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How long should the Red Sox wait on JBJ? (This Year)
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Post by orion09 on Mar 6, 2019 23:20:47 GMT -5
Jackie’s got above-avg speed (75th %ile or so in MLB) but he’s not a burner. His CF defense is likely to age well as he depends on outstanding instincts and superb routes with a great first step. Like 75%ile overall, but even more crazily... bottom 15% or so among CF (per Savant). And yet he might be the best defensive CF in the game! Agree about the aging well. Was thinking the other day about Jim Edmonds as a potential defensive comp. Another guy with well below-avg speed for a CF who relied on great reads and instincts. He had injury problems, but other than that aged well - Fangraphs rates him as essentially a net positive defender until his age 37 season. (Also has like 65 career WAR - deserved better than a first ballot HOF exit.)
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Post by telson13 on Mar 7, 2019 0:29:07 GMT -5
Jackie’s got above-avg speed (75th %ile or so in MLB) but he’s not a burner. His CF defense is likely to age well as he depends on outstanding instincts and superb routes with a great first step. Like 75%ile overall, but even more crazily... bottom 15% or so among CF (per Savant). And yet he might be the best defensive CF in the game! Agree about the aging well. Was thinking the other day about Jim Edmonds as a potential defensive comp. Another guy with well below-avg speed for a CF who relied on great reads and instincts. He had injury problems, but other than that aged well - Fangraphs rates him as essentially a net positive defender until his age 37 season. (Also has like 65 career WAR - deserved better than a first ballot HOF exit.) Wow, yeah, that’s actually a really terrific call re: Edmonds. I’d never even thought of it but it’s dead-on. He didn’t get credit for being as good of a defender as he was because of his lack of speed and the stupid “he’s trying to make highlight catches” b.s. (and I think those highlight catches were exactly because of instincts allowing him to *make* them), but yeah...he was super dependable out there for a LONG time. Just serves to strengthen my confidence in JBJ long-term. Playing solid defense in CF at 37 is a pretty rare thing, but I think those *types* of players are the best bet for it. Even more reason for the Sox to extend Jackie now before he starts hitting like Edmonds, too.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 7, 2019 0:34:23 GMT -5
Also...Edmonds should be in the HOF. Absolutely. The idea of Harold Baines getting in and Edmonds falling off after one go-round...ugh. Looking at his fg page, Edmonds had a six-year stretch where he was over 6 WAR each year, and retired with a 132 wRC+. If he’d gotten his due credit for actually *being* a terrific defender and not just trying to look like one, he’d be in there. That narrative always pissed me off.
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 7, 2019 8:41:06 GMT -5
The comments on Edmunds caused me to go look at his career and the first thing that pops out to me are his numbers after the age of 30. Very impressive especially when you consider he was like Fred Lynn diving all over the place in CF which you would think would take its toll. To me it highlights how difficult it is to evaluate the signing of UFAs, bottom line it is a crap shoot. I laugh at the Yankees with the Ellsbury deal, Angels with Pujols, thankfully the Sox have just one more year of Panda weighing them down. Fingers crossed on Price being at least close to what he is owed.
As a former rotisserie player I can't help but look at the Sox roster and see mostly players being paid less than their value which is a great sign for success, especially with the highest payroll.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 7, 2019 9:34:37 GMT -5
Did anyone watch JBJ with a mic for yesterday's game on ESPN? He was out in CF talking to the guys in the booth and he was moving during every pitch, always in a different direction. It's something that you don't get to see very often because the camera isn't on him before the ball is hit to CF, but it sure is something to see even in a spring training game. The dedication he has to defense is kind of crazy.
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Post by p23w on Mar 10, 2019 10:57:09 GMT -5
Did anyone watch JBJ with a mic for yesterday's game on ESPN? He was out in CF talking to the guys in the booth and he was moving during every pitch, always in a different direction. It's something that you don't get to see very often because the camera isn't on him before the ball is hit to CF, but it sure is something to see even in a spring training game. The dedication he has to defense is kind of crazy. That in nutshell is why viewing live baseball broadcasts are so uninteresting. (That and the mindless chatter from the play by play orators). The technology exist to have fixed cameras on the position players and PIP on your smart TV. When that happens sign ,me up tp subscribe, not before.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Mar 10, 2019 11:30:09 GMT -5
That's actually a great idea for getting the younger generation back into baseball. If MLB-TV would enable viewers to select whom to follow with PIP and even choose their own replay views ti would make watching the game more akin to video games as well as give vires something to do during breaks. Of course you'd have to always have the main feed on to keep advertisers happy if it were on subscription service, but it does seem like an obvious direction to move. Even better than "smellavision"
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 10, 2019 11:53:43 GMT -5
Honestly, I've absolutely loved the players being micced up during the game. Last night, I watched the game where Mookie was practicing his golf swing in between pitches. I don't think I've ever watched a DVR'd spring training game before. I feel like I barely know some of these guys' personalities and that really changes things. Mookie was a freaking riot. I really liked listening to JBJ and Holt as well along with a bunch of players on other teams.
