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Where are they now?: The former Sox thread
Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2019 7:02:56 GMT -5
Hadn't heard of this guy before, but looked him up on baseball reference, and it seems he was an all star with BOS in 1993 and 1994, but his career sputtered out after that. Interesting to see another sports-politics conversion.
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Post by James Dunne on May 15, 2019 7:13:10 GMT -5
Hadn't heard of this guy before, but looked him up on baseball reference, and it seems he was an all star with BOS in 1993 and 1994, but his career sputtered out after that. Interesting to see another sports-politics conversion. It's a joke - this is a different Scott Cooper. Scott Cooper the baseball player got a worse rep than he deserved because a) he made those All-Star teams on some pretty mediocre Red Sox squads, b) his presence was the reason they thought they could trade Jeff Bagwell and let Wade Boggs go, and c) he was a third baseman whose best tool was his arm and then he busted his shoulder and that was that. The 1994 AS selection was particularly egregious when he, and not Clemens, was the team's only rep because people still paid attention to W-L.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 15, 2019 12:52:08 GMT -5
Hadn't heard of this guy before, but looked him up on baseball reference, and it seems he was an all star with BOS in 1993 and 1994, but his career sputtered out after that. Interesting to see another sports-politics conversion. It's a joke - this is a different Scott Cooper. Scott Cooper the baseball player got a worse rep than he deserved because a) he made those All-Star teams on some pretty mediocre Red Sox squads, b) his presence was the reason they thought they could trade Jeff Bagwell and let Wade Boggs go, and c) he was a third baseman whose best tool was his arm and then he busted his shoulder and that was that. The 1994 AS selection was particularly egregious when he, and not Clemens, was the team's only rep because people still paid attention to W-L. Yeesh, the mention of Scott Cooper does bring back all of those memories when he was the Red Sox all-star by default (and yes, Clemens DID pitch well in 1994, which a lot of people do forget as he had no run support whatsoever but kept a very low ERA during a season where the offense went crazy). The funny thing was that Houston really wanted a young pitcher named Dave Owens and were also interested in Kevin Morton (and Cooper, too), but the Sox wanted to keep all of those guys (Morton was a legit prospect who looked like he could have a future). I'm trying to remember - wasn't Scott Cooper dealt away to St. Louis in the Mark Whiten deal (I think the useful Rheal Cormier was in the deal, too)? I remember that I was excited about getting a slugging RF in Whiten, but he didn't hit a lick, and I think he was dealt midseason to Philly for Dave Hollins who after Boston, wound up in Minnesota I think and wound up being traded to Seattle for some young prospect named David Arias, who I think turned out to be a decent ballplayer, but not overly memorable with the Twins Anyways Whiten was one of the most disappointing acquisitions I can remember the Sox having. I mean he hit absolutely nothing with Boston. It opened the door up for Troy O'Leary, though.
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Post by James Dunne on May 15, 2019 13:01:09 GMT -5
Dan Duquette had a very, very, VERY bad habit of giving up on people after a bad month, and Mark Whiten was one of the guys in that category.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 15, 2019 14:09:25 GMT -5
Dan Duquette had a very, very, VERY bad habit of giving up on people after a bad month, and Mark Whiten was one of the guys in that category. It's funny but my memory failed me a bit on Whiten. When you said 1 bad month, I thought the guy had about 200 - 250 ABs of being horrible, but in reality it was only 108 ABs, and he hit a lot better when he was dealt to Philly afterwards. I remember being excited with the Red Sox acquired him. He had a 4 HR game the year before, and had been good the previous two seasons and had a strong arm in RF. They called him "hard hittin' Mark Whiten", but I remember him being awful and thinking of him as "s*** hittin' Mark Whiten", but I digress. In 1995, Duquette did push a lot of right buttons (I guess we can give Mike Gimble some credit for that as well), as the Sox went from being a really bad ballclub - I think they would have totally free fallen had the 1994 strike hadn't occurred (they were terrible during the Butch Hobson era) to being the best team in the AL East. At one point they had like a 14 game lead on NY before they slumped in September and won by 7 games, which was their biggest margin of victory for a division crown - until 2018.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on May 15, 2019 15:30:52 GMT -5
I was a big Whiten proponent when he came over (hence the avi). It did NOT work out.
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Post by RedSoxStats on May 15, 2019 17:12:35 GMT -5
I always thought Anderson was the second best pitching prospect after Groome, nice to see him called up.
He looks good from what I saw today, he threw just about everything strictly down and away to hitters.
His pitches, especially his 4-seamer, are straight as an arrow though.
