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Post by bluechip on Mar 1, 2019 10:20:43 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 1, 2019 10:32:29 GMT -5
He will go 3-0 against the Red Sox. Those games will take a combined 71 hours and will include 2,790 throws to first base. In the first two starts he will allow 8 runs on 11 hits in 10 2/3 innings, walking 8 and striking out 7, getting the wins anyway. In the third start, during that July 4 series, he'll allow one hit in seven shutout innings, striking out nine, walking nobody, hitting two batters. He will then go on the DL immediately after that start with soreness in his abdomen. He will be "about a week away" for the next two and a half months, before coming back for one final start of the season.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Mar 1, 2019 10:59:28 GMT -5
For as injury-plagued and often inefficient as he is, Clay’s made a decent career for himself, at least. I’m happy for him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 1, 2019 11:56:29 GMT -5
More frustrating to watch, Buchholz or Dice-K?
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 1, 2019 11:58:01 GMT -5
He's a decent, valuable pitcher, in the most frustrating way imaginable. B-Ref has him at tick behind Rick Porcello in career value, tied with Dallas Keuchel, ahead of Jorge De La Rosa, Francisco Liriano, and Ian Kennedy. He's one mediocre season from being in the JAWS top 500 pitchers of all time. The throws to first base though. More frustrating to watch, Buchholz or Dice-K? I love this question. I'm voting Buchholz, because he was good for so much longer. Such a huge part of the Buchholz frustration was that he was legitimately good. There was never a point where you could rationally be like "just cut him!" EDIT: No way am I telling anyone who thinks it's Matsuzaka that they're wrong, though.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 1, 2019 12:54:46 GMT -5
More frustrating to watch, Buchholz or Dice-K? Love it. In an individual game, Dice-K. Couldn't take the nibbling he resorted to, or the 4 2/3 inning starts. Year to year? Buchholz, because he'd always draw me back in, whereas we kinda knew what Dice-K was in year 3.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 1, 2019 15:00:01 GMT -5
Maybe someday I'll tell the Dice-K SoxProspects spring training trip story. Not today though.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 1, 2019 16:13:33 GMT -5
What's amazing is that Josh Beckett, probably the third-most frustrating pitcher of my life, is also only the third-most frustrating pitcher of his era. Can't even put him close to second.
No wonder we all remember Jon Lester so fondly.
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Post by Mike Andrews on Mar 1, 2019 16:35:15 GMT -5
Don't cross the streams. It would be bad.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 1, 2019 17:04:57 GMT -5
Maybe someday I'll tell the Dice-K SoxProspects spring training trip story. Not today though. You're going to tease us and leave us wanting more? That's so like Daisuke.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 1, 2019 18:02:39 GMT -5
Maybe someday I'll tell the Dice-K SoxProspects spring training trip story. Not today though. You're going to tease us and leave us wanting more? That's so like Daisuke. It's like waiting for his next pitch.
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Post by bluechip on Mar 1, 2019 19:18:29 GMT -5
Maybe someday I'll tell the Dice-K SoxProspects spring training trip story. Not today though. You're going to tease us and leave us wanting more? That's so like Daisuke. Like his career... lots of hype before it starts, but ultimately disappointing...
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 2, 2019 0:16:12 GMT -5
Don't cross the streams. It would be bad.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Mar 2, 2019 1:42:20 GMT -5
Don't cross the streams. It would be bad. I understand the allusion you're making but it's just making me speculate all the more wildly about the details of the story. This needs to be on the next episode of the pod.
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Post by GyIantosca on Mar 2, 2019 7:21:28 GMT -5
The FO dropped the ball on Lester. Did anyone take the blame for that? Was the Larry or Ben? Terrible call. Lester was our’s .
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 2, 2019 8:48:19 GMT -5
The FO dropped the ball on Lester. Did anyone take the blame for that? Was the Larry or Ben? Terrible call. Lester was our’s . Would they have won the WS last year if they didn't?
