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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 30, 2017 11:59:45 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 30, 2017 14:11:50 GMT -5
Cardinals' to 2 picks this June (2nd round and comp. B round) and $2 million to Houston.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jan 30, 2017 14:16:27 GMT -5
I thought the Cards got off easy.. I expected they would lose a 1st round pick and at least $10 million in fines. The Kaplan article over the weekend was pretty damanaging outlining the extent and length in which the Cardinals cheated the Astros.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 30, 2017 14:18:05 GMT -5
Picks and money go to Houston. I agree they got off light but this draft is destroyed.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,814
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 30, 2017 14:34:45 GMT -5
Does anyone still want to pretend the Sox's punishment wasn't a personal agenda by the commish?
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Post by telson13 on Jan 30, 2017 15:03:50 GMT -5
Does anyone still want to pretend the Sox's punishment wasn't a personal agenda by the commish? In light of this, and the ridiculously soft (non-) punishment of Preller? Yeah, it's pretty obvious at this point.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 30, 2017 15:14:45 GMT -5
Does anyone still want to pretend the Sox's punishment wasn't a personal agenda by the commish? In light of this, and the ridiculously soft (non-) punishment of Preller? Yeah, it's pretty obvious at this point. Not sure what Manfred would gain by having a personal issue with the Sox. It was his first year and his first big scandal. Could one of you guys elaborate? However, I am pretty friggin pissed right now, mostly because Preller was serial cheater and he literally paid no price but a suspension. He should have been fired and blackballed from the game.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 30, 2017 15:24:52 GMT -5
Correa is serving 46 months in Federal Prison, but the crimes are hardly comparable
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Post by telson13 on Jan 30, 2017 15:25:40 GMT -5
In light of this, and the ridiculously soft (non-) punishment of Preller? Yeah, it's pretty obvious at this point. Not sure what Manfred would gain by having a personal issue with the Sox. It was his first year and his first big scandal. Could one of you guys elaborate? However, I am pretty friggin pissed right now, mostly because Preller was serial cheater and he literally paid no price but a suspension. He should have been fired and blackballed from the game. Oh, I'm being entirely speculative. But there does seem to be shockingly little consistency in the severity of punishment relative to the infraction, and the Sox got monumentally hosed for an industry-wide practice (see: Spygate), while flagrant, malicious, and (in the case of St Louis, criminal) acts were punished *far* more leniently. $2M and their top two picks-2nd and comp B? The Sox lost their players from one IFA period and were banned from the next. That's exponentially worse punishment.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 30, 2017 15:30:30 GMT -5
What the Red Sox did is not industry-wide practice. Packaging players is done all the time - actually funneling money through players to other ones to skirt signing restrictions is not.
The severity of the Red Sox penalty wasn't just to punish the Red Sox, it was to set a precedent that they are going to treat teams playing games with the CBA and signing caps very, very harshly. It was to act both as a punishment and as a deterrent.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,814
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 30, 2017 15:43:03 GMT -5
In light of this, and the ridiculously soft (non-) punishment of Preller? Yeah, it's pretty obvious at this point. Not sure what Manfred would gain by having a personal issue with the Sox. It was his first year and his first big scandal. Could one of you guys elaborate? However, I am pretty friggin pissed right now, mostly because Preller was serial cheater and he literally paid no price but a suspension. He should have been fired and blackballed from the game. Tom Werner (whom I hate) didn't pull out of the race for commissioner. Additionally, this follows Selig's pattern of giving preferential treatment to small market teams.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 30, 2017 16:24:01 GMT -5
The other key piece here is MLB charged that Correa was only STL employee with knowledge of the hacking. The Red Sox was a system issue with multiple layers to it.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jan 30, 2017 16:40:41 GMT -5
What the Red Sox did is not industry-wide practice. Packaging players is done all the time - actually funneling money through players to other ones to skirt signing restrictions is not. The severity of the Red Sox penalty wasn't just to punish the Red Sox, it was to set a precedent that they are going to treat teams playing games with the CBA and signing caps very, very harshly. It was to act both as a punishment and as a deterrent. I think you could make the same argument about what Correa did the Astros under the employ of the Cardinals. It speaks to the integrity of the game to quote the worst commissioner in sports. No other team has been accused of spying on other organizations to the extent that Correa did against the Astros. The punishment was very light in my opinion, particularly given that the Cardinals did not even lose a 1st round pick and the $ 2 million fine is chump change to the Cardinals. Manfred could have sent a much stronger message by punishing them by taking away their top two picks in 2017 as well as their 1st round pick in 2018, plus $10 million. Here is Kaplan's article from the Houston Chronicle over the weekend. www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/astros/article/As-MLB-ruling-nears-new-details-of-Cardinals-10891605.php?t=b7382ab8b3438d9cbb&cmpid=twitter-premium
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 30, 2017 16:43:21 GMT -5
Or a similar punishment to what the Red Sox got, just take away all of their draft money and picks this year.