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Post by vermontsox1 on May 15, 2019 17:25:26 GMT -5
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 19, 2019 18:49:50 GMT -5
Thank you Koji san for the greatest season by a Red Sox closer I've ever witnessed.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 19, 2019 19:56:54 GMT -5
Thank you Koji san for the greatest season by a Red Sox closer I've ever witnessed. I would say in about 4 years the Sox will/should be honoring the 2013 team. I hope Koji makes it to that or at least to his Red Sox HOF induction ceremony given that he pitched 4 years with the team - he should definitely make the Red Sox Hall of Fame in which the minimum is 3 years with the Red Sox. I'd just like to see him again at some point. He set the gold standard of what virtual closer perfection looked like. I still can't wrap my head around his 101K/9 BB (2 intentional) ratio. I never felt a lead was more safe in the 9th than at any point in my long fandom than I did in 2013 with Koji. He was a total joy to watch. I'd say my first favorite was Pedro and my second favorite was Koji. Somehow he came in even ahead of Clemens, who was a lot of fun to watch when he was a Red Sox (a lot of people here don't remember Roger as a Red Sox and only think of him as a Yankee) - but he was exciting to watch. You never knew for sure if he'd strike out 20 or not. I wish I was old enough to remember Tiant. I'm sure he was a blast to watch, too.
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Post by James Dunne on May 19, 2019 21:41:48 GMT -5
My lord did I love that dude.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 19, 2019 21:44:07 GMT -5
I just took a minute to go over the 2013 Red Sox b-ref page and man... that was a weirder team than you probably remember.
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Post by telson13 on May 19, 2019 22:04:20 GMT -5
Thank you Koji san for the greatest season by a Red Sox closer I've ever witnessed. I would say in about 4 years the Sox will/should be honoring the 2013 team. I hope Koji makes it to that or at least to his Red Sox HOF induction ceremony given that he pitched 4 years with the team - he should definitely make the Red Sox Hall of Fame in which the minimum is 3 years with the Red Sox. I'd just like to see him again at some point. He set the gold standard of what virtual closer perfection looked like. I still can't wrap my head around his 101K/9 BB (2 intentional) ratio. I never felt a lead was more safe in the 9th than at any point in my long fandom than I did in 2013 with Koji. He was a total joy to watch. I'd say my first favorite was Pedro and my second favorite was Koji. Somehow he came in even ahead of Clemens, who was a lot of fun to watch when he was a Red Sox (a lot of people here don't remember Roger as a Red Sox and only think of him as a Yankee) - but he was exciting to watch. You never knew for sure if he'd strike out 20 or not. I wish I was old enough to remember Tiant. I'm sure he was a blast to watch, too. Yup. Koji seemed automatic to me, too. I never sweated when he came in. It just felt like a formality that he pitch. Nobody else has ever come close as a Sox closer for me. “And he punches out a couple guys just to stay in shape.”-Eck
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Post by James Dunne on May 19, 2019 22:10:49 GMT -5
I just took a minute to go over the 2013 Red Sox b-ref page and man... that was a weirder team than you probably remember. What is the term for when good results have the effect of positively reinforcing bad decisions, leading to those results diminishing very quickly? The 2013 season being followed by Ben Cherington's total disaster of a 2014 calendar year feels like it deserves a case study of some kind.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 19, 2019 22:12:41 GMT -5
I would say in about 4 years the Sox will/should be honoring the 2013 team. I hope Koji makes it to that or at least to his Red Sox HOF induction ceremony given that he pitched 4 years with the team - he should definitely make the Red Sox Hall of Fame in which the minimum is 3 years with the Red Sox. I'd just like to see him again at some point. He set the gold standard of what virtual closer perfection looked like. I still can't wrap my head around his 101K/9 BB (2 intentional) ratio. I never felt a lead was more safe in the 9th than at any point in my long fandom than I did in 2013 with Koji. He was a total joy to watch. I'd say my first favorite was Pedro and my second favorite was Koji. Somehow he came in even ahead of Clemens, who was a lot of fun to watch when he was a Red Sox (a lot of people here don't remember Roger as a Red Sox and only think of him as a Yankee) - but he was exciting to watch. You never knew for sure if he'd strike out 20 or not. I wish I was old enough to remember Tiant. I'm sure he was a blast to watch, too. Yup. Koji seemed automatic to me, too. I never sweated when he came in. It just felt like a formality that he pitch. Nobody else has ever come close as a Sox closer for me. “And he punches out a couple guys just to stay in shape.”-Eck The Eck would know. Koji's 2013 season would fit very comfortably in Eck's stat line on the back of his baseball card during his closing prime from 1988 - 1992. You almost wouldn't know which one belonged to Koji and which one was Eck's. Back then Eck was virtually automatic - and extremely quick about it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 19, 2019 22:36:54 GMT -5
