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What to do about Pablo? (7/14 edit: DFAed)
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Post by thursty on Apr 14, 2017 23:46:45 GMT -5
As I see it, the time is coming when Pablo's time is up. Obviously, there are no good options, just less bad ones. I'll list the options as I see them - Do nothing yet; SSS, yada, yada, any such talk now is hysterical
- Turn him into a (long) platoon player, facing only RH starters
- Trade him; obviously we're talking eating a huge chunk of $, he's owed ~ $55m by say end of April
I think the defensive decline is irreversible and makes the left side of the infield porous. He just can't be allowed to hit against LHP in any critical moment, and he's not exactly an ideal utility part-time player. His baserunning is unmentionable. Could Dombrowski pull off another Houdini escape like he did with his Fielder albatross? Where he ate even more ($60+ IIRC) but got something quite useful in return (Kinsler). Sadly, Sandoval I think is just a player who's aged prematurely and there's a better player right now on the roster, i.e. Hernandez
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Post by thursty on Apr 15, 2017 0:04:12 GMT -5
Here's one trade possibility that may be realistic.
Trade him to the A's for Trevor Plouffe, where you eat all but $10m or so of his remaining contract; you structure it so that the A's pay the equivalent of Plouffe's $5m contract this year, so there are no CBT implications for this year's team (nor for the A's).
You would then split time between Plouffe/Hernandez at 3B (not a strict R/L platoon, more like half-and-half), and jettison Rutledge.
Plouffe would add power, but probably not much defense.
The A's probably signed Plouffe with hopes of moving him at the trade deadline, so they would get in return 2.5 years of an opportunity to move Sandoval at the most opportune time of their choosing. The Red Sox could throw in something like Trey Ball as a sweetener.
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Post by telluricrook on Apr 15, 2017 0:29:05 GMT -5
He needs to change his approach! How about having him take the first pitch in every AB for the time being. The first pitch to him is out of the strikezone evrerytime this season.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 15, 2017 0:47:17 GMT -5
It's just a shame we didn't sign Plouffe to begin with.
That being said it's way too early. I never worry about performance until the weather warms up.
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Post by dmaineah on Apr 15, 2017 11:50:10 GMT -5
Swihart should be playing 3B in Pawtucket as well as Catching
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Post by Coreno on Apr 15, 2017 11:59:51 GMT -5
Swihart should be playing 3B in Pawtucket as well as Catching No.
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Post by jdb on Apr 15, 2017 14:29:45 GMT -5
Brett Lawrie's still out there i believe. I think Pablo will get until the end of May and we probably get a stop gap until Devers is ready.
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Post by telson13 on Apr 15, 2017 14:30:03 GMT -5
Swihart should be playing 3B in Pawtucket as well as Catching No. Yes. And by yes, I mean "no." Swihart is a C. Devers is in AA. Swihart needs to focus on catching, only. I think Sandoval gets until the end of April. At that point, yeah, they need to dump him. I like Hernandez in general, and I think he can play a more than adequate defensive 3b and hit well enough to be a viable every-day player. He might just be average, but that's a lot better than Panda is right now, and may ever be again. The Plouffe idea works for me.
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 15, 2017 14:49:37 GMT -5
Yes. And by yes, I mean "no." Swihart is a C. Devers is in AA. Swihart needs to focus on catching, only. I think Sandoval gets until the end of April. At that point, yeah, they need to dump him. I like Hernandez in general, and I think he can play a more than adequate defensive 3b and hit well enough to be a viable every-day player. He might just be average, but that's a lot better than Panda is right now, and may ever be again. The Plouffe idea works for me. Telson I usually agree with you but Pablo will turn it around before long IMO. The instinct for survival is strong. I think that he is especially anxious and that is hurting his pitch selection...if there is any. So far we have seen any number of at bats where not one strike was thrown to him. If this changes for the better, he will be OK. If not, then he will be traded for pennies to a team needing offense that thinks it can morph him.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 15, 2017 15:15:48 GMT -5
The Sox are going to give more than a week or a month to decide his fate. I don't believe there is one team that would take him at this point, even if the Sox took in all the salary. Come trade deadline, that could change based on his performance.