I know they couldn't do that during real games, but I'm really enjoying it for spring training.
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Post by dmaineah on Apr 11, 2019 20:41:17 GMT -5
The way JBJ looks maybe Chavis should be playing the Outfield & not second base. Can the Sox afford to give JBJ more then 100 - 150 ABs if he continues like this?
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 11, 2019 21:42:49 GMT -5
The way JBJ looks maybe Chavis should be playing the Outfield & not second base. Can the Sox afford to give JBJ more then 100 - 150 ABs if he continues like this? Like clockwork. smh And have you ever seen Chavis play the outfield? Maybe while they're at it, they should remove Chris Sale, Nathan Eovaldi, E-Rod, Rick Porcello, and David Price from the rotation.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 11, 2019 21:49:44 GMT -5
The way JBJ looks maybe Chavis should be playing the Outfield & not second base. Can the Sox afford to give JBJ more then 100 - 150 ABs if he continues like this? Like clockwork. smh And have you ever seen Chavis play the outfield? Maybe while they're at it, they should remove Chris Sale, Nathan Eovaldi, E-Rod, Rick Porcello, and David Price from the rotation.
Just like a clock, if you keep saying every minute that it is 8:35, eventually it will be 8:35. Someday Jackie Bradley will go into a slump, and he won't break out of it. The Decline comes for us all, Base Ball men and civilians alike. And when it does, dmaineah will be here to tell us all "SEE! I TOLD YOU IT WAS 8:35!!"
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Post by dmaineah on Apr 11, 2019 21:56:37 GMT -5
Like clockwork. smh And have you ever seen Chavis play the outfield? Maybe while they're at it, they should remove Chris Sale, Nathan Eovaldi, E-Rod, Rick Porcello, and David Price from the rotation.
Just like a clock, if you keep saying every minute that it is 8:35, eventually it will be 8:35. Someday Jackie Bradley will go into a slump, and he won't break out of it. The Decline comes for us all, Base Ball men and civilians alike. And when it does, dmaineah will be here to tell us all "SEE! I TOLD YOU IT WAS 8:35!!" It's telling the way you both avoided answering the question asked.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 11, 2019 22:10:30 GMT -5
On the first page of this thread, you advocated dumping Jackie Bradley in favor of Steve Selsky.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 11, 2019 22:13:07 GMT -5
Just like a clock, if you keep saying every minute that it is 8:35, eventually it will be 8:35. Someday Jackie Bradley will go into a slump, and he won't break out of it. The Decline comes for us all, Base Ball men and civilians alike. And when it does, dmaineah will be here to tell us all "SEE! I TOLD YOU IT WAS 8:35!!" It's telling the way you both avoided answering the question asked. We're not avoiding anything. The man has had about 40 at-bats. Excuse me if I don't get worked up over that. JBJ is basically a .230 - .260 hitter and that's where he'll be when the season is over. He'll have bad slumps. He'll have his epiphany and hit well for awhile. This isn't new. The Red Sox put up with it because: 1) His defense is gold glove caliber, and when you put it all together he's an asset. 2) He doesn't make a ridiculous amount of money 3) And the closest Sox OF prospect is a converted infielder playing A ball. Duran. Your solution is to stick an inexperienced Chavis (virtually no outfield experience) in LF, and move Benni to CF where he's not anywhere near as good defensively as he is in left? Do you care at all about outfield defense? Does that matter to you? It's as crazy as the suggestion I read today somewhere else where somebody actually wanted to bench JBJ, move Benni to CF and stick Nunez in LF.
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Post by Canseco on Apr 11, 2019 22:18:33 GMT -5
This conversation is happening again? How many seasons does Jackie have to go through his slumps and blistering hot streaks—all while playing exceptional defense and being an above average base runner—before some just accept that for who he is?