I just took a minute to go over the 2013 Red Sox b-ref page and man... that was a weirder team than you probably remember. What is the term for when good results have the effect of positively reinforcing bad decisions, leading to those results diminishing very quickly? The 2013 season being followed by Ben Cherington's total disaster of a 2014 calendar year feels like it deserves a case study of some kind. Don't know the term for it, but 2013 was easily the most shocking World title (I guess you can argue for the 2004 Red Sox when the 9th inning of Game 4 ALCS started), but when you look at the moves they made - none of them scream out "This is going to make them World Champions!" I mean signing Victorino who was on the downside of his career and usually injured by then to a 3 year deal was colosally stupid. Signing Ryan Dempster wasn't exactly a stroke of genius either. Mike Napoli was a big signing, but he was a guy who had a degenerative hip. Stephen Drew was a guy with injury issues and he was injured to begin the season and he certainly wasn't the hitter his brother was although he had some similar offensive elements. Jonny Gomes and David Ross were veteran bench guys, journeyman ballplayers - that's all they were. The Sox were using an independent league LF with very little power in Daniel Nava. Salty was a catcher with some offensive promise but a lot of defensive issues. Nobody knew what to expect from John Lackey. Felix Doubront was a rookie with some upside, but not a big-time prospect. Clay Buchholz was Clay Buchholz (although he was awesome in 2013 - until being Buchholz he got hurt). You couldn't go into 2013 expecting the Sox to be much more than a cellar dweller. That championship came out of absolutely nowhere. You couldn't script things to go more perfectly given the abilities of the players than it did. Under no perfect world scenario could I envision this team winning 97 games and going 11-5 in the post-season. I think there was a lot to be said of the relief of not having to deal with Bobby V. John Farrell was actually seen as a breath of fresh air by the players at that point. And I have to believe they were as united as any Red Sox team. They played very inspired baseball given what went on around them. It was almost like they really were doing it for the city of Boston. David Ortiz played the part of 1979 Willie Stargell. And the one really awesome move that Cherington did make was signing that slightly built middle reliever, the one who never walked anybody and had a ridiculous 9-1 K ratio for his career. And then the Sox got lucky. They made a bad trade with Pittsburgh to give up a guy about to become a really good closer for an established closer who couldn't throw strikes and soon got injured when Cherington dealt Mark Melancon (buried by Bobby V after a bad start in 2012) for Joel Hanrahan. Fortunately, Cherington did have the foresight to make sure that a young 2b was included in the deal - Brock Holt, who didn't do much in 2013 for the Red Sox, but would at least recoup value over the years and help the Sox win their next Championship. And it was lucky that Hanrahan got hurt, then Bailey (another terrible deal - one I'm embarrassed to admit that I liked at the time because I thought Josh Reddick would always be a hacker) got hurt (again), and that opened the door (after Tazawa got a brief shot) at the closer's job for Uehara. After everything went right for the Sox in 2013, everything evened out and went wrong afterwards. At first he signed Edward Mujica (which I actually thought was a good signing as he had an excellent K/BB ratio even though he had lost his closer's job with the Cards), and he let Salty go (a good thing) but brought in a washed up disruptive hacker in Pierzynski. Then he gambled on Grady Sizemore, which was a bust and it screwed over Nava who got demoted in spring training despite batting .303 over a full season the year before. Ellsbury left, which actually proved to be a great decision by Cherington. All of the things that worked out in 2013 didn't in 2014. Napoli wasn't as good in 2014 and eventually they got nothing for him. Victorino was mostly injured and a bust afterwards (although nobody can complain about it!). The Sox were fortunate that Dempster retired and got the Sox off the financial hook. There was the Jon Lester lowball fiasco. I'll give Cherington credit for the deals he made in 2014 when things went sour. On the surface, they didn't look good, but they did kind of work out. He got Cespedes for Lester and then turned around Cespedes to Dombrowski in Detroit for Porcello. They failed to re-sign Lester. Cherington also failed to bring back Andrew Miller, whom he traded for E-Rod, which worked out, too. Even getting Heath Hembree for Peavy isn't a total fail. I hated the Lackey for Kelly and Craig deal. Craig was a total waste of money and Kelly was never what Cherington hoped he'd be - a front line starter, but Kelly did save his best for last - pitching lights out in the 2018 World Series so despite his aggravations - that deal actually worked out. It was the signings of Sandoval, Hanley, and Rusney that eventually sealed Cherington's fate.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 21, 2019 8:17:52 GMT -5
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 24, 2019 22:28:34 GMT -5
I still hate that Kimbrel deal 😑
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 25, 2019 6:55:35 GMT -5
Peter Gammons Verified account @pgammo 18m18 minutes ago More Mike Yastrzemski called up by Giants. Good start to the day
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Post by jbuttah on May 25, 2019 8:37:12 GMT -5
Dombrowski should not be allowed to make another trade for a reliever again.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 8:48:43 GMT -5
Dombrowski should not be allowed to make another trade for a reliever again. I wouldn't say that, as a solid reliever may be necessary to acquire at the trade deadline to make a push this year. However, I would put an emphasis on solid. I think a reliable guy that can eat some innings would do the trick. I don't think he should overpay for an elite reliever again. Like if a reliever would cost more than a 20-30 prospect and a 40-50 prospect, don't do it. Somebody from this MLB list or a similar quality is what I'm looking at: www.mlb.com/news/relief-pitchers-who-could-be-traded
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Post by jimed14 on May 27, 2019 12:54:50 GMT -5
Age 69. Sad news.
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Post by grandsalami on May 27, 2019 22:30:54 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 1, 2019 14:35:50 GMT -5
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Post by kingstephanos on Jun 1, 2019 18:46:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the recommendation... great article.
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