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Post by bigpupp on Jan 30, 2017 16:56:33 GMT -5
I still have no problems with what the Red Sox got for their punishment. The thing this makes me upset about is how easy Preller got off, but that's a discussion for another time.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 30, 2017 17:06:44 GMT -5
Not sure what Manfred would gain by having a personal issue with the Sox. It was his first year and his first big scandal. Could one of you guys elaborate? However, I am pretty friggin pissed right now, mostly because Preller was serial cheater and he literally paid no price but a suspension. He should have been fired and blackballed from the game. Tom Werner (whom I hate) didn't pull out of the race for commissioner. Additionally, this follows Selig's pattern of giving preferential treatment to small market teams. I think you're missing the real reason the league came down so hard on the Red Sox: undermining the league's cost controls on amateur talent. It's not personal. It's strictly business.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,814
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Post by wcp3 on Jan 30, 2017 17:26:10 GMT -5
Tom Werner (whom I hate) didn't pull out of the race for commissioner. Additionally, this follows Selig's pattern of giving preferential treatment to small market teams. I think you're missing the real reason the league came down so hard on the Red Sox: undermining the league's cost controls on amateur talent. It's not personal. It's strictly business. I've always said I don't mind the penalties on the Red Sox. But the Cardinals (predictably) got off easy.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 30, 2017 18:09:52 GMT -5
I think you're missing the real reason the league came down so hard on the Red Sox: undermining the league's cost controls on amateur talent. It's not personal. It's strictly business. I've always said I don't mind the penalties on the Red Sox. But the Cardinals (predictably) got off easy.Well, they weren't undermining the league's cost controls.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 30, 2017 19:50:32 GMT -5
I've always said I don't mind the penalties on the Red Sox. But the Cardinals (predictably) got off easy.Well, they weren't undermining the league's cost controls. In a court of law, one guy is going to prison, which speaks directly to the criminality of the offense. Correa being an employee / agent of the Cardinals makes them equally, if not more, culpable. Lack of institutional control in NCAA can lead teams to forfeit games (championships) based on an employee's actions (see Syracuse Basketball). The Patriots suffered because of one of their ballboys was supposedly screwing around with league equipment, and their QB destroyed evidence (not saying that was his intent, but he did it), and they got severly punished. MLB would have been totally justified with any penalty they gave. The rogue employee thing, while probably true, doesn't preclude any level of prescribed punishment doled out by the league.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 30, 2017 22:55:35 GMT -5
From Fangraph's newsletter (email):
Our Initial Speculation on the Cardinals' Hacking Punishment, Revisited Shortly after news broke that the FBI would investigate the Cardinals for illegally accessing the Astros' computer network, FanGraphs' own Nathaniel Grow published a piece analyzing what potential punishments might look like. Now, nearly a year and a half later, we know what those punishments are.
MLB announced this afternoon that the Cardinals must pay a $2 million fine and give their two highest draft picks to the Astros. (Since the Cardinals already gave up their first-round pick by virtue of signing the QO'd Dexter Fowler, that means they'll be giving up the 56th and 75th picks this year.) As it turns out, most of Grow's initial speculation was just about spot on. A monetary fine was the most likely outcome, he initially noted. The permanent ban of front office employee Chris Correa, who was found responsible for the hack, is also right there—though a bit of a step beyond the "suspension from baseball" that we originally felt would be likely.
Navigating the precedent for the draft picks is a little bit trickier, however. Grow wrote at the time that the lack of historical examples here could make it difficult for MLB to rationalize stripping the Cards of a draft pick or two: "this would appear to be the first time that an MLB commissioner has exercised his authority under the league constitution to do the same. In fact, to the extent there is any prior precedent on the issue, it does not favor MLB. Back in 1976, Commissioner Bowie Kuhn tried to strip the Atlanta Braves of a draft pick for tampering with free agent Gary Matthews, only to have a court overturn the penalty because the commissioner had not yet been granted such a power under the league constitution." Now, however, the owners have ceded that power to the commissioner—and for the first time, it's been put into practice.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2017 3:17:36 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 31, 2017 22:11:31 GMT -5
WILY MO!!!! YAH BABY! WOOOOOO!
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 31, 2017 23:27:40 GMT -5
He hit #dingers like nobody else could
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 31, 2017 23:32:20 GMT -5
Nick Hagadone signed a minor league deal with the Mariners. Hasn't pitched since surgery on an elbow fracture in 2015. Signed a minor league deal with Atlanta last year but failed the physical.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 1, 2017 8:50:10 GMT -5
WILY MO!!!! YAH BABY! WOOOOOO!
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