 2017 9:21:02 GMT -5
If I worked for a national publication I'd save a writeup of the Toronto Blue Jays getting a low-OBP, high-SLG catcher with questionable defense and just CTRL+F and replace the player's name every January. (They'd have foiled me for a couple years with the Russell Martin thing, but at least he's Canadian).
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 25, 2017 11:20:08 GMT -5
Interesting article comparing the results for the 4 major projecting systems for pitching here: (there's also a link for the hitters) www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2017/1/25/14366728/pecota-zips-steamer-marcel-projecting-pitchers-graded But the overall conclusion would seem to be that these systems don’t have very distinct specialties – they’re good/bad/mediocre in all subgroups. For 2016 at least, it was Steamer that was good, PECOTA that was mediocre, and ZiPS that was bad. Again, this is not a particularly robust set of results, based as it is on a single year, but it’s tempting to perhaps draw some conclusions about the methodological differences between the systems. ZiPS is the one that most wholeheartedly embraces DIPS, and it may be that it’s an outdated or inaccurate conception of pitching. PECOTA is based on player comps, while Steamer most resembles a more complex version of Marcel, incorporating more variables and tweaks on the margins. Based on these results at least, it would seem that Steamer and Marcel’s approach is not only the basic one, but the most accurate one.
The final takeaway: Marcel is beatable, but doing so consistently remains very difficult. It gets us across the easy 90 percent of projecting performance; the other systems try to cross that final 10 percent, and that’s the hard part.
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