Personally, I want to see him get his hacks. He missed a whole year, I think there is a chance for 1 - 2 WAR player. Honestly, in all likelihood, he probably is playing for the Sox the rest of the year, if not his contract. That's was paying someone that kind of AAV creates.
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 15, 2017 15:30:54 GMT -5
The Sox are going to give more than a week or a month to decide his fate. I don't believe there is one team that would take him at this point, even if the Sox took in all the salary. Come trade deadline, that could change based on his performance. Personally, I want to see him get his hacks. He missed a whole year, I think there is a chance for 1 - 2 WAR player. Honestly, in all likelihood, he probably is playing for the Sox the rest of the year, if not his contract. That's was paying someone that kind of AAV creates. Yeah the Sox are going to give him a long leash for all the reasons noted. I believe this guy could be a .300 hitter with 20+ hrs. if he only had strike zone judgement (apologies to the Scarecrow).
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Post by m1keyboots on Apr 15, 2017 16:12:31 GMT -5
Whatever the first answer was where you mentioned it's halfway through April on a guy that missed an entire year.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 15, 2017 19:07:20 GMT -5
Pablo ripped the ball twice today for outs. They were hit over 105 mph.
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Post by sarasoxer on Apr 15, 2017 20:16:03 GMT -5
Pablo ripped the ball twice today for outs. They were hit over 105 mph. Both times he 'worked' the count as well as he could and got good pitches to hit. If he does that consistently, he will be a big asset. I would be on his case if he relapsed on the conditioning end but he hit the ball with authority from spring to date when he swung at strikes.
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Post by telson13 on Apr 15, 2017 20:43:49 GMT -5
Yes. And by yes, I mean "no." Swihart is a C. Devers is in AA. Swihart needs to focus on catching, only. I think Sandoval gets until the end of April. At that point, yeah, they need to dump him. I like Hernandez in general, and I think he can play a more than adequate defensive 3b and hit well enough to be a viable every-day player. He might just be average, but that's a lot better than Panda is right now, and may ever be again. The Plouffe idea works for me. Telson I usually agree with you but Pablo will turn it around before long IMO. The instinct for survival is strong. I think that he is especially anxious and that is hurting his pitch selection...if there is any. So far we have seen any number of at bats where not one strike was thrown to him. If this changes for the better, he will be OK. If not, then he will be traded for pennies to a team needing offense that thinks it can morph him. Yeah, I probably should have said end of May. I agree wholeheartedly that he's been overzealous and it's hurting him. I do think there's the potential for a minor rebound (~1.5 WAR player), too. But I'd honestly rather not see him out there indefinitely, and certainly I'd rather see Hernandez getting on-field development time and building value if they're going to be putting up similar value. But, yes, I think a more extended timeframe is probably more sensible. I don't think a crummy Panda performance over two months (worst-case, even) is going to be the deciding factor in this team's playoff hopes.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 15, 2017 23:58:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I probably should have said end of May. I agree wholeheartedly that he's been overzealous and it's hurting him. I do think there's the potential for a minor rebound (~1.5 WAR player), too. But I'd honestly rather not see him out there indefinitely, and certainly I'd rather see Hernandez getting on-field development time and building value if they're going to be putting up similar value. But, yes, I think a more extended timeframe is probably more sensible. I don't think a crummy Panda performance over two months (worst-case, even) is going to be the deciding factor in this team's playoff hopes. It is not going to happen Take a step back. He's a 19.5/milliion dollar player, who has had plenty of major league success. We should want him to be the player he was. The risk of seeing whether he is the kind of player who was a part of multiple championship teams, is better than the alternate at this point. I get the frustration, and I think you are be open minded about his possible replacement for the position. However, he is going to get every chance this year, we are going to sink or swing with him, very likely.
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Post by costpet on Apr 16, 2017 7:00:40 GMT -5
If I was a pitcher, I'd never throw him a strike. He'll get himself out eventually. Can you imagine Ted Williams, who never swung at a ball, watching him?
PS. I've read that Ted never checked his swing. He either swung or not.