It’s an almost certainty that JBJ, once again, will end up having a very positive impact on a contending (eventually) ball club.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Apr 11, 2019 23:18:45 GMT -5
Ohh man dmaineah. Lol. Good stuff. You're funny and consistent at least.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 11, 2019 23:46:22 GMT -5
JBJ will start hitting about the time Moreland stops hitting. It's like clockwork every year.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 11, 2019 23:48:13 GMT -5
JBJ will start hitting about the time Moreland stops hitting. It's like clockwork every year. Good thing they have Pearce for when Moreland stops hitting.
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Post by dmaineah on Apr 12, 2019 3:32:55 GMT -5
They've had 2 great opportunities to trade JBJ, when he was in AA & after the 2016 season. Now he has no value as a trade candidate. He has an option left. He should be in AAA. Mookie (not Benintendi) should be in CF. Benintendi should be in RF. Martinez, or Holt or Travis or Lin or yes, even Nunez, Moreland or Pearce should be playing LF. Chavis should have been playing LF in the Minors since last year with am eye on bringing him up at some point this year. But, as long as JBJ is on the Active Roster...he should start. He should be sent down. But he won't be. If he had any value he should be traded. But he doesn't, so he won't be. So here he is, in the big league's unable to lay a bunt down against the shift hitting routine 5 hoppers to the second baseman over & over & over. It's just sickening. What a waste of a 25 man roster spot.
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Post by brendan98 on Apr 12, 2019 8:17:37 GMT -5
They've had 2 great opportunities to trade JBJ, when he was in AA & after the 2016 season. Now he has no value as a trade candidate. He has an option left. He should be in AAA. Mookie (not Benintendi) should be in CF. Benintendi should be in RF. Martinez, or Holt or Travis or Lin or yes, even Nunez, Moreland or Pearce should be playing LF. Chavis should have been playing LF in the Minors since last year with am eye on bringing him up at some point this year. But, as long as JBJ is on the Active Roster...he should start. He should be sent down. But he won't be. If he had any value he should be traded. But he doesn't, so he won't be. So here he is, in the big league's unable to lay a bunt down against the shift hitting routine 5 hoppers to the second baseman over & over & over. It's just sickening. What a waste of a 25 man roster spot. Do you think possibly, the reason the Sox didn’t trade JBJ was because they actually value him as a player? He is as gifted an outfielder as the Sox have ever had, and an extremely streaky hitter, that at the end of the day, season, and probably at the end of his career will end up right about league average offensively. Are his cold streaks frustrating? Absolutely. Do his hot streaks make up for them? Maybe not, but his timing was pretty great last year, I’m pretty sure that was JBJ that won ALCS MVP, and I don’t think they gave it to him for his stellar defense. Unfortunately, for those of us who enjoy watching and appreciate JBJ, I’m guessing the Sox will let him play out his contract and walk after the 2020 season, hitting free agency at the same time as Mookie is not ideal for JBJ staying in Boston. Dmaineah, you will surely be glad to see him go, but I am pretty sure that everyone on the pitching staff will feel differently, and that probably says a lot.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 12, 2019 10:17:51 GMT -5
They've had 2 great opportunities to trade JBJ, when he was in AA & after the 2016 season. Now he has no value as a trade candidate. He has an option left. He should be in AAA. Mookie (not Benintendi) should be in CF. Benintendi should be in RF. Martinez, or Holt or Travis or Lin or yes, even Nunez, Moreland or Pearce should be playing LF. Chavis should have been playing LF in the Minors since last year with am eye on bringing him up at some point this year. But, as long as JBJ is on the Active Roster...he should start. He should be sent down. But he won't be. If he had any value he should be traded. But he doesn't, so he won't be. So here he is, in the big league's unable to lay a bunt down against the shift hitting routine 5 hoppers to the second baseman over & over & over. It's just sickening. What a waste of a 25 man roster spot. Funny how you have no response when somebody ever mentions Bradley's defense. You might have missed last season, too, when he was the ALCS MVP. Perhaps you forgot his game 3 game tying HR in the World Series. The guy is about average to a little below offensively when you measure his offense and very well above average when you measure his defense. All in all you get a guy who's a bit above average as a total player, which has plenty of value. For you to say that he has no trade value is asinine. For you to think you can slap any schnook in LF and think that moving to Mookie to CF and Benni to RF isn't going to impact the defense is ludicrous. Eventually the Sox will either trade Bradley before the 2020 season or simply let him stay with the Sox thru 2020 and probably let him walk as a free agent as they try to re-sign Mookie. The man is an average to above average player when you weigh everything in - including defense, which doesn't exist at all in your world. It's amazing how many hits that OF took away last season, yet you have absolutely no recognition of that whatsoever. The best defensive OF in Sox history, or at least since Lewis/Speaker/Hooper - one of the big strengths of a Championship 119 win team and you want to break it up. Amazing.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 12, 2019 12:50:34 GMT -5