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Post by Smittyw on Mar 2, 2019 11:08:17 GMT -5
The opening offer to Lester was low, but refusing to counter or engage in any further negotiations for fear of "looking greedy" was all on him...change my mind.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 2, 2019 11:45:07 GMT -5
The FO dropped the ball on Lester. Did anyone take the blame for that? Was the Larry or Ben? Terrible call. Lester was our’s . Would they have won the WS last year if they didn't? Doesn't mean they were correct to let Lester go. I mean John Henry even said it was a mistake. If the owner himself admits it was a mistake then why is it so hard to say it was a mistake. We all make mistakes and sometimes good things come from it - just like the Sox winning the World Series because they wound up having to allocate additional resources to sign David Price. But that doesn't mean that the Sox handled the Jon Lester situation correctly. It ultimately worked out but I'd hate to see them approach free agency with Mookie Betts or even Chris Sale the way they did with Lester.
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Post by GyIantosca on Mar 2, 2019 11:58:34 GMT -5
The FO dropped the ball on Lester. Did anyone take the blame for that? Was the Larry or Ben? Terrible call. Lester was our’s . Would they have won the WS last year if they didn't? How the hell do I know do you?
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 2, 2019 11:58:50 GMT -5
Would they have won the WS last year if they didn't? Doesn't mean they were correct to let Lester go. I mean John Henry even said it was a mistake. If the owner himself admits it was a mistake then why is it so hard to say it was a mistake. We all make mistakes and sometimes good things come from it - just like the Sox winning the World Series because they wound up having to allocate additional resources to sign David Price. But that doesn't mean that the Sox handled the Jon Lester situation correctly. It ultimately worked out but I'd hate to see them approach free agency with Mookie Betts or even Chris Sale the way they did with Lester. I asked a question and that's it. Every single thing that can be said about Lester has been said a million times so I don't want to rehash it again. But if they had Lester, they definitely would not have had Sale or Price. And Lester has fallen off a lot since he signed with the Cubs and it's masked because he's no longer in the AL East. Hell, the Lester fiasco may be why Dombrowski is here at all.
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Post by GyIantosca on Mar 2, 2019 12:10:01 GMT -5
Okay Kopech was drafted 2014, Moncada signed 2015. Lester was traded the middle of 2014. So why wouldn’t we of still gotten Sale? Sale was a power move by the front office. Who was still under a favorable contract .
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 2, 2019 12:18:41 GMT -5
Okay Kopech was drafted 2014, Moncada signed 2015. Lester was traded the middle of 2014. So why wouldn’t we of still gotten Sale? Sale was a power move by the front office. Who was still under a favorable contract . Because they wouldn't have needed him as much with a full rotation. Also, Lester probably wouldn't even have made the postseason rotation last year. His xFIP was a full half run higher than anyone else including ERod.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 2, 2019 13:16:58 GMT -5
Doesn't mean they were correct to let Lester go. I mean John Henry even said it was a mistake. If the owner himself admits it was a mistake then why is it so hard to say it was a mistake. We all make mistakes and sometimes good things come from it - just like the Sox winning the World Series because they wound up having to allocate additional resources to sign David Price. But that doesn't mean that the Sox handled the Jon Lester situation correctly. It ultimately worked out but I'd hate to see them approach free agency with Mookie Betts or even Chris Sale the way they did with Lester. I asked a question and that's it. Every single thing that can be said about Lester has been said a million times so I don't want to rehash it again. But if they had Lester, they definitely would not have had Sale or Price. And Lester has fallen off a lot since he signed with the Cubs and it's masked because he's no longer in the AL East. Hell, the Lester fiasco may be why Dombrowski is here at all. No, Lester was on Lucchino. Dombrowski is here because of Hanley and Sandoval. That was purely Cherington. And you can't really play that game with what ifs as much. Maybe the Sox don't win with Lester in 2018. Maybe they would have won