Pablo is doing no good for the club this year. He has to go. Just let him go and forget about it.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 16, 2017 8:10:25 GMT -5
Too early to be making that call. I was one of the first to say he had a major problem last year but watching his ABs, he's generally making solid contact so, there's hope. He only really needs to be an overall below average third baseman on this team until the replacements (at least a Rutledge platoon) are ready.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 16, 2017 9:14:19 GMT -5
I'll just repost this here:
One other thing on Pablo... he definitely frustrated me in the bases loaded AB, but what I took from it was that he hustled his ass off out of the box and down the line when he hit that little dribbler. He's working hard and trying to turn things around. He's taken full responsibility for his problems last year and said all the right things about earning his way back. As fans, I think we should support that. People and players aren't perfect and in this day and age with so much negativity around in and out of sports it's some what refreshing to see a guy like him battling hard to do the right thing. We should want him to succeed on multiple levels.
Obviously in a few weeks if he's still hitting under .200 then the Sox need to make a move with regards to him. Not now tho
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Post by costpet on Apr 16, 2017 9:15:29 GMT -5
I'd prefer Hernandez at 3rd this year. Better defense, better base running, better contact at the plate. Pablo's days are over. It's right in front of you.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Apr 16, 2017 11:38:11 GMT -5
I'll just repost this here: One other thing on Pablo... he definitely frustrated me in the bases loaded AB, but what I took from it was that he hustled his ass off out of the box and down the line when he hit that little dribbler. He's working hard and trying to turn things around. He's taken full responsibility for his problems last year and said all the right things about earning his way back. As fans, I think we should support that. People and players aren't perfect and in this day and age with so much negativity around in and out of sports it's some what refreshing to see a guy like him battling hard to do the right thing. We should want him to succeed on multiple levels. Obviously in a few weeks if he's still hitting under .200 then the Sox need to make a move with regards to him. Not now tho Love the first paragraph and agree. The last line..I don't think it will play out like that.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,754
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Post by nomar on Apr 16, 2017 12:23:22 GMT -5
His Hard% is high and his BABIP is insanely low. He deserves more time.
He is 21st in the MLB in average exit velocity, right ahead of Paul Goldschmidt.
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Post by manfred on Apr 16, 2017 12:26:32 GMT -5
I have little faith, but it seems too soon to do anything. He has hit some balls hard (he's not Allen Craig or Rusney yet). And any "doung something" moves will create hardship. It might come to that, but if there is a chance he can be even a decent platoon player, it is worth giving him far more time.
Also: the full lineup hasn't even played together yet. Pablo is not good, but he is not to blame for general woes. It'll be easier to be patient when Mookie gets going after being so sickand JBJ is back.
And Pablo can't pitch.
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Post by telson13 on Apr 16, 2017 13:39:01 GMT -5
Yeah, I probably should have said end of May. I agree wholeheartedly that he's been overzealous and it's hurting him. I do think there's the potential for a minor rebound (~1.5 WAR player), too. But I'd honestly rather not see him out there indefinitely, and certainly I'd rather see Hernandez getting on-field development time and building value if they're going to be putting up similar value. But, yes, I think a more extended timeframe is probably more sensible. I don't think a crummy Panda performance over two months (worst-case, even) is going to be the deciding factor in this team's playoff hopes. It is not going to happen Take a step back. He's a 19.5/milliion dollar player, who has had plenty of major league success. We should want him to be the player he was. The risk of seeing whether he is the kind of player who was a part of multiple championship teams, is better than the alternate at this point. I get the frustration, and I think you are be open minded about his possible replacement for the position. However, he is going to get every chance this year, we are going to sink or swing with him, very likely. Sure. I'm not saying what I think will happen, but rather what I'd like to see (if he continues to struggle).
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Post by telson13 on Apr 16, 2017 13:41:04 GMT -5
His Hard% is high and his BABIP is insanely low. He deserves more time. He is 21st in the MLB in average exit velocity, right ahead of Paul Goldschmidt. Good points that belie the small sample. I'm actually even more encouraged that, when he settles down and the excitement of playing again wears off, he'll be an average MLBer, which is more than sufficient on this team.
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