They've had 2 great opportunities to trade JBJ, when he was in AA & after the 2016 season. Now he has no value as a trade candidate. He has an option left. He should be in AAA. Mookie (not Benintendi) should be in CF. Benintendi should be in RF. Martinez, or Holt or Travis or Lin or yes, even Nunez, Moreland or Pearce should be playing LF. Chavis should have been playing LF in the Minors since last year with am eye on bringing him up at some point this year. But, as long as JBJ is on the Active Roster...he should start. He should be sent down. But he won't be. If he had any value he should be traded. But he doesn't, so he won't be. So here he is, in the big league's unable to lay a bunt down against the shift hitting routine 5 hoppers to the second baseman over & over & over. It's just sickening. What a waste of a 25 man roster spot. I just have to ask what value does a Championship mean to you? His ALCS MVP shows his value during last year's run, he had three huge HRs. Would you have been happy trading him and not winning a Championship?
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Post by incandenza on Apr 12, 2019 12:52:11 GMT -5
They've had 2 great opportunities to trade JBJ, when he was in AA & after the 2016 season. Now he has no value as a trade candidate. He has an option left. He should be in AAA. Mookie (not Benintendi) should be in CF. Benintendi should be in RF. Martinez, or Holt or Travis or Lin or yes, even Nunez, Moreland or Pearce should be playing LF. Chavis should have been playing LF in the Minors since last year with am eye on bringing him up at some point this year. But, as long as JBJ is on the Active Roster...he should start. He should be sent down. But he won't be. If he had any value he should be traded. But he doesn't, so he won't be. So here he is, in the big league's unable to lay a bunt down against the shift hitting routine 5 hoppers to the second baseman over & over & over. It's just sickening. What a waste of a 25 man roster spot. Dumping JBJ to get Lin's or Nunez' bats into the lineup, and playing them out of position on defense? This can't possibly be a sincere argument, can it? The weird thing about this obsession is that JBJ is so, so easy to root for. Just watching his defense over the last few years has brought me so much joy. He even seems like a good and decent guy. More than anyone else on the team, probably, I want him to do great. So it just seems so strange to me to obsessively want to get rid of him.
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art
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Post by art on Apr 12, 2019 13:09:04 GMT -5
Did anyone watch JBJ with a mic for yesterday's game on ESPN? He was out in CF talking to the guys in the booth and he was moving during every pitch, always in a different direction. It's something that you don't get to see very often because the camera isn't on him before the ball is hit to CF, but it sure is something to see even in a spring training game. The dedication he has to defense is kind of crazy. That in nutshell is why viewing live baseball broadcasts are so uninteresting. (That and the mindless chatter from the play by play orators). The technology exist to have fixed cameras on the position players and PIP on your smart TV. When that happens sign ,me up tp subscribe, not before. BTW, the radio broadcast last night was terrific. Sean McDonough on with Merloni and Joe. Great repartee. Some very witty comments by Sean without drifting far from the game.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 12, 2019 13:32:49 GMT -5
That in nutshell is why viewing live baseball broadcasts are so uninteresting. (That and the mindless chatter from the play by play orators). The technology exist to have fixed cameras on the position players and PIP on your smart TV. When that happens sign ,me up tp subscribe, not before. BTW, the radio broadcast last night was terrific. Sean McDonough on with Merloni and Joe. Great repartee. Some very witty comments by Sean without drifting far from the game. How I wish they would swap Sean McDonough and Dave O'Brien. Nothing against Dave O'Brien, but he has a great voice for radio (as does McDonough), but I enjoyed it a lot when Sean McDonough was the TV guy for the Sox for about 16 years or whatever it was. It would be fun watching him with Remy and Eckersley. Granted McDonough is only part-time, but it's a swap I wish they'd make. As it is these days, I don't often listen to Joe Castiglione as much on the radio. I'm usually catching the game on TV instead most of the time - or at least at night anyways.
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