in 2016 with Lester. Who really knows? I'll go with what happened rather than what could have happened. I mean it's like the Hanley+Sanchez/Beckett+Lowell deal. Maybe the Sox don't win in 07 without Lowell and Beckett (they most likely don't), but maybe they would have won in 2008 or 2009 with Sanchez and Hanley instead of Lowell and Beckett. Who really knows? Again I'll go with a good reality than a theoretical what if, but the point is that one door might have opened and another might have closed. It's the butterfly effect. John Henry said they make a mistake with Lester. I'd guess he's talking the way negotiations were broached. It's ok to admit that mistakes happen. It seems like in these situations fans either want the pitch forks or they want to lawyer up for their favorite team. Either way it was honest what Henry said and I respect him for it.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 2, 2019 13:20:04 GMT -5
I asked a question and that's it. Every single thing that can be said about Lester has been said a million times so I don't want to rehash it again. But if they had Lester, they definitely would not have had Sale or Price. And Lester has fallen off a lot since he signed with the Cubs and it's masked because he's no longer in the AL East. Hell, the Lester fiasco may be why Dombrowski is here at all. No, Lester was on Lucchino. Dombrowski is here because of Hanley and Sandoval. That was purely Cherington. And you can't really play that game with what ifs as much. Maybe the Sox don't win with Lester in 2018. Maybe they would have won in 2016 with Lester. Who really knows? I'll go with what happened rather than what could have happened. I mean it's like the Hanley+Sanchez/Beckett+Lowell deal. Maybe the Sox don't win in 07 without Lowell and Beckett (they most likely don't), but maybe they would have won in 2008 or 2009 with Sanchez and Hanley instead of Lowell and Beckett. Who really knows? Again I'll go with a good reality than a theoretical what if, but the point is that one door might have opened and another might have closed. It's the butterfly effect. John Henry said they make a mistake with Lester. I'd guess he's talking the way negotiations were broached. It's ok to admit that mistakes happen. It seems like in these situations fans either want the pitch forks or they want to lawyer up for their favorite team. Either way it was honest what Henry said and I respect him for it. Really the way I look at it, the championship in 2018 erases everything that happened with Lester. There is no point in talking about it anymore. They already admitted it was a mistake which indicates that they will NOT be doing it again so there is no point in going over it again and again and again. Let's talk about Trey Ball instead. The people that repeat mistakes are the ones that don't even acknowledge that they were mistakes to begin with.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 2, 2019 13:57:28 GMT -5
No, Lester was on Lucchino. Dombrowski is here because of Hanley and Sandoval. That was purely Cherington. And you can't really play that game with what ifs as much. Maybe the Sox don't win with Lester in 2018. Maybe they would have won in 2016 with Lester. Who really knows? I'll go with what happened rather than what could have happened. I mean it's like the Hanley+Sanchez/Beckett+Lowell deal. Maybe the Sox don't win in 07 without Lowell and Beckett (they most likely don't), but maybe they would have won in 2008 or 2009 with Sanchez and Hanley instead of Lowell and Beckett. Who really knows? Again I'll go with a good reality than a theoretical what if, but the point is that one door might have opened and another might have closed. It's the butterfly effect. John Henry said they make a mistake with Lester. I'd guess he's talking the way negotiations were broached. It's ok to admit that mistakes happen. It seems like in these situations fans either want the pitch forks or they want to lawyer up for their favorite team. Either way it was honest what Henry said and I respect him for it. Really the way I look at it, the championship in 2018 erases everything that happened with Lester. There is no point in talking about it anymore. They already admitted it was a mistake which indicates that they will NOT be doing it again so there is no point in going over it again and again and again. Let's talk about Trey Ball instead. The people that repeat mistakes are the ones that don't even acknowledge that they were mistakes to begin with. Nah, Trey Ball is boring. I'd prefer to talk about Bagwell for Andersen, Cater for Lyle, and selling Babe Ruth.
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